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dx10 from ati, when?

What's the hurry? Not like the market is flooded with dx10 games and apps....
 
Ub3rn00b said:
What's the hurry? Not like the market is flooded with dx10 games and apps....
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Why do people always ask that? If people only upgrade their cards every year or two, then it makes sense to want to get a DX10 card now so that they're ready when the games appear.
 
Yeah, but who says the card you buy now will run DX 10 games worth a crap when they finally do come out? Better to wait it out IMO.
 
I would rather buy something thats allready HAD all the bugs worked out and all the sob stories told, and have something thats not quite cutting edge any more, then to jump on the 'must have it NOW' bandwagon.
 
DoggyDaddi said:
I would rather buy something thats allready HAD all the bugs worked out and all the sob stories told, and have something thats not quite cutting edge any more, then to jump on the 'must have it NOW' bandwagon.
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Ditto, but I still can't wait for them to come out, so the current generation's cards will drop in price.
 
dark_phantom36 said:
Ditto, but I still can't wait for them to come out, so the current generation's cards will drop in price.
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thing is, the prices dont usually drop. maybe why ati/nvidia are talking to the govt right now.
 
Martyr said:
thing is, the prices dont usually drop. maybe why ati/nvidia are talking to the govt right now.
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That IS kind of frustrating... how the price always manages to stay about the same lately, right up until the item stops being available.. torn between buying now for too much.. and not being able to buy at all :(
 
DoggyDaddi said:
I would rather buy something thats allready HAD all the bugs worked out and all the sob stories told, and have something thats not quite cutting edge any more, then to jump on the 'must have it NOW' bandwagon.
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Agreed. The R600s, as good as they might be, are going to be full of bugs and problems (700 million+ transistors has plenty of room for problems, plus the new 512 bit memory bus, etc.), and by the time we actually get good DX10 games, they'll probably be raped. Unless you're running something in the 9xxx series or older (i.e. you CAN'T live without a new card for the next couple months), wait for the first refresh.
 
Martyr said:
thing is, the prices dont usually drop. maybe why ati/nvidia are talking to the govt right now.
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Prices seem to drop in the used market. (which is where I'll be spending money)
 
djBon2112 said:
Agreed. The R600s, as good as they might be, are going to be full of bugs and problems (700 million+ transistors has plenty of room for problems, plus the new 512 bit memory bus, etc.), and by the time we actually get good DX10 games, they'll probably be raped. Unless you're running something in the 9xxx series or older (i.e. you CAN'T live without a new card for the next couple months), wait for the first refresh.
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The problems are the reason it's not out yet. They can't release it until the hardware problems are fixed.
 
Borgschulze said:
DX10 games? Any news? Oh yeah, still in development.

Except Flight Simulator X.
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This won't be patched for DX10 until later 2007. Probably late Q3 at the earliest, at least according to the devs blogs.
 
I keep hearing Feb. 2007 on the R600.

Im holding off until the R600 and RD600 are in full swing. Not because Im necessarily looking forward to either one, its because the market competition usually provides at least some deals from each company to entice people. I'd love to build a system now with something like a 7900GT but I dont think I'd make enough money back when I sell the card and upgrade to DX10, and eVGA doesnt make ATI products as far as I know so the step-up program is out.

I'm coming from a 2600XP+, 4x AGP and 9800 Pro with 1 gig of ram so I think this will be a pretty hefty leap in performance and I'd like to get the most bang for my buck.
 
greyt_Autumn said:
This won't be patched for DX10 until later 2007. Probably late Q3 at the earliest, at least according to the devs blogs.
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Oh wow, so there is zero DX10 games... :rolleyes:
 
ANGRYEAGLE said:
Yeah, but who says the card you buy now will run DX 10 games worth a crap when they finally do come out? Better to wait it out IMO.
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You need to consider that DX10 games being developed, will use the existing hardware, to run them. This means the first batch of DX10 games, will run great on 8800's. This is exactly the same thing that happened, when ATI released the 9700 Pro, but for DX9.
 
yup, people who say dx10 games will run crap on first gen dx10 cards hvent followed history - ATI ruled DX9 when their cards came out and had no issues at all.
 
MrGuvernment said:
yup, people who say dx10 games will run crap on first gen dx10 cards hvent followed history - ATI ruled DX9 when their cards came out and had no issues at all.
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I don't know what history you're talking about.
 
MrGuvernment said:
yup, people who say dx10 games will run crap on first gen dx10 cards hvent followed history - ATI ruled DX9 when their cards came out and had no issues at all.
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are you forgetting nvidia's fx series?
 
Keep in mind that ATI will have had several months to dissect and study the 8800's....and tweak and tune R600 to either match it, or surpass it.
 
ATi will take there time for sure. Even febuary is looking a bit to early for them, I was one of the many that thought the X1950XTX was damn awesome & Nvidia couldn't beat it out by much when there 8x cards would hit. I felt pretty stuid however seeing how the 8x cards pretty much smashed anything it could do. We'll just have to wait, but Im sure they are seriously gonna try to play there cards right with this one.
 
