EA, SecuROM Receive Class-Action Lawsuits

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by Terry Olaes, Nov 9, 2008.

  1. Terry Olaes

    Terry Olaes I Used to be the [H] News Guy

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    GamePolitics reports that a pair of class-action lawsuits have been filed against SecuROM and EA over a pair of games that secretly install “SecuROM” on the user’s PC, Spore Creature Creator and The Sims 2: Bon Voyage. Both claims complain that this behavior is deceptive and unscrupulous or unlawful. What do you think?

     
  2. ianken

    ianken [H]ard|Gawd

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    I imagine the EULA has some babble in it about this, but if enough noise is made then perhaps EA will get a clue. Checking the local torrent sites shows that this technology is not effective so why bother lining SecureROMs pockets with cash for something that does not work?
     
  3. iTYPE

    iTYPE Limp Gawd

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    I always thought securom was more for the people who buy/seel used games. I don't think it really stops doenloads.
     
  4. Tokamak

    Tokamak Limp Gawd

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    I've heard of judges throwing out EULA's because the vast majority of people simply click through them, including judges I'd imagine. I'd like to throw in some ridiculous things in an EULA like "The user of this software agrees to provide their eldest son to the provider of the software." and see how many people agree to it.
     
  5. Nenu

    Nenu Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Good.
    Its about time they respected the people who PAY for their games.
    I've had enough of their ridiculous methods and restrictions on software installation/use that only cause pain for legitimate paying customers.
    Although this case doesnt cover all of these issues, perhaps EA (and others) will now start to look at how this badly biased and ineffective protection affects their image with the people who are their lifeblood.
     
  6. DanNeely

    DanNeely 2[H]4U

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    Tokamak: I didn't go quite that far, but for the tetris clone that was the final project of my 2nd year programming class I included several gems like (from memory) "If you local govt does not permit all of these restrictions you're prohibitted from installing of using the software. If you've already done so you're required to destroy your PC immediately". I never heard a word about them...
     
  7. Dreaz

    Dreaz [H]ard|Gawd

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    'bout time. Even megalothic companies shouldn't be able to re-write the business model without proper warning and instruction.
     
  8. Diablo2K

    Diablo2K [H]ardness Supreme

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    I dont think this is anywhere close to what Sony did with the root kits, but sooner or later EA has to realize the only ones gettig hurt with SecuROM is the legit buyers. Its not effecting pirates at all, in actuality it is pushing people towards piracy.
     
  9. markt435

    markt435 [H]ardForum Junkie

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  10. gaspah

    gaspah 2[H]4U

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    yeah die you little bastards, if ever there was a reason not to buy pc games these days, its because you have to risk a virus from 3rd party 'hackers' just to play the game you paid for...
     
  11. Meocene

    Meocene [H]Lite

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    This whole DRM thing is getting a bit ridic imo. Software devs have a right to protect there products. Admitedly EA may have a little to far. But i think this is a reaction more to the idea than the reality of it.
     
  12. matrix563

    matrix563 Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    can i join this lawsuit? :)
     
  13. niconx

    niconx 2[H]4U

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    EA is pretty screwed. Not only is it installed without notice but it's also abnormally installed using malformed registry entries and files that you cannot remove without special effort.
     
  14. JDAdams

    JDAdams Gawd

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    It's a trojan, no more and no less. They should be treated the same as any individual who wrote and spread such a program.
     
  15. MisterJesseJames

    MisterJesseJames [H]Lite

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    EA implementing Securom draconian DRM is as evil as Starforce's own DRM... I'm glad they are getting sued for their treachery.
     
  16. Gorankar

    Gorankar [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You are right, in that it does not stop piracy or even slow it down.

    IMHO, you are also right about it being to stop re selling their games. They pretend it is about piracy because intentionally stopping a second sale is not exactly 100% legal in most places.

    If these measures were actually meant to stop piracy, we would be forced to assume that these publishers and dev houses were run by people with the mental acuity of 8 year olds. I don't think that is the case.

    I am somewhat surprised that someone actually filed a class action over it. While I don't like SecuRom, CD/DVD drive driver replacement, or activation limits that a simple phone call can't fix,(WIndows), it is not quite so bad as Starforce was imo.
     
  17. dR.Jester

    dR.Jester 2[H]4U

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  18. jstnomega

    jstnomega [H]ard|Gawd

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    DRM - the only thing that makes one somewhat sympathetic to those who pirate
     
  19. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    It always surprises me how much vitriol DRM receives from the tech community. Sure I don't like DRM, but I like piracy less. Slice and dice it as much as one wants, piracy is theft, plain and simple, and while all DRM can be hacked, it does make it harder to copy games, receive updates, and keep a system running well.

