EA/Crytek/Steam/Origins Discussion - Read the first post before commenting

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The previous thread discussing this topic was pretty over run by troll like behavior and general childishness. I've gotten some requests to reopen the thread, so instead I'm making this one.

To be fair to the adults in the forum, if any moderator gave you an infraction in the last thread, you are not allowed to post in this one, and if we see you posting in this one you will receive another, and you may potentially be banned.

Here are some relevant links to the discussion:

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1930146

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1930039

http://exophase.com/23486/ea-pulls-crysis-2-from-steam-store-now-only-on-origin/

Now Origin is showing Crysis 2 as "Only on Origin"

Apparently Valve removed it, not EA.
 
I posted a while ago about my issues here.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1609611

Basically I see this problem as a temporary one but unfortunately we will need to deal with it for many years even though it will not last. Origin is just another player to add to my list. It is of no value to us as the customer to have all these distribution systems clogging our machines up with garbage.

That being said nothing will change. EA knows that valve is the new EA and they have tried before and will keep trying to develop their own competitor to steam and they will have to leverage their AAA titles to make that happen. After all there would be no steam today if valve had not forced us all to install it in order to play their games. That is how business works if you get a product, ANY product you use its success to force your clients to take more products from you. M$ does this with windows, Google does this with search, apple does this with the iPod, valve does it with half-life, and EA will do it with whatever. Wont surprise me if they do it with BF3 or whatever is after that.
 
Seems strange to me, isn't EA the publisher for Valve's console/retail version of it's games?
 
I just read that release that EA says Steam kicked them off because they had C2 for sale on other clients.

If thats the case, looks like I jumped on EA a little prematurely. Im not sure I buy it though. I bought Mass Effect 2 off EA's site because it was cheaper than on Steam. So if they cant have games on Steam that are available elsewhere, why is Mass Effect available on both? Or are they talking about sites other than the developer's own?

Thats awful Apple'ish of Steam if thats the case.
 
N3mi5is said:
Seems strange to me, isn't EA the publisher for Valve's console/retail version of it's games?
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Yes and guess why EA is that publisher, when Valve started to roll out steam it got them in hot water with their old publisher Sierra/Vivendi(dunno if activision was in there) Eventually they moved over to EA because EA was willing to put up with steam to gain half-life distribution. I think that is when we saw the HL anthology. Of course we always knew their love affair would be rocky. They simply have too many conflicts of interest. But valve needs someone to put their junk in stores so no matter who they pick there will be a conflict of interest.
 
I guess I see why EA would want their own little piece of the action so they can charge near full retail price and not have to pay the middle man but they are making money hand over fist off Steam so to me, fracturing off into a bunch of clients isnt going to help anybody and will likely hurt sales overall.
 
MacLeod said:
I guess I see why EA would want their own little piece of the action so they can charge near full retail price and not have to pay the middle man but they are making money hand over fist off Steam so to me, fracturing off into a bunch of clients isnt going to help anybody and will likely hurt sales overall.
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This is what I agree with, and even if people choose to buy the physical copy instead of buying it off Origin, they still aren't helping EA, because they still did not get a sale through their DD service. (This fails to help them achieve their goal by shifting sales towards Origin)

When you try to cut someone as big as Steam out of the equation, you ARE going to lose sales, there's really no doubt about that.

Even though Valve removed it, it hardly matters, since it isn't on Steam, EA WILL need to try to offer it through other DD services as well as their own, or try to get it back on Steam, or they most definitely will not make as many sales as they are projecting.

I just don't see it happening.

Edit: I should also present another scenario, if they do follow through on this, there is a possibility that the number of lost sales won't be enough to prevent them from making a significant profit, if that happens, then I'd say that Origin would be considered a success then, even if I have no intention of using it.
 
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This would be the same as if all the individual record companies took their music off iTunes and opened up their own download site. It would be a industry wide drop in sales.

Developers should just embrace the fact that Valve had the foresight to come out with Steam and theyve done a wonderful thing with it and its not the cornerstone to PC gaming/gamers. They should just all play ball and make a shit ton of cash.
 
MacLeod said:
This would be the same as if all the individual record companies took their music off iTunes and opened up their own download site. It would be a industry wide drop in sales.

