EAX in Vista with Realtek???

S

Silvers24

Gawd
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
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I really need some help..so I just finally realized I am not getting 5.1 sound using Vista with games which use DirectSound 3D or whatever previous games use.

I found out by seeing the EAX features turned off in F.E.A.R.
So I google like hell, find that Realtek has this 3D SoundBack software.
I have it enabled, however it STILL is greyed out from me using it in game.

And from what I can hear, I still have no surround!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Any info?

(I use REALTEK HD, NOT Creative, thus Alchemy DOES NOT HELP. Figured i'd make this very clear..)
 
I'm assuming you've already checked this, but make sure to select 5.1 selected in the audio console via the Vista Control panel. Vista is not like XP was. This sound setting is global and needs to be done through the operating system first.
 
Yes I do. But the problem is, I am going through The Toslink Opticle Cable out.
Thus I do not get to select what formate I want.
And is connected to my Sony 5.1 surround.
 
S/PDIF (optical) only supports stereo un-encoded streams. To get 5.1 over S/PDIF, you need to use Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect. If your Realtek codec doesn't feature either, you'll be unable to output un-encoded 5.1 audio via S/PDIF.
 
OK update.
I found out my Realtek is ALC888
So I am screwed correct? At least when it comes to gaming.
Is there no way to do true 5.1 surround for games with this on-board audio? OVER Toslink/S/PDIF?
I know I can achieve this with DVD/Blu-Ray via the settings of Cyberlink, but that is it?

I am stuck with 2.1 surround for gaming?

If true. Can someone suggest a good Sound Card which will allow 5.1 surround gaming via Toslink Opticle? (If this is my only way)

Is there a 5.1 Analog to Toslink Converter?
 
You are correct, to get true 5.1, you need a DD Live/DTS Connect capable sound card and then run S/PDIF out from that. That card will encode the games sound into a 5.1 AC3 which will be decoded by your receiver.

I'm not sure of the best specific card though. Good luck.
 
phide said:
S/PDIF (optical) only supports stereo un-encoded streams. To get 5.1 over S/PDIF, you need to use Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect. If your Realtek codec doesn't feature either, you'll be unable to output un-encoded 5.1 audio via S/PDIF.
Click to expand...
I agree with this, S/PDIF is 2.0 Stereo most of the time. I have done my own research about this a few weeks back, and most motherboard only support 2.0, and I really mean 99% of them. Dolby Digital Live in Realtek chips was only introduced very recently, but still new motherboard don't support it, there are very few models that do.

And about EAX, that technology is own by Creative. No matter how much software you download, or equipment you buy, if won't get real EAX unless you get a soundcard with an X-Fi chip either from Creative or Auzentech. Current soundcards, including some from ASUS, claim they support EAX. However, that is not real EAX, it is emulated. I have heard both versions, because I own a X-Fi XtremeMusic as well as a Asus HDAV1.3 Deluxe, and I can tell you they don't even come close. At least not for gaming.

If games is your passion, then get a soundcard with an X-Fi chip. This is a great time, and they are cheap too. The new models from Creative and Auzentech have digital connectors, so you can connect that to your receiver or whatever you are connecting that S/PDIF cable to. Also, they have Dolby Digital Live, so you can convert 5.1 games into Dolby Digital, and get real 5.1 that way like Phide said.

If you really want to consider getting a soundcard, and you are sure your computer has an open PCI-Express slot, then consider this one: http://www.antonline.com/p_30SB088200000-GP_594705.htm
That is an X-Fi Titanium for $82.34 + Shipping. I don't know about you, but to me, it is a very good deal for your needs.
 
I love you guys. Always so helpful. :)

Ok, I had always entertained the thought of a Sound Card, but at the time I thought I was set.
Later on, realizing my Speakers had Opticle In, I ditched my desk based PC setup, and turned into a TV/Monitor Dual Type thing, thinking my Opticle out would support 5.1. Only today has it dawned on me, by heavy google, and reading all you comments. I should have gotten that Sound Card.

Can I get a sound card for around $50, instead of $83? Right now I am strapped for cash, then again I can always ask in the FS forum maybe someone might have mercy on me.

But I do need that 5.1 surround. I can't stand stereo. No matter how good it sounds. Haha.
 
Well, how exactly are you running that 5.1 setup? Either...

A) You have the 5 speakers + Subwoofer connected to a receiver, and then from the receiver to the computer by optical.

B) You have a HTIB (home theather in a box), which basically means you purchased the entire setup as a combo.

