Dual vs. Single Band UniFi

J

johngalt

n00b
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
6
Greetings,

I have decided on getting a UniFi AP, but I can't decide which one.

Currently I have a ESXi Server running Astaro (Sophos) for my router. I have an Astaro AP 10 and have used a MikroTik 751U in the past as well. I currently live in an apartment so I have a lot of WiFi congestion/noise and I have a lot of wireless devices. How does the UniFi do in these congested areas? I use inSSIDer and sometimes channel 1 has no one and then it had a bunch of congestion. Same thing for channel 11. Channel 6 always has a log of congestion.

My apartment is 1400 square feet and was built in 2008. The exterior walls are brick, but the interior walls are the typical uninsulated drywall.

I typically have music streaming to all of the SqueezeBox devices with about 1-2 dropouts per day.

I don't watch movies or push large files on the iPad or iPhones. But browsing pictures on my file server from the MacBook Pro over wireless is very painful.

I currently don't have a POE switch. I plan on getting something in the future, but the difference of having "real" POE in the PRO vs. Ubnt passive POE isn't a deal breaker.

My priorities is HD streaming on my Roku from online as well as local files (Plex). The SqueezeBox network also needs to not have dropouts. I don't plan on being in the apartment for more than 6 months in which I would want the AP to work well in a 3-4 bedroom house. I could of course get another UniFi AP to expand coverage if needed.

  1. What do you recommend?
  2. The non-pro is just $70 on Amazon where the PRO is around $230 at various places. That is quite a difference. Is it worth it?
  3. A lot of my devices only support 802.11 b/g and one only supports 802.11b. Will this cause everything else to slow down?

Thanks!!


My wireless devices:

802.11 b/g/n (2.4Ghz and 5Ghz)
iPhone 5
iPad 3
iPad 2?
iMac (99% Wired)
MacBook Pro (10% Wired)

802.11 b/g/n (2.4Ghz Only)
iPhone 4
iPad 1
iPod Touch 4G
Dell E6410 (Mostly wired)
Roku 2 XS

802.11 b/g (No N!)
SqueezeBox Touch
SqueezeBox Radio x2
SqueezeBox Receiver
SqueezeBox Controller

802.11b (No G or N!)
FitBit Aria Wireless Scale (This should be off except twice a day when it uploads data which should take just seconds)
 
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You have problems....

  • When the Fitbit is on and connected the entire network will run at wireless B speeds. During that time your Roku will be useless, and anything using 2.4Ghz will be stuck in the digital slow lane.
  • When your Squeezebox equipment is on your network will run at wireless G speeds. Again, not ideal. HD resolutions on your Roku will probably not work.
  • Duel Band will give you a 5Ghz untouched high speed wireless N connection, but your Roku can't use 5Ghz.
My suggestion.....get (2) Unifi's. Put one on channel 1 and the other on channel 11.

Use separate SSIDs. Place all the slow equipment on one that has wireless B/G mode enabled.

Have the other Unifi configured for wireless N only.

The pro model has a little more onboard RAM (for future use), supports 5Ghz wireless N with a second built in radio, is built a little better and support normal POE.
 
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Unless you have very specific requirements I'd go for a TP-Link WDR3600 with OpenWRT as AP along with your older AP. Atheros hardware (like the TP-Link) works good in congested areas in my experience and it's a cheap way of getting dual band. Streaming HD (20+ Mbit) is usually a bit unstable over Wifi and even more issues if you have a congested 2.4Ghz-net.
//Danne
 
Thanks for the replies!

The FitBit lasts for I think a year on 4 AA batteries, so the duty cycle has got to be close to 0.01%. I will be unlikely watching a movie and weighting myself on the scale so that might be okay. If it is a problem I can return the FitBit and get a wireless scale that supports 802.11g at least.

Any other possible solutions? How far away should the two APs be?

Thanks for all the ideas!
 
If the Fitbit is connected to the network.....it doesn't have to be transmitting or recieving.....ALL traffic on the wireless network will be downgraded to wireless B speeds.

So the Fitbit must either be manually disconnected or turned 100% off to not affect the network.

The two wireless APs should be a couple of feet apart, but as long as they are set to a non adjecent channel. 1, 6 or 11. They should not interfere with each other. Just make sure that non of your neighbors wireless APs are interfering either.

Use the software inSSIDer to check for other APs in the area.
 
Thanks for the clarification Mackintire.

The FitBit is a wireless scale. I just ordered it so I can't verify, but I believe it only turns on when you step on it. After you get off the scale it should physically shut off within a minute or so. It is battery operated and I think 4 AA last several months to a year so it must turn the radio off when not in use.

The SqueezeBoxes are always on the network so it is good to know that I have likely never seen 802.11n speeds as I am stuck on G.

Thanks!
 
I've posted this before, but you might find it useful.

These are "THE BEST" of real world expectations when using wireless G and N.

A perfect wireless G connection will negotiate at 54mbit and have approximately 18mbps of usable throughput.

A perfect (20mhz mode) wireless N connection will negotiate at 144mbps and have approximately 90mbps of usable throughput.


A perfect (40mhz mode) wireless N connection almost never works...but if it did would negotiate at 300mbps and have approx 160mbps of usable throughput.

5 Ghz usually has more available non-overlapping (adjacent) channels, less noise and interference, but has a more difficult time penetrating walls/floors, as a result 5 Ghz usually has a lower usable distance than 2.4 Ghz in a residential setting.
 
