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doubling radiator....

C

collegeboy69us

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Messages
5,255
hi all

i have a koolance PC-650C i think thats it anyways, the 12" aluminuum radiator leaves a little to be desired... its so thin!, i was curious as to: if i bought another radiator exacly the same as that, and got longer bolts and just kinda double stacked them to where it flows in one... then the 2nd one, would that effectively double the heat dissapation?

Would that be something you could reccommend doing?

reason i ask this is because i wannna beef up this koolance a bit more but wanna keep things as simple as possible. I'm considering getting a new pump, and res, still looking at options. I want to keep everything as simple and clean as possible. Keeping in mind i wanna keep everything aluminum too (dont wanna mix copper and AL at ALL)

I'm open to any and all advice :)

oh yes, reason i bought the koolance case? it looked awesome to me, and besides who doesnt like a little fixer upper ;)

THanks
Jeff
 
Originally posted by collegeboy69us
...i have a koolance PC-650C i think thats it anyways, the 12" aluminuum radiator leaves a little to be desired... its so thin!, i was curious as to: if i bought another radiator exacly the same as that, and got longer bolts and just kinda double stacked them to where it flows in one... then the 2nd one, would that effectively double the heat dissapation?
Click to expand...


You're talking about heat exchangers set up in series. Yes, that would increase the ability to eliminate waste heat.

Would that be something you could reccommend doing?
Click to expand...


Short answer: no, I would not recommend this on your current setup.

The reason: any component you add to a watercooling loop, including tubing, will contribute to what is known as "pipe flow head loss." It is pressure that is the most important factor in moving the coolant through the loop. Radiators, if I recall correctly, are one of the greatest sources of pressure loss in a cooling loop.

I do not know what the performance of the Koolance pump is, but I would be willing to bet that it would not be able to handle the addition of a second heat exchanger.

reason i ask this is because i wannna beef up this koolance a bit more but wanna keep things as simple as possible. I'm considering getting a new pump, and res, still looking at options. I want to keep everything as simple and clean as possible. Keeping in mind i wanna keep everything aluminum too (dont wanna mix copper and AL at ALL)

I'm open to any and all advice :)
Click to expand...

The Koolance units aren't exactly known for superior performance. You may also have problems adding components, like pumps or alternate heat exchangers. These would require modding the case in some way. If you feel up to it, perhaps you could increase the performance of your system by doing the following:

Install a new pump: Eheim 1250, Danner Mag 3 (or Mag 5), or Hydor L30. These have better performance than the Koolance units, but also may take up more space.

Purchase a transmission cooler, if you want to keep everything made of Al. These can be rather expensive, at least the ones I saw at O'Reilly Autoparts were. Automotive heatercores are better suited to watercooling systems, and can be purchased from places like D-Tek Customs.

I'm not sure why you want to keep everything made of Al. Isn't the base of the Koolance waterblock made of copper?
 
all the new koolance blocks are gold plated and mirror finished
 
hmm...sounds like a good idea to lap that gold plate off the base at least....gold is a worse heat conductor than copper.
 
eh, seems like more trouble than its worth. if he's not satisfied with the koolance's performance he should just put together a diy kit of some sort.
 
thanks for the input...

the last system i had was watercooled with DIY parts, but i must admit it was a very sloppy job. It worked fine, but i'm also one for looks in a system as well.

the reason i wanted to keep everything AL was on the instance of running another radiator in series.

I do have the experience for modding out a case to get parts to fit etc. The reason i went with koolance was that one, it was a bigger case then my last one. Looked nice from the start.

I have old parts sitting around here in my room from my last two systems, a copper heatercore, and also a 12" aluminujm radiator. I would have to invest in a good pump though. What would be your reccomendations for a QUIET pump... and one that would be very easy to hook into my system so that when i hit the power button the pump is automatically turned on (just like it is now in my system)

Thanks
Jeff
 
Originally posted by collegeboy69us
Keeping in mind i wanna keep everything aluminum too (dont wanna mix copper and AL at ALL)
Click to expand...
You're already mixing copper and aluminum. So you shouldn't let that affect any decisions you make.
 
For a pump, eheim 1250, go to highspeedpc (i think) and buy the pump quieting feet. You can make a relay for the thing for practically nil that you cna just velcro to the side of the pump nobody will be looking at.
 
*sigh* okay when i say i dont wanna mix copper and AL, i mean i dont want them to be creating the battery effect... i.e. raw copper and raw aluminum. i know my blocks have a coppper base, but the gold plating kinda negates the fact of me having to worry about that battery effect.\

Yes i know there is crap out there that can help minimize the battery effect, but i would just rather not have to deal with it.

My case already has a pump relay inside of it, the koolance case... when i hit the power button, the pumps automatically turn on :D all i gotta do is rip out the old pumps and wire the new one in.
 
Mixing copper and aluminum doesn't mean you're automatically going to have corrosion. Antifreeze and that stuff included with your system both have anti corrosion additives to prevent this from happening. Koolance would not rely on a very thin gold plating to keep the system from corroding.
 