If you have setup A, then what is the model number of the receiver. Some receiver support "Pro Logic IIx" and "NEO:6" upmixing. That will simulate 5.1 from a 2.0 signal. Of course, that won't be real 5.1, nor will it give you EAX effects, but at least it will use all your speakers including the surrounds. This is a temporal solution until you can afford the X-Fi, because it will be totally worth it.

If you have setup B, then which HTIB model are you using. Cheap ones normally come with a primitive receiver only capable of giving you 5.1 and that's it. They won't upmix anything, and if they do, is only All-Channel-Stereo. That upmixing will also give you sound in all speakers, which sounds great for music, but it's just horrible and annoying for movies and games. Basically, you are screwed, and more then ever need a soundcard.

Ok, let us know what you have. Hopefully you can get an X-Fi for cheaper. But trust me, that is a pretty good deal, the high-end soundcards hover around $200.
 
http://s538.photobucket.com/albums/ff350/Silvers24/SurroundSony/
This is my Surround Sound System. Hopefully the image gallery is good. Haha.

This is my currrent PC Setup:
http://s538.photobucket.com/albums/ff350/Silvers24/Computer2TV/

One opticle Cord. Runs along my floor, into one of the three available Opticle In spots.

Although my Sony speakers cost a pretty big penny, I still don't know all about it.
Hell, now I am not even sure I have true HD Audio. (Although it has never failed to play a Blu-Ray movie at the highest end audio codec via PS3)
 
Have you considered using analogue?
If you get a decent soundcard, with digital you are still restricted to the quality of the DAC in your amp.
This will waste the quality you can achieve.

For example, I have an Onkyo 875 amp and a Prelude soundcard.
The Preludes analogue sounds better than using the DAC in the amp (digital) and this amp is a world apart from the one you use.

You cannot get true HD down optical unless it is stereo only.
The bandwidth isnt present to do multi channel HD audio.
 
I dunno how. I have a logitech 5.1 X something series Surround for PC.
But I don't use it because I can use my Sony surround, and if I can somehow do it, I can use all 5.
I was only able to use three speakers + the bass with my logitech due to not being able to put my back speakers well, in the back.
 
Silvers24 said:
http://s538.photobucket.com/albums/ff350/Silvers24/SurroundSony/
This is my Surround Sound System. Hopefully the image gallery is good. Haha.

This is my currrent PC Setup:
http://s538.photobucket.com/albums/ff350/Silvers24/Computer2TV/

One opticle Cord. Runs along my floor, into one of the three available Opticle In spots.

Although my Sony speakers cost a pretty big penny, I still don't know all about it.
Hell, now I am not even sure I have true HD Audio. (Although it has never failed to play a Blu-Ray movie at the highest end audio codec via PS3)
Click to expand...
Oh snap, my apologies man. For some reason the subscription feature wasn't warning me.

But Holy mother of Jesus, that screen is huge! Foolish me, in thinking 37" was big enough, lol.
Anyways, I see that 5.1 setup supports "Pro Logic II", and that is exactly what I was talking about. It's great, it's my favorite mode for Stereo sources to be honest. That will upmix the 2.0 signals from your computer, and will emulate 5.1, giving you sound in all speakers. So read the manual on how to activate it, because it does support it. Normally is labeled Modes or Effects in your remote control. If you have trouble finding it, let me know, and I can take a look at the online manual for you.
That will surely give you decent surround sound until you can afford an X-Fi. Trust me when I say it's worth every penny.

As far as TrueHD, you are not getting TrueHD, but uncompressed LPCM instead. The PS3 doesn't allow bit-streaming of the new formats, so it decodes it itself and sends LPCM. Of course, that's as long as you set the PS3 to "Linear PCM", under the A/V settings, and use a HDMI cable. But don't get me wrong, they are both pretty much identical, they are better than either DD, DD+, or DTS. Besides, your Sony doesn't support TrueHD anyways, so having the PS3 send LPCM is actually a good thing.

As far as Nenu comment about analog, that is unfortunately not an option for you. I do agree with him, some higher-end soundcards do provide better sound than most receivers while using analog. However, your Sony doesn't have multi-channel analog connectors, so you will never get better sound than what the DAC on it offers.

Ok my friend. There you go. If you have more question, let me know. And again, sorry for the delayed response.
 
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Thanks bro! You (as with the others) have been greatly helpfull.

Yeah man, I love my 60 inch. LMAO. I mainly use it for gaming, not much good as web surfing, but youtube in HD looks great :D.

Can't wait to try the PL 2. See how it does. Once I figure out how to see the LCD panel.

