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E6600 vs E6420(OC)

B

Breath_of_the_Dying

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
1,454
With the new price cuts I'm considering upgrading my mobo and CPU to make better use of my video card. I jumped on the x1950 AGP bandwagon and found that my CPU runs at 100%, meaning its bottlenecking and I'm not getting full use out of my video card. My current processor is a AMD64 3400+ s754, and with my mobo (MSI K8T neo) I cant overclock it at all. My solution is to wait for the april price cuts (and the end of my semester so I have time to rebuild without distractions) and buy an C2D processor and this motherboard...

ASROCK LGA775-4coredual-VSTA
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157107

This way I can keep my videocard (AGP 8x) and memory (DDR400) while still having a decent system (will upgrade the memory soon afterwards).

To my knowledge, the E6420 goes to 4M cache and is now like an underclocked E6600. I have little experience in overclocking, and I hear that newer releases of E6600's dont over clock as the old ones, so I'm wondering if I should risk getting the E6420 and try to overclock it, or just stick with the E6600 (~50 more after price cuts)?

Again, the main reason for getting the upgrade is to maximize my video card (I run games at 1920x1080), so if I know for sure the E6420 has enough horsepower, then I would settle for that and try to get marginal overclocks for kicks. For higher resolutions, I may need more power though, so I wont dismiss the extra $$ for the E6600 just yet. I keep going back and forth

I know it can be apples an oranges, but by general comparsion, what would a E6400 and E6600 compare to on the AMD side? 4400? 5200?

Thanks in advance!
 
id personally go for a 805D than put a core 2 duo in that system and will overclock easily and loads. its better value for money and will cure the bottleneck. If you want to upgrade after that you will have to change the gfx card and memory anyway.

If you have some change buy more ram so u have 2 gig and games will run much better. This would be a choice than running a core duo on the spec you have.
 
What is so bad about an x1950?? Dropping more money on a video card does nothing when my processor is bottlenecking. The only reason I want to upgrade now is to fully utilize my current video card, not to spend as much money as I can to get a super-powerful rig. I'll be building a computer from scratch some time next year, meaning possibly octo-core, R700(multi core gpu), DDR3, ect.

Memory is not an issue. I can tell that my cpu is bottlenecking, so buying more ram doesn't solve anything. I will upgrade to DDR2 in may or so, but I've NEVER seen my memory resources really above 500, much less above 1gig

I've read about the 805D and it apprently has horrible cooling. It's comparable to the 3800+ which seems too slight an upgrade for me. Also, getting an aftermarket cooler would bump up the price to just under the E6420, then I'd have to mess with overclocking to make it viable (something I generally wanted to avoid). What makes the 805D so much better than C2D? I've heard nothing about Pentium D's winning people over (honestly haven't been looking), and C2D is where its at, so what do I not know about Pentium Ds that make them worthwile?
 
Breath_of_the_Dying said:
I jumped on the x1950 AGP bandwagon and found that my CPU runs at 100%, meaning its bottlenecking
Click to expand...
When gaming on a single core CPU you will always have the cpu pegged at 100%. That's just the way XP is designed. Even games that aren't very demanding will still sit there and suck up all the available cpu cycles and just waste them. Not very efficient.

Having an AGP card is going to limit your choice of motherboards if you intend to go with a C2D processor. Nothing wrong with an x1950 but you would probably be better off selling it and going with a PCI-E motherboard with DDR2 memory. The C2D AGP boards aren't great overclockers and that's where all the fun is with a C2D.
 
Thats a tough one..... I would consider an E4300 because with ddr and that mobo, it is likely that one of the 2 will limit your overclock at a certain fsb..... so say you are limited to 300fsb, not saying you will but just as an example, a E6420 will be at 2400mhz while the E4300 at 2700mhz...... thats probably enough to offset the 2mb cache difference.... and the higher you get the more it will favor the E4300 at a lot cheaper price.....
 
The Asrock board won't break 300fsb, so you're probably better OCing an E4300. Besides your AGP card the only thing holding back is your RAM. RAM is cheap and if you have 2x512MB, I would suggest you ditch it, sell the graphics card. Start fresh. It will would give you reason to get 2x1GB if you don't have it already.
 
I dont get why I keep getting told to sell my AGP card. I'm not looking for a 1337 OMGUBER upgrade, just something that makes full use of my x1950. Like I said, I'll be building from scratch in 2008

1)The only issue with keeping an AGP card is the availibilty of mobos that support newer processors. There is nothing wrong with AGP itself and from my knowledge none of the non DX10 cards (even the 8800's might not) saturate the bandwidth of AGP 8x.