Martyr said:
are you forgetting nvidia's fx series?
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The FX series simply wasn't powerful enough. Not only did they have to cope with the advent of DX9 games, but they were also too far ahead of their time in some terms. All FX chips offered mixed-precision modes, FP16 and FP32, which is believed wasn't effectively utilized at that time. DX9's minimum full precision is FP24, so the FX series attempted to surpass that too quickly without having the power to back it up. My guess is that FX cards render FP32 in too many cases (such as Half-Life 2, which, if you recall, may detect FX cards in SM2.0 mode and force full-time FP32, destroying the FX's potential performance. Also remember the obvious ATi/Valve alliance at that time). With a 128-bit interface, and only being able to push four pixels per clock (eight without a Z), the hardware was seriously limited. The 9700 Pro, however, was architecturally far more advanced.

The 8800 series is not like the FX series in any way. The hardware is sufficiently powerful enough for DX9 games and will be sufficiently powerful enough for DX10 games. The same goes for R600 (we hope).
 
that it was, the 9800 series was good, ATI milked the 9700 / 9800 series, but they were still all top cards over anything nvidia.
 
phide said:
The FX series simply wasn't powerful enough. Not only did they have to cope with the advent of DX9 games, but they were also too far ahead of their time in some terms. All FX chips offered mixed-precision modes, FP16 and FP32, which is believed wasn't effectively utilized at that time. DX9's minimum full precision is FP24, so the FX series attempted to surpass that too quickly without having the power to back it up. My guess is that FX cards render FP32 in too many cases (such as Half-Life 2, which, if you recall, may detect FX cards in SM2.0 mode and force full-time FP32, destroying the FX's potential performance. Also remember the obvious ATi/Valve alliance at that time). With a 128-bit interface, and only being able to push four pixels per clock (eight without a Z), the hardware was seriously limited. The 9700 Pro, however, was architecturally far more advanced.

The 8800 series is not like the FX series in any way. The hardware is sufficiently powerful enough for DX9 games and will be sufficiently powerful enough for DX10 games. The same goes for R600 (we hope).
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I'd like to say it was about time, that Nvidia got their foot stomped on by ATI for releasing a card that was generally 2x as fast as previous gens.

I was starting to get pissed off that every damn new vid release we were only 20-35% extra performance with just a hair bit more support, it was refreshing to see Nvidia get one uped like that, now we are getting far better competition from both teams, higher performance, better support, and more shit talking :D
 
That's_Corporate said:
9700 Pro pwned all
Best card ever
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QFT. That card brought ATI back into the game, and Nv had no response.

Also in my opinion it was the last "perfect first time" card that either side produced. I thought the 8800s would be the next, but it isn't.

I hope R600 ends up recapturing that glory, no weird issues, reasonable heat and power usage, stability and performance AT THE SAME TIME, ah for such a card.
 
MartinX said:
QFT. That card brought ATI back into the game, and Nv had no response.

Also in my opinion it was the last "perfect first time" card that either side produced. I thought the 8800s would be the next, but it isn't.

I hope R600 ends up recapturing that glory, no weird issues, reasonable heat and power usage, stability and performance AT THE SAME TIME, ah for such a card.
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Yeah I hope so too.
Cause if the R600 isn't that great, then I'll buy an 8800 GTX. And, based on how many problems people are reporting in the nVidia forum, I might have a lemon on my hands. Which would suck, cause I've owned old nVidia/Riva cards, and new ATi cards, and I've never had one go wrong, call me lucky!
 
The 9700 Pro was a nightmare for the first ppl that got it. Some ppl had the 11a revision boards, some 12, and had to RMA for a revision 13a silicon. Alot of the boards didn't have proper contact between heatsink and chip because of the shims on them. I just googled 9700 Pro Nightmare and Problems. No my friend, the 9700 was a problematic board. Thats why I specifically waited for the flawless 9800 series.(well other than different clocked XT's between brands.) I really remember all the problems on rage3d.com with the 9700 and it was NO joyride. ;)

The 9800 was what the 9700 was suppose to be silicon wise.
 
SnowBeast said:
The 9700 Pro was a nightmare for the first ppl that got it. Some ppl had the 11a revision boards, some 12, and had to RMA for a revision 13a silicon. Alot of the boards didn't have proper contact between heatsink and chip because of the shims on them. I just googled 9700 Pro Nightmare and Problems. No my friend, the 9700 was a problematic board. Thats why I specifically waited for the flawless 9800 series.(well other than different clocked XT's between brands.) I really remember all the problems on rage3d.com with the 9700 and it was NO joyride. ;)

The 9800 was what the 9700 was suppose to be silicon wise.
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That's news to me, I think it's an overstatement.
 
I don't ever remember having any problems with my 9700. Popped it in and it worked fine. Still works great.

With the specs we've seen leaked on R600 so far I'd say it's doubtful that performance will be very close to G80. When you have potentially double the memory bandwidth you'd have to imagine they designed the chip to actually make use of it. And with R600 being a second generation unified architecture I'd have to imagine most of the bugs have been somewhat ironed out.

The big question is what exactly ATI did that is making the card DX10.1 compliant.
 
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