But that is good, my PS3 outputs LPCM and my surround never has a problem playing it.
 
Ok, this is a response to your PM. I'm posting it here because it might help other members in the future that might be in your same situation.

Silvers24 said:
Figured i'd just take it to PM.

So I just tried using PL II with FEAR and NFS Pro Street.

Neither games even simulated 5.1.
Weird thing is, I have PL II "Movies", and PL II "Music".
I had used them both, on both games. And it all played the same as if I didn't change it.

I don't get it?
Not to mention I have like 7 other audio configureations. most of which I dont know whats what.
Click to expand...
Hmm, that's doesn't make sense, it should work. I mean, you have already tried playing movies in your PS3 just fine, so you already know your setup is configured correctly for 5.1. I don't see why it wouldn't work fine as well using the optical cable from your PC. Besides, the PL II upmixing happens in the receiver, so it makes absolutely no difference what game you play, to your Sony, it's just sound.

Can you describe how it's not working? How are you testing it? Are you using PL II MOVIE for games?
Try throwing a grenade in front and close to you, and then run back really quick and see if you hear any sound from the back speakers. If you have a gamepad or wireless keyboard, that is even better, so you won't be running. You have to understand how PL II MOVIE works, in that it takes the already existing sound from the LEFT and RIGHT channels, and tries to mimics the Center and Surrounds. So basically the grenade explodes, you hear the the bang in the front, and milliseconds later in the back with parts missing. All it does is add delay, almost instant to not create echo, so your brain thinks the explosion expanded. But also removes some frequencies, which the technology thinks are dialogue and gunshots, and keeps them in the front like it should. Remember, it doesn't know what it's what (unlike real 5.1), it only predicts, so your results may greatly vary depending on the game.

A better way to test it is actually with music, instead of a game. PL II MUSIC mode does an exceptional job for music. It basically separates the instruments to the four speakers in the front and back, and isolates the voice to the Center speaker. This creates the impression that the LEFT and RIGHT speakers are the guitarists, with pretty much the same for the Surround speakers just to create depth, and the Center speaker is the lead singer.

PL II MUSIC is more stable, which makes it great for music, while PL II MOVIE is more dynamic, and better at recreating the movement in movies. Call me crazy, but that's how I feel they differ from each other. As far as other technologies in your Sony, most of them are irrelevant. The important ones are normally all the Dolby, DTS, Pro Logic, and NEO versions, as well as Studio-Mix. The rest are normally just proprietary DSP technologies from the manufacturer, and often are garbage. But hey, feel free to experiment with all of them, remember sound is very subjective.

If you still can't get it to work, double check you have set 2 Speakers in Control Panel, and in your applications. That will ensure it mixes all the channels, and sends 2.0 PCM to your Sony, because that's the limit of the Optical cable without DDL anyways.
However, if after doing this it doesn't work, I would suggest you try to play music using your PS3, and see who is the trouble maker. Make sure it's music, because we want to test how your Sony behaves with Stereo sources. If your Sony has some type of screen, you should see the same 2.0 PCM as with the PC. Try PL II MUSIC while the music is playing, and not in the menus. This is because the PS3 seems to default to 7.1 LPCM while in the menus using HDMI, and then goes back to whatever you left it as soon as you start playing music.

After that is done, one of two things are going to happen. If you finally hear music in all speakers using the PS3, then the problem is probably your computer. But if it still don't get you sound in all speakers, then your Sony is the problem. The reason why you test with a PS3 is because it doesn't have the many problem computers have, it just works. At the end, they're both digital connections, so upmixing should work fine on both Optical as well as HDMI.

Ok man, let us know how it went. Hopefully there's an answer within this wall of text.:p
 
No problem you posting it here man. :)
I will give it a go within the next two days.

At least your wall of text is really readable. :) :p
 
You can find X-Fi Xtrememusic for under $50 quite often if you have a spare PCI slot.
 
lixuelai said:
You can find X-Fi Xtrememusic for under $50 quite often if you have a spare PCI slot.
Click to expand...
Remember his receiver doesn't have Multi-Channel Analog connectors, the XtremeMusic won't help him. He needs one of the new models with DDL and DTS Connect via Optical.

Btw Silvers24, how much did your Sony cost?
Not to sound mean or anything, but you could of got something more...flexible. You can't upgrade anything, everything is proprietary or built-in.
 
My bad, he needs encoding. Im surprised the onboard does not do it though.
 
lixuelai said:
My bad, he needs encoding. Im surprised the onboard does not do it though.
Click to expand...
Yea, it's a shame. Only the newest chips from Realtek support DDL, but even then, most manufacturers don't pay for the license and are forced to remove the feature.