Developers should just embrace the fact that Valve had the foresight to come out with Steam and theyve done a wonderful thing with it and its not the cornerstone to PC gaming/gamers. They should just all play ball and make a shit ton of cash.
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I agree, I think this is a move to boost their stock and increase shareholder profits, it's a move designed to increase the profits they get by cutting out the middleman. As much as some people might not like EA, the fact is they are an industry giant, they are right there on par with Activision for the title of biggest publisher. They have a huge impact on the gaming industry, and I guarantee that other companies, especially the second tier companies will be watching this closely to see if their move succeeds, because if BF3 tanks on PC (remember, this move is all about PC sales, not console sales), then it will be a clear signal that this experimented not only failed, but it will show why Steam is so vital to sales industry wide, it will underscore the need for companies to play ball with Valve.

http://www.google.com/finance?q=electronic+arts <------------- EA's stock price on Google Finance
 
This is way more than cutting out the middle man. The future of gaming on the PC is going to be all online. In a number of years maybe 10 or so no one will goto walmart or gamestop to buy games and they will stop selling most games. EA tried an online system once before and it failed they are going to keep trying till they get it and the only way to do that is to force people to try it either by making exclusives or offering the lowest prices. The reason is that EA is primarily a publisher not a studio. Their job is to provide the service of delivering the product to the customers (and in the past this was all by making disks, boxes and so on and distributing it to brick and mortar retail stores). This means that in a future where no one goes to the store to buy a game EA is irrelevant as a company if they do not have an online distribution system that has as much volume as their current retail sales channels. So for EA this is a do or die thing and you bet it effects their stock price because the investors know that steam is the model for how all publishers will work in the future.

This is why we see so many competitors popping up in this space. It does not matter what you do you will try to somehow use whatever your strengths are to force your hand in this race. It is almost as important as the mobile phone OS race which is currently being dominated by google.
 
It's a shame that Valve is so uncommunicative. I'd love to hear their perspective/reasoning on this whole issue.

I did notice that Crysis 2's site now says "Buy on Origin" instead of "Only on Origin." I still find that very curious though.
 
It all makes we wonder if EA is just testing the waters and trolling the internet gaming community with these announcements about games being exclusive to Origin. Hopefully EA sees it being fairly unpopular and doesn't go ahead with what is IMO a foregone conclusion...
 
I work at EA, specifically on Origin. We didn't pull Crysis 2 from Steam. Why would we? That means less money for us. Steam pulled Crysis 2 down. If you looked at the page previously, the text also read "pre-order Crysis 2" and stated that it was on sale for $39.99 even though clicking on the link showed you the correct price of $59.99. That page you're referring to was out of date, and I'm not sure who is supposed to maintain that page but they clearly did not.
 
How much of what we posted above is factually accurate, Offspring?
 
I don't know much about the back story, I just know that when I heard about Crysis 2 being ripped off of Steam it didn't make sense that it would be an EA decision (not just because I work there, I hate on them as much as anyone). I asked one of my colleagues and he told me it was VALVe's decision. I don't know why they did it, nor do I really care since it seems stupid.

I also don't know why Alice 2: The Madness Returns got yanked either. I work on the actual software, not the business side of the project but I interact with a lot of those people on a daily basis. All I know is what I've stated.
 
So in other words, you don't know any more than the rest of us? Either EA is being deceptive about the actual reasons, or Valve did something I don't recall them doing before, which is yanking a Triple-A game from a major publisher with no word to their userbase for no apparent reason.

The thing is, it's quite possible that EA tried to get Valve to do something, or they actually did something that violated their distribution agreement with Valve and Valve responded according to the terms of the mutually agreed upon CONTRACT (anyone going to tell me that there isn't something in writing for a distribution deal worth hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars?) and EA claims that Valve took it down which would be "technically correct" even if EA instigated the takedown and Valve responded according to the agreed upon terms of the deal.

Doing something to violate the terms of the distribution contract would be an easy way for EA to get their product pulled from Steam when they would have otherwise been locked into it, so they can make the Steam service out as the villain and move their product back to their own home. I don't have any idea what actually happened, but I know there is A LOT of ways for EA to blame Valve for it that wouldn't be entirely honest. But who knows, maybe Valve just up and decided to burn their bridges with one of the largest gaming publishers for no reason like EA claims. But there is the distinct odor of bullshit in the air.
 
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MacLeod said:
I just read that release that EA says Steam kicked them off because they had C2 for sale on other clients.

If thats the case, looks like I jumped on EA a little prematurely. Im not sure I buy it though. I bought Mass Effect 2 off EA's site because it was cheaper than on Steam. So if they cant have games on Steam that are available elsewhere, why is Mass Effect available on both? Or are they talking about sites other than the developer's own?

Thats awful Apple'ish of Steam if thats the case.
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Gotta be BS. Other websites consistently have better deals than steam.
 
Ok, I thought my post near the end was one the posts in question, whew.
But I'll wait until Steam gives their side of the story before I point fingers.

EA and Steam needs to work this out for the benefit of the general community.
Offspring said:
I don't know much about the back story, I just know that when I heard about Crysis 2 being ripped off of Steam it didn't make sense that it would be an EA decision (not just because I work there, I hate on them as much as anyone). I asked one of my colleagues and he told me it was VALVe's decision. I don't know why they did it, nor do I really care since it seems stupid.

