DVI and analog

Z

zsec

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
330
i just bought my first lcd monitor and it came with 2 cables. one is the old school analog, and the other is a DVI cable. i googled DVI and it still left me with doubts, but the basic idea is that "it's better than analog".

when i compared the two, strangely the DVI cable gave me lower refresh rates :eek:dd:, the analog cable allows me to set a maximum refresh rate of 75hz while the DVI only allowed me to have a refresh rate of 60hz.

so! what's going on here? should i bother going DVI? because of now i see a downside of having DVI. i don't see a difference in image quality at all. will this change when i load up a game or analog + DVI = the same for gaming?


thanks for helping a newbie out!
 
Since the LCD's do not have a real "refresh" rate, the difference between 60hz and 75hz is basically.....nothing. Using DVI will result in perfect image geometry (no more using the auto adjust feature) as opposed to using the VGA which can be off center, rotated, etc.

DVI is typically better, although most modern VGA connections are pretty damn good. My son's pc uses an analog connection, looks great and no problems with geometry. The "auto adjust" works wonderful as far as centering the screen output and geometry.
 
zsec said:
so! what's going on here? should i bother going DVI? because of now i see a downside of having DVI. i don't see a difference in image quality at all. will this change when i load up a game or analog + DVI = the same for gaming?
Click to expand...

Digital is far superior for gaming, you will get less ghosting and better picture quality.

Look at it this way - your LCD is essentially a digital device. DVI provides a pure digital signal straight to the monitor so there is no chance of signal loss. With analog, there are several conversion points. The GPU is digital, then the video card converts the signal to analog. Then the monitor has to take that analog signal and convert it to digtal. The VGA cable will provide a small amount of loss as well, where a DVI cable will not. Video cards and monitors are getting better at handling the conversion, but in no way will it be as good as a pure digital connection.
 
thanks for replies. just put DVI-I back in, still don't see a difference but you guys know more than i do obviously :p
 
I tried both, you can't really notice the difference even in games. I know later on when SED comes out, then it'll be worth it to switch to DVI.
 
After trying both on my ViewSonic VX2025wm, I have to say that I agree. While DVI is indeed preferable, VGA looks much better than I thought it would. They're both neigh identical (at least on this monitor), though I have definitely seen differences. Gaming, of course, is hard to find differences in, since you're not so much focusing on image quality as you are the game itself. Where I've noticed the differences is in text, browsing online. Black text on white looks crisp, however some color combinations have a VERY faint bleed over at times.

Again, you have to be really looking for it AND know what you're looking for, I'm a graphic/web designer, and am just a more visually-oriented person, so I'd probably notice smaller flaws moreso than someone who isn't as visually dependant. In other words, while I, personally, needed to look for a monitor with a DVI connection, I doubt that an 'average' (whatever that means these days) person would care.
 
One big huge advantage using DVI over VGA...ClearType.


Right click your desktop, click Properties, then click Appearance, then click the Effects box on the lower right, and then check "Use the following method to smooth edges of screen fonts:" and select ClearType in the dropdown box.

After you do that and apply, you should see a BIG difference between DVI and VGA on an LCD, at least with text. ClearType doesn't work with VGA.
 
Croak said:
One big huge advantage using DVI over VGA...ClearType.


Right click your desktop, click Properties, then click Appearance, then click the Effects box on the lower right, and then check "Use the following method to smooth edges of screen fonts:" and select ClearType in the dropdown box.

After you do that and apply, you should see a BIG difference between DVI and VGA on an LCD, at least with text. ClearType doesn't work with VGA.
Click to expand...

Cleartype absolutely works with VGA.
 
Croak said:
One big huge advantage using DVI over VGA...ClearType.

ClearType doesn't work with VGA.
Click to expand...


News to me. It might not work as well, but it does work w/VGA.
 
It might not work as well, but it does work w/VGA.
Click to expand...

True. Though, I'm not a fan of it. I prefer the straight, crisp text.That's more of a web designer's perspective though... ;)
 
Hmm, I'm back to being unimpressed with ClearType. Mind you, I'm running on the VGA connection of my VX2025 (DVI broke, about to send it in for repairs), but it seems to get a bit of color between characters, even on the lightest setting.