2)Selling my videocard puts me in a worse position than what I am in now. I'd have to sell the card at loss because its not new, and I'd have to buy a PCI-E card to support the new motherboard which for the money I get from my current card, I'd have to get something worse or spend more money to get the same card. Most of the tests I've seen have shown that there was no major difference in performance of AGP8X and PCI-E versions of the same card.

Bao01 is right, the Mobo maxes out at 291 mhz, so the higher multiple will be more effective than higher stocked CPU speeds with lower multipliers.

I'd be perfeclty happy with 2.6 C2D processor with 2MB L2 Cache, but all CPU's are different, right? What are the odds that a 4300 wont even reach 291mhz? Especially since I have little experience overclocking. I mean, even if not overclocked at all, it can hold its ground against AMD 4400+ and 5000+ processors making that alone worthwile at $133, but all the readings I've seen want me to OC it now. Even though my mobo walls at 291, OCing that much should make a significant difference.

Now I'm heavily leaning towards the 4300, but now I have to research memory to see how it factors in. I'm probably going to stick with 2x512 to save money, because like I've said, I've never seen anything go beyond ~500mb memory usage. From my experience more ram != better performance in anything I've done with my comp.

Thanks for the contributions so far, and I'm still open ears for any more recommendations/suggestions/pointers
 
Here's my list so far

CORSAIR XMS2 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 675 (PC2 5400)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145539
ASRock 4CoreDual-VSTA LGA 775
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157107
Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 Allendale 1.8GHz 2M shared L2 Cache
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115013

My biggest question is, Can memory be too fast? The memory standard on the mobo is 533, but the one I'm looking at is 675. Should I stick with 533 memory?

I guess I'm still confused about req to OC. I thought memory has to match the speed of the cpu mhz. So if I'm aiming for 291, I need at least 2x291= 592 speeds? If the mobo can only handle 533, how did some companys OC to 291 on that mobo??
 
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I think you have a great graphics card. I'm typing on a 939 asrock right now. The reason I bought it was for the OC and the AGP slot when NF4/PCI-E was the game. My graphics card died, though it had been a replacement for another AGP card on an Intel system which died earlier. I don't regret this board. Sure it was flakey in the beginning, but it's fine now. The graphics card actually held me back from considering other boards, that's all. But if you're comfortable with the board, then you should get it. Back on topic.

I'm not sure how well the board works with DDR2 memory. Get any cheap DDR2-800. A-Data, Patriot, G-Skill, even the Wintec-Ampo one. That should give you lots of overhead. The lowest DDR2 speed should be 2 times the FSB. So, for 291fsb, it should be 582mhz. And no, memory can never be too fast:p

I have to get my butt to jury duty now. But, I will look again if/when I'm back to see if I can make myself more useful.
 
Breath_of_the_Dying said:
Here's my list so far

CORSAIR XMS2 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 675 (PC2 5400)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145539
ASRock 4CoreDual-VSTA LGA 775
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157107
Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 Allendale 1.8GHz 2M shared L2 Cache
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115013

My biggest question is, Can memory be too fast? The memory standard on the mobo is 533, but the one I'm looking at is 675. Should I stick with 533 memory?

I guess I'm still confused about req to OC. I thought memory has to match the speed of the cpu mhz. So if I'm aiming for 291, I need at least 2x291= 592 speeds? If the mobo can only handle 533, how did some companys OC to 291 on that mobo??
Click to expand...

Stick to your plans they aren't bad. If you go DDR2, you want 667RAM instead of 533 because 533 will fall in the budget category. You want more bandwidth that Processor bandwidth because unlike older systems it doesn't go to waste. 667 and even 800 gives more room for overclocking. I would go for the first processor you said because 2400MHz is similar to an Athlon at or about 2.8 to 3GHz LOL! I unoverclocked mine for a bud just to make that point. Most of us here at [H] do tend to get a little greedy to the point of loosing common sense.
 
I would go with the e4300 as well, it is the best choice for that mobo (until the e4400 comes out)..for the ram, get ddr2 800 for the overclocking room

That'll be a nice system update for sure.
 
Yup 4300 / 4400 is the best choice for that board due to the high Multiplier. + 1 vote for this option.

Also about the ram id get PC6400 because theres not a big difference in price with slower ram at this point and it will allow you to overclock better. No point getting PC9600 ram tho because by he time you change this new motherboard to something else DDR3 will be out.
 
Breath_of_the_Dying said:
1)The only issue with keeping an AGP card is the availibilty of mobos that support newer processors. There is nothing wrong with AGP itself and from my knowledge none of the non DX10 cards (even the 8800's might not) saturate the bandwidth of AGP 8x.
Click to expand...

There is a decent difference, I'd expect anywhere from 2-6% and that was with R580 and G71, the G80 will increase the gap.
 
