DX10 on DX 9 hardware?

[Crash425]

So, does anyone know? Can you install dx 10 on your system if you have a current gen card? Will you be getting any of the benefits (obviously aside from things like unified core achitecture). I feel like it should.

 

[{NG}Fidel]

DX10 is hardware based.
You will get DX9 based effects with a DX9 card or possibly the Game Dev will use work arounds to allow DX10 effects on a DX9 card.

 

[Unknown-One]

You can only get DX10 with Windows Vista, and it will not support Windows XP.

If you were talking about installing Vista with DX9 hardware, you will be stuck with DirectX 9L and won't be able to use DX10 rendering modes.

 

[ShiningHolden]

You can only get DX10 with Windows Vista, and it will not support Windows XP.

If you were talking about installing Vista with DX9 hardware, you will be stuck with DirectX 9L and won't be able to use DX10 rendering modes.

PC Shopper magazine shows a poll that 59% of the people who participated in the poll, are simply not going to upgrade, and will remain with there current OS.

Unless DX10 can pull two bunnies out of a hat, I am not that interested in it, at least not at it's launch.

I will wait for benchmarks, comparisons, and game developers utilization.

Sure, you could teach an old game a new graphics card, but that seems, redundant. If you are going to buy the latest and greatest things, you should put it to the test with the latest and greatest things.

 

[jrb531]

They can simulate many things in drivers so that DX9 cards can perform some DX10 routines but maybe slower. Not everything mind you but many. Often something that might take 1 cycle in DX10 "hardware" might be able to be done in 2 or 3 cycles on a DX9 card.

Much like there is little or no difference in game "appearance" between cards using PS2.0 vs PS3.0 I am sure this will be the case some of the time with Vista. PS3.0 is better and faster but Nvidia, ATI and/or the game companies have gotten around the issue by either not using PS3.0 features or writing special code that emulates it but a bit slower than PS3.0 allows.

So Vista will run DX10 "software" on a DX9 video card "hardware" and the driver layer that Nvidia or ATI writes will be able to perform some of the newer feature using existing DX9 hardware but obviously slower than if the DX9 directly supported the feature.

-JB

 

[Unknown-One]

So Vista will run DX10 "software" on a DX9 video card "hardware" ...

Thats news to me! So DX9 hardware will be able to run DX10 games in DX10 mode with a performance hit?

 

[Brent_Justice]

Why are you all making this more complicated than it is?

It is quite simple:

To accelerate DX10 graphics you need, Vista/DX10, DX10 graphics card, DX10 game.

Any other combination will only yield DX9.

/thread

 

[jrb531]

Thats news to me! So DX9 hardware will be able to run DX10 games in DX10 mode with a performance hit?

That is not what I said... what I said is that when new hardware comes out that the video card companies can emulate "some" of the new functions within the drivers but in doing so they often run slower.

I never said DX9 hardware could run "all" DX10 code but yes I did imply that some DX10 functions could be done with DX9 hardware. In fact almost everything could be emulated with any video card... it would just be so slow as to be unusable.

To answer the "simple" statement that you need DX10 hardware to run DX10 code. This is incorrect. With Vista you can run any DX10 code on any card provided it has basic DX support... now if that code will be fast enough to be usable is the real question. On faster DX9 cards I would guess the answer would be yes... on older DX7 and DX8 cards the answer most likely will be no.

Ask people with very fast laptops that only have DX7 or DX8 cards in them about running newer DX9 code. It works but how well it works depends on the game, speed of the CPU and the built in video card.

No software can make new chips out of old *smiles* but some of the latest DX9 video cards will do just fine under DX10 but how well it runs will depend much on the ATI and Nvidia drivers.

Anothing thing to remember also... just because a video card "can" understand DX10 routines does not mean it will automatically be fast enough to run the code. Does anyone remember the entire Nvidia "FX" mess? The FX cards are total crap in DX9 (the 57xx and 59xx cards were added later to help address the issue but the original 52xx, 56xx and 58xx cards were horrid!)

You want a DX10 "hardware" card? Well the smart people will stick with DX9 until real DX10 games come out that take advantage of what DX10 has to offer. While buying a DX10 as soon as they come out may help you in the bragging department... until games come out that really use DX10 (not some simple tacked on DX10 support just to say they have it) they we have no idea how well the cards will perform in real world apps... we just have empty promises.

Often by the time most games come out that use DX10 we will be on the next generation of DX10 cards anyway so get yourself a nice DX9 "deal" now and enjoy it for a year or so then start looking at DX10 cards.

Of course the video card companies (once DX10 cards are on the shelf) will be doing anything they can to convince you that you need a DX10 card now. The impressive demo's will be out and tons of Ad space and "paid" reviews in popular mags will toute why you need DX10 and why you need it now. Well I'll hold on to my aging 6800 Ultra for another year and then see what the state of the market is. And of course those people who run out and buy the first DX10 cards will talk about how great they are but I have been through this too many times and to date the trend has not been broken through DX7, DX8 and DX9. It takes at least a year+ for games to come out that "really" use the new DX.

When DX9 first came out 90+% of the games still used DX8 for a long long time... same for DX7. Now just because Vista will come with DX10 built in does not mean that DX10 will not run with DX9 cards. Games today require that you have DX9 installed correct? Well all these games still run on DX8 and even DX7 hardware video cards so how would you judge this?

Can I say...

DX9 games "require" a DX9 video card? Of course not because DX9 games run just fine on DX8 cards just slower and often with less graphic features. Each generation of DX adds features... if a game does not use those features or the driver can emulate the new features using existing hardware then they game runs just fine.

my two cents

-JB

 

[jrb531]

Why are you all making this more complicated than it is?

It is quite simple:

To accelerate DX10 graphics you need, Vista/DX10, DX10 graphics card, DX10 game.

Any other combination will only yield DX9.

/thread

In general yes but what about instances in which they can combine existing DX9 hardware functions to simulate DX10 support? It works but it's slower and, of course, not everything can be done this way.

-JB

 

[Brent_Justice]

In general yes but what about instances in which they can combine existing DX9 hardware functions to simulate DX10 support? It works but it's slower and, of course, not everything can be done this way.

-JB

You will never see it.