    For all those people that complain, they rarely acknowledge the problem of piracy and the only solution I hear from these folks is to reduce the price of software and remove the DRM. I think that idea has some merit but at the same time I don't see how offering no technical resistance to piracy will solve the problem. I could see more legitimate copies of software being sold, but I think that piracy would explode as well, considering that no technical expertise would be required to make free copies.

    This is a tough issue but piracy is wrong and as long as people think that its okay we all lose IMHO.
     
  20. vengence

    vengence Level capped

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    if you bought the mentioned game in the time period mentioned in the lawsuit, then your already a part of it.
     
  21. vengence

    vengence Level capped

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    The EULA doesn't contain any babble about it. Read the case.
     
  22. Stoly

    Stoly [H]ardness Supreme

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    software is not sold. Its licensed. sales restrictions do not apply

     
  23. 460cidpower

    460cidpower [H]Lite

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  24. Kahoona

    Kahoona [H]Lite

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    Even if the EULA did contain things about SecuRom, is it written on the box? A lot of stores give you a hard time trying to return opened PC games.
     
  25. Drakan290

    Drakan290 2[H]4U

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    That's freaking crazy. You should get something for going through that, at the very least they should buy you another windows license.
     
  26. SuperSparky

    SuperSparky [H]Lite

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    There is a point to the following story:

    Once upon a time a candy company named "Hershey" came upon hard times and tried to figure out how to save their fledgling business. One executive suggested using cheaper ingredients to gain a large profit margin, one suggested raising prices, one suggested cutting jobs, one suggested cutting certain products for the product line, one suggested shrinking package sizes, one even suggested doing all of the above, and then there was one that suggested looking at merging with a competitor (Mars).

    The CEO thanked everyone sat back and said we'll meet back here in a week, and I'll have a plan ready to implement. This CEO was smart and really understood the rules of economics and how consumers think. He had a brilliant idea and could not wait to present it in the following week's board meeting.

    When he presented his plan, the board was up in arms. Many shouted "that's suicide!", or "the stock holders will hang us for sure!" The CEO was firm about it and said "this WILL work and you WILL do it immediately" (being the boss is cool).

    What happened the next year? They had record profits, the company was not only making money, but was making a lot of money. In fact, they were having a hard time keeping up with orders! What was it that raised the profits of this famous candy company? Simple, they LOWERED the price of every product and even increased the size and quality of their product line.

    How does this have to do with the topic at hand? Easy, if EA wants to combat piracy (which is supposedly at an "all time high"), then instead of treating your consumers like criminals with high prices and restrictive and invasion DRM, how about simply lowering the price of their games?

    Instead of $59.99 for a game hardly any kid or average college kid can afford, how about charge $29.99 and watch those suckers LEGALLY fly off the shelves and watch the profits rise, all without the need of DRM.

    Stardock happens to know this formula. With all of the ridiculous amount of money spent on DRM schemes that only hurt their consumers (pirates can get by them quite easily anyway), just let experience be a fun one.
     
  27. Serpico

    Serpico [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The sad thing is that this hardly puts a dent in piracy at the end of the day. All it does is punish legitimate customers who pay for their games.
     
  28. Serpico

    Serpico [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Stardock and Valve are the only PC game publishers that seem to get it. Valve has their own set of restrictions but the total ease of use and convenience that Steam brings to the table makes it super compelling. Don't make it harder to pirate, make your product easier to buy.

    That's why things like iTunes and Amazon's mp3 services are successful: downloading isn't the problem because people are all criminals, downloading is the "problem" because it is easier to queue downloads on a computer than it is to go to the store. Make it as easy as or easier to download and legally purchase products as it is to list torrents or go on usenet, and the same honest people who will otherwise download without paying will actually pay.

    As for the people who want to download goods without paying, well, nothing is going to stop them. :)
     
  29. AVT

    AVT [H]ardness Supreme

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    SecuROM needs to die exactly like Sony BMG Music CD DRM did - by some virus writer using it's 'features' to their advantage.
     
  30. 460cidpower

    460cidpower [H]Lite

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    Such is the pain I've grown used to as a PC gamer. :(

    I rember back in 1999, I would be sitting there, stairing at my PC monitor for the 12 hr in a row reinstalling Windows 98 for the 12th time, as my best friend played Dreamcast, and told me what an idoit I was for being a PC gamer....:rolleyes:
     
  31. 460cidpower

    460cidpower [H]Lite

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    I'm just glad for things like Xbox360 Red Ring Of Death failures, now the console boys can feel my pain.... :D
     
  32. Exavior

    Exavior [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Ok, how many poeple not on this forum or similar types know what DRM is or care about it?

    You guys are always going on and on about how DRM is hurting these game makers, blah blah blah. But be serious for a moment. Out of all the people that buy the game I bet you most have no idea what DRM is or what it does. What maybe 10 - 20% might know what you are talking about. And of that, I bet few really care about the DRM.