I'll try it again when the DVI port gets fixed. I like the look of the font, but the loss of clarity isn't any fun. :(
 
Try this:

http://www.microsoft.com/typography/ClearTypePowerToy.mspx

Or visit here to do it in your browser if you don't want to download the powertoy:

http://www.microsoft.com/typography/cleartype/tuner/Step1.aspx

Even if the hardware is good, it could be that you are a bit color blind (some people who have problems with ClearType and feel it's blurry have a weak form of color blindness, which isn't all that uncommon).

But I think most people will find that ClearType helps a LOT

compare.gif
 
Thanks for the links. However, I've already installed the powertoy and used different configurations, all to the same effect.

I assure you I suffer no color blindness (I'd better not, being a designer... :eek: ). My problem with ClearType is that it adds a bunch of colors to the text. Were it all black, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Here's a super zoom of the image you just posted:



As you can see, it turns normal black text into a rainbow of garbage. If you can get ClearType to display text in only shades of gray, then I'm interested. Until then, it's off for me. :(
 
animasaki said:


As you can see, it turns normal black text into a rainbow of garbage. If you can get ClearType to display text in only shades of gray, then I'm interested. Until then, it's off for me. :(
Click to expand...
THANK YOU!!! I can't stand ClearType. Why get a LCD if you're going to turn cleartype on?

back to VGA/DVI. I think if your monitor lets you trully run 75hz in VGA and you use V-Sync on your games, then I would go for VGA especially since your screen sounds like it has a good analog circuits and you're not loosing much/any image quality. If you don't use V-Sync, forget it, use the benefit of DVI image perfection.
 
Here's a snippet from my post above, at somewhat actual size as I see it on my 1920x1080 display. The top of the image is with Cleartype on, the bottom is with it off.

cleartype1.png



And here it is blown up

cleartype2.png


Not quite so bad (and other than resizing, there's no filters or anything applied to those images, which is why I left in them in .png.)

The first ClearType example I made a few posts back, which I of course lifted from MSFT's page, is a .GIF, which greatly exaggerates the color issues when enlarged.

Personally, I can live with a little color artifacting (which I can ONLY see when it's greatly enlarged), in return for the greater clarity and readability of ClearType. That's my eyes and the majority of eyes, btw.

It's the very use of those colors, to fill in the subpixels where the text aliases (look at the W's for a worst case) that makes the text more legible and less fatiguing for most users. But ClearType does make an assumption, that your eyes are "standard" and translate color wavelengths in a certain way.

Not saying your viewpoint is wrong (pun intended), just saying you see ClearType differently than most people.
 
animasaki said:
My problem with ClearType is that it adds a bunch of colors to the text. Were it all black, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
As you can see, it turns normal black text into a rainbow of garbage. If you can get ClearType to display text in only shades of gray, then I'm interested. Until then, it's off for me. :(
Click to expand...



I AGREE, I can't stand cleartype....it makes (to me) some funny colored red looking edges especially on "i" and "t"...and I see this on LCD and CRT, with different graphics cards and driver versions. IT's in the cleartype, not my hardware (or maybe MY hardware ala my EYES) :D
 
I feel cleartype works in most circumstances, except the character is very small or a magnifier is used to examine the character.

It does add color, but it has to since it is how cleartype works - a sub-pixel antialias technique. In normal use, what you (well, people with extremely sharp eyes excluded :) ) see are not those individual color pixels, but a combined effect of those pixels. Btw, this is how all color monitors work, right?
 
Some gamers say they prefer 75hz to 60hz on LCD's because there is less mouse lag. I've never noticed the difference myself but I don't use LCD for gaming anymore.
After being an early adapter to LCD and buying two LCD monitors I have gone back to the clearly superior CRT. Just picked up a refurbished IBM P275 21" (Trinitron tube) and it is like music to my eyes. Now I can run at any resolution and it is always sharp, plus the blacks are actually black.
 
(which I can ONLY see when it's greatly enlarged)
Click to expand...

See, that's just it. I'm glad (?) that you have a hard time seeing the color artifacting. I can see it, it's annoying, and I don't understand why it can't just all be the original character's color.

Also, you blew up those screens incorrectly. There's all manner of blur going on. Here's a better comparison:

Normal size


Zoom


As you can see, the color problems are the same as in the .gif you posted. It's very pronounced. Mind you, I LOVE the smoothing that ClearType does, I just wish it did it in the original character's color. As it is, (to my eyes) it makes it look like there's something wrong with my monitor. :(
 
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