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dual pump?

W

wtiger

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 21, 2004
Messages
1,600
I have been seriously considering building a custon water cooling setup; because I would like to give it a try and want better cooling than my exos is providing. I was thinking about running a dual pump configuration for redundancy/safety is there any real disadvantages to this other than a little added heat? say 1 small 90-100 sumodd gph pump just before the loop pulling from the reservoir and one just after pushing into the reservoir? added redundancy and pressure seems like it'd make it an excellent idea, but just wanted to sound off to you guys and see if anyone knows for sure the +'s and -'s of a setup like this.
 
If you want the double pumps for redundancy I would put the pumps in parallel, since I am not too sure about how well water flows through a dead pump and what type of restriction that would add. Running pumps in parallel increases overall flow, while running pumps in series increases overall head pressure. And the exos uses two small pumps if i recall correctly, so you really wouldn't see much of a performance increase using two tiny 100gph pumps.
 
i have an EXOX -AL and also just got tired of it!! HaHa

i decided to keep the exos to cool my GPU and buy and new setup for my CPU.

decided on:
Swiftech 650 pump
D-tech White water block
and DD Black ice Extreme 2 radiator

so i will have 2 completley seperate loops.

can't wait till it all comes in!!!
 
what pump would be the best with being 12v, low noise, relatively compact and capable of 150+ gph?
 
wtiger said:
what pump would be the best with being 12v, low noise, relatively compact and capable of 150+ gph?
Click to expand...

mcp350 / Laing DDC / DD DDC-12V (Same pump different names) is definitely where you want to go. The thing is nearly silent, absolutely tiny, provides right around 150 gph and a whole lot of head pressure. You can do a relatively simple mod to the mcp350 to gain about 70% more flow at the loss of about 3% of the head pressure. Overall a great pump.
 
thanks. I figure if nothing else if I want more flow I could just use 2 smaller pumps in parallel. Something like the Swiftech 650 pump just seemed like too much and along with the 40+ db makes it an unappealing choice.
 
Erasmus354 said:
If you want the double pumps for redundancy I would put the pumps in parallel, since I am not too sure about how well water flows through a dead pump and what type of restriction that would add. Running pumps in parallel increases overall flow, while running pumps in series increases overall head pressure. And the exos uses two small pumps if i recall correctly, so you really wouldn't see much of a performance increase using two tiny 100gph pumps.
Click to expand...

This post should be deleted. It defies logic.
 
killernoodle said:
This post should be deleted. It defies logic.
Click to expand...

What part of it defies logic?

If you have two identical pumps, run them in parallel then you will get roughly the same head pressure but a greater maximum flow.

If you run the two identical pumps in series you will get roughly the same maximum flow but a much increased head pressure. It is simple physics.

As to the first part...if you have water running through a loop with two pumps in series, and one of them dies, then that pump is no longer working to move the water through the loop, instead it has become a source of restriction. If the pumps are in series, the water will bypass the dead pump and almost all will flow through the part with the live pump. It is the same principle that christmas lights work on, if the lights are in series, and one goes dead, all the lights go out, if they are parallel and one goes dead than the rest keep running.

Please dont start flaming when you obviously have no clue wth you are talking about.

PS http://www.systemcooling.com/images/reviews/LiquidCooling/cs_pump/image16big.jpg that graph will show you everything you need to know.
 
what annoys me is people saying you would get better flow before/after the res. Dont imagine a pump as being like the rad or something. Imagine it as just being a magical part of the tubing that makes water flow, even if your pumpis right before your res, it wont "Push" Water into the res because a pumps flow direction doesnt change depending on where you put it. If the pulling tube insert is stilll connected to the res, (Even if it's through 2 Blocks, and a radiator, just imagine them all as diffrent pieces of tubing) it will still Pull the water from the res, and so forth.

So ya, And also, a dual pump would generate more noise and heat

http://www.frozencpu.com/ex-pmp-23.html

Get a single of those pump, they work great (I actually have oe, the block version, In one of my vivariums, It workes pretty well for an inline pump)
 
Think I found what I want to do for the pump. A dual modded MCP 350 in parallel. Should be much quieter than anything with the d4 pump and outflow it by a good margine also. All while using less power and inserting less heat into the loop. They should only use 17 watts compared to the 12v d4 based pumps 24 watts and should also be much quieter 26db or there abouts compared to the 34db of a d4 based pump. They'll cost a bit more and take more work with the modding, but it seems to be a better combination of what I want. I want great cooling with near total silence.
 
Erasmus354 said:
What part of it defies logic?

If you have two identical pumps, run them in parallel then you will get roughly the same head pressure but a greater maximum flow.

If you run the two identical pumps in series you will get roughly the same maximum flow but a much increased head pressure. It is simple physics.

As to the first part...if you have water running through a loop with two pumps in series, and one of them dies, then that pump is no longer working to move the water through the loop, instead it has become a source of restriction. If the pumps are in series, the water will bypass the dead pump and almost all will flow through the part with the live pump. It is the same principle that christmas lights work on, if the lights are in series, and one goes dead, all the lights go out, if they are parallel and one goes dead than the rest keep running.

Please dont start flaming when you obviously have no clue wth you are talking about.

PS http://www.systemcooling.com/images/reviews/LiquidCooling/cs_pump/image16big.jpg that graph will show you everything you need to know.
Click to expand...


A pump is not very restrictive (far less restrictive than a waterblock, they have no reason to be restrictive). Think about this though (which you have obviously looked over):

Because most pumps are not restrictive to flow, running them in parallel has no problems until one dies. When this happens, tha majority of the flow will run loops between the pumps. It will take the path of least resistance, and this path will be backwards through the dead pump. Running them inline guarentees that the only path the water can take is through the loop in the likelihood of pump failure. Thus: if you run them parallel you will get vastly less flow through the loop when one fails than if you run them in series.

Also, head pressure is far more important in modern cooling systems anyways. Also, the graph you provided proves that running them inline is more effective than running them parallel anyways, 40gph vs nearly 6ft of head pressure increase.

The christmas lights deal has nothing to do with water flow.
 
you guys keep getting me to change my mind....... I guess when the time comes I'll have to try both and see how both setups work. What kind of head pressure does a couple waterblocks and a rad add anyway? I know it can very a good bit, but higher pressure is more important than throughput at what point?
 
If you are using any waterblock they will benefit from higher pressure more than higher flow (you will actually achieve higher flow by higher pressure).
 
ok. Thanks. I think I see. Basically parallel would be great if you had a very low restriction system, but given that a lot of blocks are designed for high turbulance they benefit more from the higher head pressure and will actually generate a higher flow than a lower pressure high flow pump setup with the same higher resistance blocks. All other things being equal. Like in my planned setup.
 
series wont always perform better than parallel, if you have a system with one radiator and one cpu block the parallel loop will actually get about 8gph better flow :) Not much but it is still better. That is for the case with the CSP pumps though, I haven't seen data on the mcp350 run in parallel/series.
 
I was planning on 2 waterblocks though cpu and video card and possibly 2 120mm radiators also depending on what the temps of the single radiator net for me. I want it all internal for easy transport and a clean look so it kind of eleminated the idea of a simple 2 fan 120mm radiator or large heatercore w/o signigicant modification to the case.
 
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