    Then of that 10 - 20% how many let that prevent them from buying a game that they really want. I'd assume that is a small part of it.

    I'd be socked to learn that over 3 - 5% of people that play game refuse to buy any game that has a form of DRM included with it.

    As for the post about somebody being owed a new license for windows after a game install screwed up their machine. No the person desire a note that says dumbass learn how to use the backup feature on your computer.

    And as for lowering price. That wont' change a thing. Your are still going to have people steal and pirate games for all the same BS reasons that people give now.

    Lets look at 1 million games sold at the normal $49.99 for a PC game. That is $49,990,000. Lets drop the price to $29.99 that is only $29,990,000. That is $20,000,000 million less. They would have to sell 1666889 million or about 667,000 more games at the cheaper price to make the amount of money. By you claiming that this would fix piracy and make things the same by everyone pirarting the game now buying it. That is saying that for every 3 that buy the game 2 people pirate the game. I don't think the piracy rate is that high. Thus they are not going to lower the price nor would they profit off the lower price as much. For the most part all games have the same price. Its not like people are using the price of a game as a deciding factor right now, otherwise they wouldn't be buying any games. If you lower the price, those that pirate will still pirate. That isn't going to change. For those that buy some and streal some, they might buy an extra game if lucky.

    Games aren't like candy, selling them a little cheaper than before isn't going to change anything.
     
  33. JimmiG

    JimmiG 2[H]4U

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    Piracy isn't a technical problem, it's a social problem.
     
  34. Gorankar

    Gorankar [H]ardForum Junkie

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  35. Drakan290

    Drakan290 2[H]4U

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    Not that many, I see where you're going with this

    Want to know where DRM is really hurting game makers? People returning said game and bad-mouthing it to no end. This is exactly what happened with Vista, everyone thinks its the worst operating system since Mac OS9 because of a few BETA TESTERS opinions. Launch wasn't that bad. It was all of the beta testers on 'vista capable' machines that ran vista, well, not that well as you may have heard.

    Yep, that's about it I'd say. It's rising too.

    When the developer includes some sort of obtrusive DRM that won't even let you use your computer in a normal circumstance, the buyer of said game should demand something to cover his/her losses. You don't hear about big business just sucking up their losses because one of their subcontractors failed to deliver, do you? It should be the same in the consumer world. When a producer fails to deliver a product that is up to par with current standards, or causes something in the machine you have that works stably before the software is loaded on to your system.. There should be some sort of compensation.

    You're totally wrong here. The reason people don't pay for games is because of price. It's not because they're lazy, its because its expensive. Here's a totally out of my ass statistic, but 65%-75% of the people that I know download games because they're too expensive. Cutting cost on this would not only increase total profit, it'd make games get much more publicity, leading to EVEN MORE profit.


    Overall, I think that the companies need to start thinking smart. With the world going into a recession, they aren't going to be making more money by charging exorbant prices and shafting the customer every chance they get. That may work in a time of economic stability and highpoint, but when people start fighting for money and unemployment rates go up.. Companies go down.
     
  36. erexx

    erexx Limp Gawd

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    So far
    DRM has never stopped piracy.
    DRM has only lowered the value of the product to the consumer.
     
  37. Michaelius

    Michaelius [H]ardness Supreme

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    Now we only need some more for Red Alert, Mass Effect, Dead Space
     
  38. defiant007

    defiant007 2[H]4U

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    Very true, the market for games these days is growing at an exponential rate and will soon dwarf other forms of media. Games make as much as some block buster movies, cost a fraction of the amount to make, but yet cost twice as much to own? If they cut retail the price in half they would probably quadruple their sales.
     
  39. BBA

    BBA [H]ardness Supreme

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    DRM really has not bothered me too much (except Sony rootkit) but the publishers main problem is too high a price and then trying to back the force you to pay too much by devising cockamanee protectino crap in attempt to spoil piracy, which never works for the intended result.

    Since reality is there will never be a perfect DRM system, I think they should stop spending money on crap like securom development and reduce game prices.

    As for the person who said high game prices was not the problem, let me give you another perspective:

    It's pretty easy for me to go buy a $40 game, but the wife really kind of looks at me twice when I buy a $60 game, so I don't buy very many games any more. How many people are in my situation? I'd think about three to four times the number of 'hardcore buy it at any costs' gamers. That's a pretty big now non-buying customer base.

    If we extrapolate my buying habbits to the rest of the population, you are alienating a huge group of buyers simply because the price is too high. The sad thing is once people like me stop buying games, it effects the computer hardware I buy, makes it less important to stay up to date. One could argue the result of high game prices is less money spent in hardware sales as well.

    These people making games never thought of macro economics and they are stabbing themselves in the back. Of course, being share value driven as a majority whole, I am not surprised.
     
  40. BBA

    BBA [H]ardness Supreme

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    Damn...I hate the non-edit ability of these news post replies.