I had serious issues with 5Ghz in my house (1893, brick walls and plaster). The attenuation @ the higher frequency was just too much. I installed a UniFi Long Range AP (2.4Ghz only) and it works fantastic, even with a large amount of 2.4Ghz "noise".

Because of your older devices I agree with the comment of getting more than one, and having multiple SSIDs.
 
That is great to hear!

I won't bother spending 3 times as much for the Pro version.

Is there any reason not to get the Long Range version? I assume I can just turn down the power if needed. The $15 extra seems like great insurance just in case I need to turn it up. However, I doubt I will need the range/power.
 
Keep in mind that the LR or Long Range version doesn't actually put out more power (per say)

What it does do is focus the vertical power output in the horizonal plane. In essence the normal Unifi, if ceiling mounted will radiate outward and down into the floor below.

The the LR, if mounted on the ceiling will not radiate into the floor below as strongly.

If you have a single floor home either model will work. If you have a multi floor home....the LR might cause you some issues on the other floor....but it also depends on your position relative to the AP.
 
Thanks. I didn't know the antenna's were different.

In that case I think I will go with the LR model. My apartment is just 1 floor and if our future house is multi floor I can put the LR on the bottom floor to try to cover the yard and I can always put another non LR AP upstairs.

Thanks!
 
I think getting the UniFI PRO is the only way anyone should go. Dual band is a good reason for that, so is the Gigabit port. You'll actually see the benefit of MIMO given all the apple devices you're running, in addition to the fact that nearly all newer apple products are fully capable of using 40mhz. And actually using the 802.3af standard if you've got POE.

Furthermore, since you live in an apartment complex, you WANT 5ghz but need the compatibility backward for your 2.4 B/G devices.
 
I agree dual band would be great.

The $210 price tag is just harder to swallow than a $70 price tag for the UniFi.
 
All the Unifi's support MIMO. Dual Band is useful is you need uncongested channels....I still suggest you run inSSIDer and decide for yourself.

The gigabit port is useless unless unless you have duel radios or use 40mhz mode.

Physical ethernet is not measured the same way wireless is for connectivity. 100mbps ethernet can move 200mbps of data, 100mbps in each direction. Where when I stated above 20mhz mode wireless N can only move 90Mbps thats combined direction. So if you are moving data in both directions you only get 45mbps in each direction. So the 100mbps port on the Unifi is not holding the unit back.

The 1000mbps port on the Unifi pro, is nice but keep in mind that you would have to be using 100% of the 2.4Ghz spectrum and some of the 5Ghz spectrum all that the same time to push more data than a 100mbit ethernet port can handle.

802.3af is very important if you are installing a pile of Unifi's but to cry over having to use the Ubiquiti provided POE adapter for your ONLY Unifi AP??? It's not really worth it.

Of course....That all changes if you have multiple 802.3af powered devices on your network.



Lastly I can not tell you how many people try to get 40mhz mode working reliably and correctly....most people can't. If you live in the middle of nowhere, AND are less then 30' from the AP with no walls....it is possible that you will measure the improvement. Your AP and your client have to deal with MIMO and channel bonding while using a half-duplex protocol.... it just doesn't work well with a low signal or interference. Part of the reason is because the APs are hard coded to behave and drop the second 20mhz of the channel when they detect ANY interference.

I can't even begin to tell you how many people start their posts out with: "Help, I purchased a new router and my wireless sucks." Lo and behold 40Mhz mode was turned on and happened to have neighbors with wireless APs that were interfering with their new router/AP.


802.11 fixes some of those issues, and introduces others, but might be quite usable in the 5Ghz range for 150-300mbps of usable bandwith in a quiet wireless setting.

Anyhow...I 'm done for today. Be cautious of all of this advice. Research and verify what you read here.

Good Luck,

Mackintire
 
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Yes, but the Pro has 3x3 on 2.4ghz compared to 2x2 on the std/lr. It also has a 3db higher transmit power and I would assume a more sensitive receiver.

I manage wireless in an environment similar to an apt complex and can tell you first hand the difference that having 5ghz and a proper installation can make. I use 40mhz on 5ghz all over campus with great success.

With 40mhz working, saturating a 100mb port is quite easy.

The deciding factors for a successful deployment are channel availability and the client device. Most newer Macbooks & iOS devices do indeed support 40mhz.
 
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I was under the impression that most of the client devices built up to last year only had 2x2 connected.

I've also not seen any data supporting significant improvements in throughout when using 3x3 as opposed to 2x2. I'd imagine the throughput would be more stable, but how much more significant I really don't have the experience to say.

I can understand and agree 5Ghz probably works well in an open setting, but In a typical building how well has 5Ghz worked for you? At what distance?

You hit the nail on the head with you "channel availability comment" That itself will make or break a wireless deployment.
 
We plan most of the wireless on campus for density, so coverage is usually pretty good. Most areas we try for a -65 on 5ghz, so the range is fairly short. The WAPs we use implement band-steering which delays the beacon response on the 2.4ghz range, which means that most clients that are 5ghz capable connect to it first. If we are forced to place access points in areas with brick walls or other obstructions its obviously not as strong. Many of the areas are study areas where users are within ~15 yards of an access point.

Plus it doesn't hurt that we have a fantastic wireless product on campus :)
 
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