Is the gold plating on all copper surfaces, inside and outside? Or is it only on the surfaces exposed to the air?
 
gold plating on 100% of the block inside and out.


and ive mixed copper and aluminum parts before, antifreeze etc doesnt always do its job (yes i used the proper amounts) besides that i hate my lines getting discolored.
 
im wondering if it would be possible to add another radiator to the koolance exos.
 
Originally posted by kronchev
HAHA

too bad gold has terrible heat transfer
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It doesn't really matter, the gold coating is probably only a few microns thick, that's not going to affect heat transfer. On the other hand, the gold won't oxidize in air like copper does. Copper oxide is probably much worse than gold, so maybe the gold plating is actually beneficial.
 
Originally posted by zer0signal667
It doesn't really matter, the gold coating is probably only a few microns thick, that's not going to affect heat transfer. On the other hand, the gold won't oxidize in air like copper does. Copper oxide is probably much worse than gold, so maybe the gold plating is actually beneficial.
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a few microns sure DOES matter.

as for copper oxide, it never does that unless you have it sitting exposed to air for a long, long time, and you should clean it off BEFORE you put it on ALWAYS. it shouldnt oxidize on the heatsink because the heatsink on the die shouldnt be hitting the air, since its against the die
 
Originally posted by kronchev
a few microns sure DOES matter.

as for copper oxide, it never does that unless you have it sitting exposed to air for a long, long time, and you should clean it off BEFORE you put it on ALWAYS. it shouldnt oxidize on the heatsink because the heatsink on the die shouldnt be hitting the air, since its against the die
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Gold's thermal conductivity is ~320 W/m*K, that of copper is ~400 W/m*K. Lets assume a coating thickness of 2 microns, which is considered a "heavy gold plate" in the jewelry industry. You're telling me that a 0.000002m coating of gold, which has a thermal conductivity of 80% of copper's, is going to make a noticeable difference?

And there is always going to be a small layer of oxide, which cleaning with alcohol does not remove.
 
Originally posted by zer0signal667
Gold's thermal conductivity is ~320 W/m*K, that of copper is ~400 W/m*K. Lets assume a coating thickness of 2 microns, which is considered a "heavy gold plate" in the jewelry industry. You're telling me that a 0.000002m coating of gold, which has a thermal conductivity of 80% of copper's, is going to make a noticeable difference?

And there is always going to be a small layer of oxide, which cleaning with alcohol does not remove.
Click to expand...

who seriously thought you could remove oxide with rubbing alcohol? i sure didnt.

and i guess youre right about the coating, but still, its a little too much for me. remember its yet ANOTHER layer that heat has to go through. you cant put processor-copper-copper and expect it to cool as well as processor-copper
 
If you stacked the radiators you would need to run the hot water through the 2nd then the first to get the best results. you would see about a 1.5X improvement in heat removal.

If in parallel you would see a 2.0x improvement, although this is all theoretical.
 
The same guy who wanted to put an eheim on a 1/4 inch setup. This explains the origin of that thread :rolleyes:

Dude. Get rid of the Koolance. It's obvious you know it's shit compared to a DIY rig. Take some time and do it right. Gawd.
 
Originally posted by Evil Result
If you stacked the radiators you would need to run the hot water through the 2nd then the first to get the best results. you would see about a 1.5X improvement in heat removal.

If in parallel you would see a 2.0x improvement, although this is all theoretical.
Click to expand...

That's not really true... heat transfer would not vary linearly. I don't know how you get 1.5 in the first case... but that depends on many many factors concerning water and airflow, as well as heat input of the system. In parallel, there is the same difficulty, both water and airflow must be considered but they are affected differently.
 
Originally posted by kronchev
you cant put processor-copper-copper and expect it to cool as well as processor-copper
Click to expand...

The cpu-copper-copper setup you mentioned is the same as cpu-copper in this setup. The gold is electroplated on, which means there is no air gaps. It's basically as good of a cantact as you can possibly get. If you electroplate copper to copper, you still end up with a solid copper block.

The only loss of cooling is form that thin layer of gold..but that layer is so thin that I would assume that it's insulative value is quite low. Sure it's not eh best, but I don't htink it's going to make any big difference either.
 
wow lots of bickering here...

anways, thanks for the input :)

to you mwarps... damn dude chill. I dont have to justify my purchase to you. You dont know my situation for shit, im in a college dorm right now and don't have all the sweet ass tools and workshop stuff i have access to at home so i bought something quick simple, and im my opinion, looks pretty damn good. You should just keep your mouth shut if you dont have anything good to say, besides what the hell is so wrong with taking something I have and trying to make it better, thats why we are all here right?

just because i don't do things your way is no reason to crap on the thread.


thanks to everyone else :)
 
It's all good, threadd Hijaacks are all the norm here...often koolance threads are notorious for being hijaacked...gotta be the bling-bling gold plate on the blocks :p
 
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