I also don't know why Alice 2: The Madness Returns got yanked either. I work on the actual software, not the business side of the project but I interact with a lot of those people on a daily basis. All I know is what I've stated.
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Alice and Crysis 2 are recent games featured on Origin. That's what they have in common and they are both gone. BF3 isn't on Steam either.
The agreement that was in place before is clearly not in place now since Origin emerged.
 
WorldExclusive said:
Ok, I thought my post near the end was one the posts in question, whew.
But I'll wait until Steam gives their side of the story before I point fingers.

EA and Steam needs to work this out for the benefit of the general community.


Alice and Crysis 2 are recent games featured on Origin. That's what they have in common and they are both gone. BF3 isn't on Steam either.
The agreement that was in place before is clearly not in place now since Origin emerged.
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Valve is not prone to pettiness. I just can't think of a single reason they'd turn their nose up at some of the most anticipated games.
 
Fail said:
This is what I agree with, and even if people choose to buy the physical copy instead of buying it off Origin, they still aren't helping EA, because they still did not get a sale through their DD service. (This fails to help them achieve their goal by shifting sales towards Origin)

When you try to cut someone as big as Steam out of the equation, you ARE going to lose sales, there's really no doubt about that.

Even though Valve removed it, it hardly matters, since it isn't on Steam, EA WILL need to try to offer it through other DD services as well as their own, or try to get it back on Steam, or they most definitely will not make as many sales as they are projecting.

I just don't see it happening.

Edit: I should also present another scenario, if they do follow through on this, there is a possibility that the number of lost sales won't be enough to prevent them from making a significant profit, if that happens, then I'd say that Origin would be considered a success then, even if I have no intention of using it.
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Personally I'll be buying BF3 either retail, code, or off steam when they get this sorted out.
 
Doesn't surprise me if Valve was the one to take it out. That's what monopoly wanna-bes do: it's their way, or the highway.

I doubt that we'll ever know all the details though. It's not on either party best interests to reveal them. I maintain my perspective from the other thread. A new digital distribution system doesn't hurt, especially when new and better deals may be involved. Steam prices suck big time. It's one of the reasons why I NEVER bought any game off Steam, even if I'm forced to use it when installing some games.
 
I find it odd that valve would force the game/s off steam, it really serves them no benefit in the long run to promote their opposition. Not sayig they did or they didn't, just that it'd be a bad move if they did.
 
piscian18 said:
Valve is not prone to pettiness. I just can't think of a single reason they'd turn their nose up at some of the most anticipated games.
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Well, I don't remember a recent issue with EA obeying Valve rules before the announcement of Origin.
I just went to GamersGate, their site background is Alice and Crysis 2 is a featured game.
How is GamersGate different from Steam? I think they're both in the business of selling games. Now, it could be more than just selling games to Valve and EA.
 
WorldExclusive said:
Well, I don't remember a recent issue with EA obeying Valve rules before the announcement of Origin.
I just went to GamersGate, their site background is Alice and Crysis 2 is a featured game.
How is GamersGate different from Steam? I think they're both in the business of selling games. Now, it could be more than just selling games to Valve and EA.
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gamersgate, D2D and all the others are distribution sites/companies e.g. digital retail stores. steam is a community based distribution/gaming systems. similar but different idea's. the idea behind steam is to lock you into a single software where everything has to go through them. more profit for them and they don't have to worry about you leaving since everything is available there for you even though you could probably find the game some where else for cheaper(especially for EU gamers where steam rips them off). which is less convenient thus you are more likely to spend the extra 10-15 dollars. the idea works because most people are lazy and are not willing to spend an extra 5 minutes to go out of their way to save money. its the world we live in now where time is far more important then money.

in the end competition is good and healthy for the community and market. so while it may be a pain in the ass to deal with the gamers/customers will end up being the ones that profit from it. it just may take longer for people to realize it since it actually requires change and people don't like that.
 
so does this mean that Steam users will not get any more automatic updates/patches of the game through Steam?...so what happens when the DX11 patch is released?...will there be a standalone patch for Steam users?
 
polonyc2 said:
so does this mean that Steam users will not get any more automatic updates/patches of the game through Steam?...so what happens when the DX11 patch is released?...will there be a standalone patch for Steam users?
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All patches for the game are available individually as well. II have the non-steam version of Crysis 2 (bought it in retail) and I usually download the patches from fileshack, but there are many other places to get them from.
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
gamersgate, D2D and all the others are distribution sites/companies e.g. digital retail stores. steam is a community based distribution/gaming systems. similar but different idea's. the idea behind steam is to lock you into a single software where everything has to go through them. more profit for them and they don't have to worry about you leaving since everything is available there for you even though you could probably find the game some where else for cheaper(especially for EU gamers where steam rips them off). which is less convenient thus you are more likely to spend the extra 10-15 dollars. the idea works because most people are lazy and are not willing to spend an extra 5 minutes to go out of their way to save money. its the world we live in now where time is far more important then money.

in the end competition is good and healthy for the community and market. so while it may be a pain in the ass to deal with the gamers/customers will end up being the ones that profit from it. it just may take longer for people to realize it since it actually requires change and people don't like that.
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Pretty much agree on all counts!
 