But the OP plays games, he's really going to enjoy a X-Fi. Specially with F.E.A.R., that game has one of the best EAX effects in my opinion. Room reverb, footsteps, glass breaking, bullet cases bouncing on the floor. It's just something else.
 
Yeah I realize this. I just wanted the sony brand, and at the time didn't think to much of anything else. (As at the time it had what I wanted)

I (regretedly) spent $700 on this...I coulden't be happier, but now I think about it, I coulda doine better ( had looked at the Onkyo's..which I know are THE best, or so I am led to believe)

I have the money now for the X-fi, probably will see who has it here on the forums first.
 
I am sure I could of gotten better for less.
Dunno, but question, can I not buy a recever yet still keep my speakers?
The speakers are great for my room..hence another reason I got them.

(As the connectors on the speakers are changable)
 
Yea, Onkyo is not the best, but among the best at giving you more bang for your buck. That's what makes them so popular. I have an Onkyo, and I'm happy with it.

As far as changing the receiver and keeping the speakers, sure. As long as you can remove that connector. If not, you can always cut the cable, since all you want is bare wire at the end.
But be aware you have to replace the subwoofer too, because is physically attached to the receiver.

I was on your same situation when I wanted to upgrade my Logitech Z-5500. The receiver and subwoofer were mixed, so I was forced to replace both. I was shocked at how crappy the old subwoofer was, that I decided to change the regular speakers as well within the same month. lol.

So I advise you the same, keep what you have for now, until you can afford to change everything. Of course, for the future. But if you truly love the speakers because of their size, then feel free to keep them. But let it be only for convenience, because looking at them you see sound quality is not one of their strong points.

ANYWAYS, what ever happened with Pro Logic II? Is it working now? Did you tested both with the PC as well with your PS3? I'm curious.:p
 
Nah, aint tested it yet. I've been lazy. I will get to it soon.
And report back. Even though I could do it all right now. heh.
 
Ok, after god knows how long, my report is, using Omni - Direct works.
It works for music, gaming, and hell I get surround sound buddy alerts from AIM. LMAO

Pro Logic doesn't do shit for me. My friend btw was the one who messed with the audio which is how I found out. (Since I didn't do jack untill today)

So, I don't get it, but hell I got some sort of emulated Surround. ^_^
 
Whoa, WTF, where did my reply go? It was here this morning. Please don't tell me the servers have problems again.

I don't feel like wring it again.....
 
I learned a lot today about Realtec and why I should just disable it and buy a 8.1 sound card.
Whoa! What an Excellent Setup, great screen! Everything! I see you got the best advise and wasn't going to comment but Wow your set up quite well! Thanks for all the great info!
 
Odin75 said:
Whoa, WTF, where did my reply go? It was here this morning. Please don't tell me the servers have problems again.

I don't feel like wring it again.....
Click to expand...
Ok, here we go again, attempt #2. If my post gets deleted again, I officially give up.

I was saying that I have never heard of "Omni - Direct" upmixing before, but maybe what they mean by that is Omnidirectional. That usually refers to spreading something equally in all directions, so I guess they are doing that, so you get sound from all speakers equally. Onkyo receivers have something like that, they just call it "Full Mono" instead. Anyways, I have already told you pretty much everything there is to know about your problem. If Pro Logic II still fails to work, perhaps your Sony is defective. You only have 2 options from there:

1) Wait until you get your X-FI, and just feed Dolby Digital to your Sony. I think you said before that DD signals works fine, so you shouldn't have a problem with the PC either.

2) Contact Sony or your Vendor about your problem, if you are still under warranty, and work out the solution. Maybe it really is defective, or at least they will teach you how to do it correctly. Manufacturers are normally good about answering question, so don't be afraid. I still remember when my Westy37 came defective, the input select button wasn't working, and they were nice enough to exchange it.

Here's a link to Sony eSupport.
Don't send them an email, because they probably won't reply back, most companies don't. Talk to them either by Live Chat or Phone, and you should have better results.

Ok man, good luck.
 
Ahh thank you. Yeah, I really only was updating you on this however.

Yeah the Omni means exactly what you just described to me.
Dunno, maybe my PL2 is defective, i'll ask sony as you mentioned.
Worse case I won't worry about, it's not like I need that 5.1 asap.

Anyway, thank you again for all the great help. At least I know more then when I did 1-2 weeks ago. :)
 
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