Breath_of_the_Dying said:
Here's my list so far

CORSAIR XMS2 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 675 (PC2 5400)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145539
ASRock 4CoreDual-VSTA LGA 775
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157107
Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 Allendale 1.8GHz 2M shared L2 Cache
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115013

My biggest question is, Can memory be too fast? The memory standard on the mobo is 533, but the one I'm looking at is 675. Should I stick with 533 memory?

I guess I'm still confused about req to OC. I thought memory has to match the speed of the cpu mhz. So if I'm aiming for 291, I need at least 2x291= 592 speeds? If the mobo can only handle 533, how did some companys OC to 291 on that mobo??
Click to expand...

I don't know where you got your information from but most ASRock motherboards have very low FSB walls. This one is about 300 (not guranteeing but almost 90 percent sure). This is based on many reviews I read while thinking about buying this motherboard for my system (see sig). This board is NOT for overclocking. It's a great budget motherboard with many options (DDRI, DDRII, AGP, PCI-E, LGA-775). Simply put, don't get your hopes up for overclocking with this board.
 
I know, with that wall in mind I'm getting the E4300 which has a 9x multiplier. The review I read say it maxes out at 291 mhz. 291 x 9 = 2.616. The processor alone on stock is much better than what I currently have, so it should be enough to fully utilize a x1950 video card. Any OC will be just for fun and I wont push for it too hard My videocard is agp 8x, so this is one of the few options to upgrade without having to buy a new videocard, if not the only options.
 
Im didnt know you can put DDR2 with that mobo, in that case get DDR2 instead of DDR1.... dont bother with pc6400, get pc5300 and itll get you the same result since theyre the same module......
 
Breath_of_the_Dying said:
I know, with that wall in mind I'm getting the E4300 which has a 9x multiplier. The review I read say it maxes out at 291 mhz. 291 x 9 = 2.616. The processor alone on stock is much better than what I currently have, so it should be enough to fully utilize a x1950 video card. Any OC will be just for fun and I wont push for it too hard My videocard is agp 8x, so this is one of the few options to upgrade without having to buy a new videocard, if not the only options.
Click to expand...

Just figured I would put it out there just incase :) wouldn't be fun to get something less than you expect.
 
Breath_of_the_Dying said:
My biggest question is, Can memory be too fast? The memory standard on the mobo is 533, but the one I'm looking at is 675. Should I stick with 533 memory?
Click to expand...

This means the board will try to default the memory to 533 with DDR2 memory. If the memory is rated higher, it's simply downclocked to that rating.

I've had a chance to look at the user reviews and read the manual. One user stated that the board was able to run memory at 667. In the manual, there is definitely a setting for for DDR2-667. I can't say for a fact if the board will run or is stable at this setting. But, if it is, this would be good news.

With 1066fsb(4x266) chips, the memory runs 1:1 with the fsb at ddr2-533(2x266). It uses a 5:4(or is it 4:5 I forget..who cares) divider at ddr2-667(2 x 266 x 5/4). When the fsb is raised, the ratios are used to generate the new memory speed. So, with a 5:4 divider running on an overclocked E4300 you'd be able to run the memory closer to DDR2-800. A higher memory frequency is better as it reduces memory access times and increases potential data transfer rates from CPU to Memory, thus improving performance.

For example, if you could run an E4300 at 9x280 with DDR2-667 set in bios, CPU speed would be 2.52GHz and memory speed would be 700(2 x 280 x 5/4).

Now, if the board defaults to DDR2-533 with E4300, this gets you a 4:3 divider which is even better. If you can set it to DDR2-667 with E4300...

I recommend getting DDR2-800 memory over the one's you pointed out, just to be safe. Some kits actually cost less than those Corsairs - and high-end Corsairs cost more. No sense using XMS for that kind of OC, though.

Hope that helps!
 
I would recommend staying away from 512MB sticks and go for 1GB sticks instead. 1GB of ram is simply not enough for today's games, especially if you're playing at high resolutions and detail settings, and I'd rather have 2x1GB insead of 4x512.
 
Get 2x 1GB this mobo have 4 slots BUT 2 of them are DDR1 and 2 of them are DDR2 and you can only use one OR the other not both.

If you get 2x 512 MB which would suck for games you would be stuck with 2 sticks of 512 when you upgrade to 2x 1GB in the future. I garantee you it's worth getting 2x 1GB and it will make a huge difference.
 
http://www.crucial.com/store/partspecs.aspx?imodule=CT12864AA667

Crucial used to sell D9GMH chips on the above boards. The price has dropped significantly but unfortunately they are using Samsung chips now which are OK but not nearly as good.

At CL5 I'm presently testing two of these at 433 MHz with 2.15 volts. If you are using an E4300 with a multiplier of 9 or even 8 you could get a decent overclock with these.
 
Now I'm leaning towards the E4400 with a 10x multiplier. I'm not buying the parts until late april, so the E4400 should be out by then at around $133.
 
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