Silus said:
All patches for the game are available individually as well. II have the non-steam version of Crysis 2 (bought it in retail) and I usually download the patches from fileshack, but there are many other places to get them from.
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OK, I thought the individual patches only applied to retail versions of the game and Steam users required special versions of those same patches

I also have the retail version of Crysis 2 and I let the game's auto update feature download and install any patches
 
polonyc2 said:
OK, I thought the individual patches only applied to retail versions of the game and Steam users required special versions of those same patches
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Actually you have a point and I guess I misunderstood your question. Since I have the retail version, I know that patches are available individually (and I answered based on that alone), but they might not work with Steam versions.

polonyc2 said:
I also have the retail version of Crysis 2 and I let the game's auto update feature download and install any patches
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I had to install the 1.8 patch manually for some reason. The auto-update didn't kick in.
 
Silus said:
All patches for the game are available individually as well. II have the non-steam version of Crysis 2 (bought it in retail) and I usually download the patches from fileshack, but there are many other places to get them from.
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Really? Usually Steam has a different patch rather than the one that you can download for retail versions. There are games which have manual patching on Steam, but I was under the impression it was the exception more than the rule.
 
MacLeod said:
I just read that release that EA says Steam kicked them off because they had C2 for sale on other clients.

If thats the case, looks like I jumped on EA a little prematurely. Im not sure I buy it though. I bought Mass Effect 2 off EA's site because it was cheaper than on Steam. So if they cant have games on Steam that are available elsewhere, why is Mass Effect available on both? Or are they talking about sites other than the developer's own?

Thats awful Apple'ish of Steam if thats the case.
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Sadly, Steam has been fairly Appleish for a while now. I wonder if they're going to say anything about this and why they removed it, but I doubt it.
 
rYstS.png
 
Tudz said:
Really? Usually Steam has a different patch rather than the one that you can download for retail versions. There are games which have manual patching on Steam, but I was under the impression it was the exception more than the rule.
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And you may be right. I already stated in the post before yours that I misread/misunderstood the question and answered solely based on the retail version. My bad.
 
What are the odds that new EA games are going to require Origin to be running as a background process ala steam?

I tolerate steam because it actually provides a lot of useful functions (in-game chat, screen/video capture, in-game web browser), but I really do not want to be running several of these damn programs (especially if they run as shittily as Origin).
 
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lol... that's a great picture defiant, and exactly what I worry about if this trend picks up steam (oh my!).

The more I think about it, I would bet this either has something to do with DLC or with the DX11 patch. My guess is Crytek and EA want to offer one/both of those exclusively on Origin as an incentive, but I'd imagine that the Steam agreement states that all addon content and/or patches must be accessible to users of the game on Steam. That's the only thing that makes sense. And I can see both sides of it too. That'd be a great incentive for EA to use to get people to buy their games on their software, and Valve would want to stomp that out because who is going to buy a game on Steam if important patches/addons won't come to the platform? Still, it's all speculation until something leaks because both sides are not providing the reason.
 
I sort of feel like I ought to care about having to use multiple services for the games I want to play but ultimately I don't. The only thing that concerns me is having the choice of where to get games in the first place. A publisher's own service being the only place to get a game can't be good for gamers.
I'm a huge fan of Steam, but while Valve has generated a phenomenal amount of good will with it, they could still fuck it up if they start getting cocky and end up losing some of their bigger publisher partners (if that's what happened in this case).
 
RIPATI said:
The best outcome from all this DD store competition would be thinner clients and less shit clogging up the system tray.
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I think he was just trying to make a point. It would probably be more convincing if there was ever a reason to have all of those processes running simultaneously.
 
I personally have no issue with what's going on since I have Crysis 2 registered through Origin already. Download speeds for games are fast & sometimes faster than Steam. I think Origin is a good game platform app but it doesn't have as many features as Steam. I think I'm fairly neutral on the topic since I'll buy a game from whatever service has the lowest price. The outrage over this seems a bit out of hand & I don't find the Steam loyalists to be very convincing in their arguments. I just hope that this all blows over & that PC gamers benefit from it.
 
They just need to agree to use Steam as a centralized marketplace, it's better for consumers and better for them overall, because this WILL result in lost sales, I guarantee it.
 
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