Doom Vulkan/Open GL IQ Comparison

[Stev3FrencH]

So with AMD looking so good now that Vulkan improves framerate in Doom, I am wondering if [H] would consider an IQ comparison? I remember back when Battlefield 4 came out and Mantle was the new hottness that when comparing the IQ of the game in DX11 and Ultra settings versus Mantle and Ultra Settings, the game didn't look as good in terms of effect quality. However, Mantle did show increased performance, mainly because of the reduced IQ I think it was assumed. Not trying to start another AMD vs. Nvidia thread, I am just genuinely curious if this is something [H] has thought about looking into. I really hope the IQ looks the same because honestly, I am tried of Nvidia not having any competition. I know myself and many others would be interested in seeing the data.

 

[Armenius]

I would love to see a review as well, as I believe this is the first full commercial game using Vulkan.

 

[DPI]

I think it's great that Vulkan in DOOM boosts the perception of AMD hardware by some metrics - though probably only temporarily since Nvidia is unlikely to sit still - but unfortunately Vulkan isn't the savior of AMD's graphics division or rocketsled to being more competitive with NV.

I'd love to be wrong though, and if AMD both embraces Vulkan and there's a critical enough mass of Vulkan titles that AMD has the better value-for-money ratio in, I'd absolutely reconsider buying a red card.

 

[funks]

You would think that people would use Vulkan more given that it's released and has proved worthy in a AAA title. If I were an ISV, I'd target moving to it instead of Direct X 12 - at least that way, Windows 10 ain't a requirement and it'll be closer to multi-platform support (eq. Linux and SteamOS).

 

[chenw]

Also, would be great if we could do a "Best-vs-Best", as in comparison of performance between whichever mode nVidia cards perform best in vs whichever mode AMD cards perform in.

This is probably the second most important metric for me, AMD supporting Vulkan like no tomorrow is excellent news, but it is going to be a moot point if it still can't beat nVidia when played in its best mode.

 

[FlawleZ]

I think it's great that Vulkan in DOOM boosts the perception of AMD hardware by some metrics - though probably only temporarily since Nvidia is unlikely to sit still - but unfortunately Vulkan isn't the savior of AMD's graphics division or rocketsled to being more competitive with NV.

I'd love to be wrong though, and if AMD both embraces Vulkan and there's a critical enough mass of Vulkan titles that AMD has the better value-for-money ratio in, I'd absolutely reconsider buying a red card.

It's not a situation where the glass is half full or half empty. Vulkan offers real performance gains utilizing async compute. The reality is the green team better make some changes either with price or performance unless something keeps Vulkan from prevailing.

 

[Reality]

I think it's great that Vulkan in DOOM boosts the perception of AMD hardware by some metrics - though probably only temporarily since Nvidia is unlikely to sit still - but unfortunately Vulkan isn't the savior of AMD's graphics division or rocketsled to being more competitive with NV.

I'd love to be wrong though, and if AMD both embraces Vulkan and there's a critical enough mass of Vulkan titles that AMD has the better value-for-money ratio in, I'd absolutely reconsider buying a red card.

What does this post have to do with the OP?

 

[Araxie]

Im sorry to mess with all the overhype about AMD DX12/Vulkan uber performance, the simply and easier way to understand facts are this: AMD have a poor DX11 performance, OpenGL it's even Worse, when all the driver overhead and shitty overall driver performance is removed then the perception of a BIG boost is noted, however that's not entirely true.

AMD have amazing hardware held back by the driver team and lack of budget to invest in solve their DX11 deficiencies which then again make a false perception that they receive big boost from new APIs when the ugly truth is they just have a poor performance under DX11.

Im gona quote myself a post I made couple of days ago about this same topic and should be good if a lot of people remove the ignorance mask of their face and start to understand some facts, because that's the reason Nvidia gains seems to be little to non-existent and is just because their card have an efficient DX11 performance.

Admittedly this is not matter of this thread but even in less than 10 replies there are post about the great AMD performance boost and DPI used a word that totally draw my attention and was "perception".

On a side note, is not like nvidia lack of performance with these new APIs, they just work as intended under DX11 as good as DX12/Vulkan, unlike AMD which have poor DX11 performance so at the end the gains seems to be greater when isn't simply the case. this is something I have always said everywhere, AMD have great hardware, they design amazing GPUs what kill AMD is the fact that they can't invest as Nvidia in driver development and optimizations.

Nvidia invested a ton of money sometime ago when they decreased driver overhead, don't you remember that? it was the 337.50 "wonder driver" where they was able to achieve from a minim 10% performance increase to some big 40% performance increase by just decreasing the driver overhead this is a key point when comparing nvidia DX11 versus DX12 performance and this is the reason why low-end CPUs even on dx11 tend to perform better with nvidia cards.They solved DX11 inefficiencies without the need of a new API unlike AMD (mantle) this is something that only AMD can dream to realize. So again is not like AMD have bigger gains than Nvidia, its just a fact that lot of people seems to ignore and is that Nvidia cards work as intended under DX11..

the entire Nvidia article GeForce 337.50 Beta Performance Drivers Increase Frame Rates By Up To 71% | GeForce

View attachment 5256

 

[Riptide_NVN]

Way to turn a positive into a negative. The NVidia spin masters are busy snatching defeat from the jaws of victory for AMD. You guys should work for the white house press secretary.

 

[Bowman15]

Way to turn a positive into a negative. The NVidia spin masters are busy snatching defeat from the jaws of victory for AMD. You guys should work for the white house press secretary.

People keep denying all they want but a-sync computing is going to play a major part in the new gaming api's going forward so everybody better get on board. The time for stomping your feet and saying it's not relevant is gone.

 

[pendragon1]

I wish people would get unstuck from the async is everything thought. its not JUST async that is responsible for the improvements it the entire api change. yes async contributes to it but it is only 5-10% of the ~30% improvement. seems like arguing for the sake of arguing.
but back on topic... has anyone seen any side-by-side comparisons of IQ?

edit: corrected speeling

 

[GameLifter]

I wish people would get unstuck from the async is everything thought. its not JUST async that is responsible for the improvements it the entire api change. yes async contributes to it but it is only 5-10% of the ~30% improvement. seems like arguing for the sack of arguing.
but back on topic... has anyone seen any side-by-side comparisons of IQ?

Closest thing I've seen is the pictures people have been posting in forum threads showing their performance gains versus OpenGL. I couldn't tell a difference.

 

[Riptide_NVN]

Does ID say 5-10%? Where is the figure coming from?

 

[pendragon1]

the 5-10% is gathered from myself and others showing results with async on/off.

edit: and it was a generalization not just in doom.

 

[primetime]

I would think its really tough to do these IQ Articles since its hard to capture slight differences in screenshots....But who knows though? If i had to guess, there IS a slight difference, but nothing that would bug me. How exactly does TSSAA compare to MSAA in other titles? (or whatever doom uses)

 

[FrameBuffer]

"Mantle did show increased performance, mainly because of the reduced IQ I think it was assumed"

So if I understand correct, the OP assumption is because AMD is getting such huge gains in performance (compared to NV) that somehow AMD is cheating by lowering IQ ?

Edit: BTW the supposed "cheat" (image degradation) was a bug acknowledged by Dice/John Anderson and was resolved with no impact to performance:

the main visual differences were arrtibuted to Gamma and Contrast

Bf4 : Screenshot Comparison


/looks at OP sig..
ah ok that splains it.. /snark

 

[Stev3FrencH]

"Mantle did show increased performance, mainly because of the reduced IQ I think it was assumed"

So if I understand correct, the OP assumption is because AMD is getting such huge gains in performance (compared to NV) that somehow AMD is cheating by lowering IQ ?

Edit: BTW the supposed "cheat" (image degradation) was a bug acknowledged by Dice/John Anderson and was resolved with no impact to performance:

the main visual differences were arrtibuted to Gamma and Contrast

Bf4 : Screenshot Comparison


/looks at OP sig..
ah ok that splains it.. /snark

If you actually read what I was saying, I just want to see if there is the same IQ using Vulkan vs OpenGL. Just because myself and a majority of the PC market runs Nvidia hardware does not mean we all want to see AMD fail. In fact I feel alot of Nvidia users including myself want to see them start to compete like this again with Nvidia in all areas, then we won't be left with one option in the high end market. If you are going to blindly accept the performance gains that is fine, but many of us like our games to look good and run good. I personally don't give a shit if I am getting a performance upgrade when the image looks sub-par. That is what I would like to know if [H] would be willing to find out for us. Gimme dem frames and dat eye candy.

 

[Armenius]

Way to turn a positive into a negative. The NVidia spin masters are busy snatching defeat from the jaws of victory for AMD. You guys should work for the white house press secretary.

It wasn't turning a positive into a negative. What is being said is that AMD makes great GPU architecture, but it was being held back on the software side of things. The reason Hawaii and Tonga still have legs is because the driver team has finally caught up to be at parity with NVIDIA as far as DX11 goes, while these new APIs are able to unleash the performance that has always been there for AMD. I see Vulkan and DX12 as great equalizers, bringing much needed competition back into the discrete GPU market.

I sorely hope that AMD can take it to NVIDIA with Vega 10 to get their pricing and Founders Edition nonsense under control.

 

[memphist0]

I've seen a few benchmarks where Vulcan is quite a bit faster than OGL but I still haven't seen it compared directly against DirectX. Does anyone have some links?

 

[JustReason]

I've seen a few benchmarks where Vulcan is quite a bit faster than OGL but I still haven't seen it compared directly against DirectX. Does anyone have some links?

I don't think there is a dx11 path. Could be wrong but haven't seen a single mention of DX11.