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Doom 3 Watercooling Path

A

aphexddb

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
79
With Doom 3 coming up I have decided to suck it up and finally upgrade my slow-ass pc. I'm not in school anymore so I can finally satisfy that itch for bleeding edge overlcocking :) I remember last december HardOCP posted a recommended computer upgrade guide for those who hadn't been keeping up with all the new hotness out there, that thing was gravy. I have checked out some review sites looking for a definitive "pimp watercooled setup" and can't seem to find the end-all of water cooling setups. So its time to ask the [H]ard pimps out there for some recommendations. I'm looking for the best watercooling path to go, with the best cpu, gpu, etc. Not looking to go 64 bit with the CPU though. The old and busted non-watercooled setup is: Athlon XP 1800 / 512 DDR / PNY Ti 4400...yeah.. upgrade time.

I'm thinking a kit (ala Danger Den, etc) might be the way to go on this. I also plan on watercooling the GPU as well.
 
So this is my current shopping cart

Computer Components: (newegg.com )

ABIT "NF7-S" nForce2 Chipset Motherboard
AMD Athlon XP 3000+ "Barton", 400 FSB, 512K
512 OCZ Enhanced Latency Series Platinum Edition RAM (2x)
Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive (2x)
18-Inch, 90-Degree-Angled, SATA Cables (2x)
Coolmax Serial ATA Power Adapter Cable (2x)
ATI RADEON 9800 PRO Video Card, 256MB DDR
Thermaltake VA3000 Dream Tower Tsunami VA3000SWA ATX Case
Thermaltake Silent PurePower 420W ATX power ($36.00 !!!)

Cooling Components: (Danger Den )

AMD Kit:
- TDX CPU BLock w/Lucite Top
- M4 Chipset block
- MAZE4 GPU block (Black)
- 1/2 OD pipes
- XremeII Radiator (Black)
- 2x Evercool 120mm fans
- Eheim 1250 pump with 1/2 Adaptor
- 10 ft Tygon tubing
- Danger Den 5 1/4 Reservoir
- Artic Silver 5
- 4oz Zerex & Dye-Lite
- Stainless Steel Hold DOwns
- 12 Clamps + Y/T fittings

Yay / Nay ?
 
Most of the things in that list are old if you ask me. If you are wanting to go bleeding edge, FX-53 chip with some PC4000 DDR and an X800XT-PE or X800Pro would be what i would get.
 
Also, you never said anything about price be a limiting factor, so if it is, post a cap on what you can spend so we can better help you.
 
Thanks Dark, budget is about 3k. Miiight be able to go higher but it would have to involve some seriously sick performance :D

I thought the FX-53 was a 64 bit cpu, im not sure thats the route to go since nothing really supports 64 bit.. its going to be a gaming rig mostly, wont be running linux or anything.

Unless of course I'm on crack and carmack said doom 3 will take advantage of 64 bit processors.
 
64 bit or not, thats not whats important in your situation.

Right now, athlon 64 performance in gaming is above that of current P4 platforms. So, if your gonna spend about 3grand got with something like this.

Get the new socket 939 a 64's or a FX 53 if u can stomach it (retail for fx-53 was around 7-800 bones) high end A64 3800+ is around 700 bones.

Combine that with an abit av8 or asus motherboard.

Also, the socket 939's dont need registered ECC ram. any OCZ, corsair, or kingston ram should do. Make sure to pick up some ram that you can OC well with, im sure someone on the boards can make a recomendation on what you decide to go with. Get 1gig of it.

you could do without those cables and such as well, the motherboard should come with cables already.

ditch that hard drive and go with a single 74gb WD raptor or even two for uber hot raid 0 performance =P.

A new power supply, perferably PC power and cooling, antec...those should suit your needs for any SATA drives along with anything else.

videocard...heres where you gotta make some decisions, NVidia or ati...go with whatever you like, right now both manufacturers are gonna give you excellent performance. But since this is gonna be a all out gamer machine, get the ATI x800 PE or the 6800 ultra to match the speed of your system.

Case...lian li, quality build, excellent options, very easy to work with.

So, heres what you might be getting pricewise.
newegg prices
869 for FX-53
129 for Abit AV8 mobo
id say around, 300 - 400 for 1 gig of ram
350-500 for your videocard
100-200 for your case
200 for a PCP&C powersupply
100 (or even 25) for soundcard
200-300 for a good set of speakers

leave out or add more to that, but you looking around 3grand for your entire setup...which should last you a fairly long time (assuming you dont blow up your fx-53 lol)
 
Looks like the Visiontek Radeon X800 Pro 256MB Xtasy isnt even available yet. Anyone know if some place has it in stock? Just checked all the sites from Froogle and Reseller Ratings, everyone is out / waiting for it to arrive.

My new cart @ newegg:

100 - RAIDMAX 520W Power Supply
370 - 2x Western Digital Raptor 74GB 10,000RPM SATA for RAID 0
280 - 2x OCZ Enhanced Latency Dual Channel 512MB DDR PC-4000
869 - AMD Athlon 64 FX-53, 1MB L2 Cache, Windows Compatible.. damn!
130 - ABIT AV8 Motherboard
400 - Visiontek Xtasy X800 Pro 256MB DDR AGP
(already have) - Logitech THX Z-680 5.1 System
(already have) - Audigy

About $2150 so far without shipping, plus about 440 for the danger den system

Still cant decide between the Cube, the Thermaltake, or a Lian Li.

Thanks for the suggestions so far, I hadnt even considered the raptors :eek:
 
Raidmax psu....

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO :p

Unless of course you want a firework show. head over to the psu section and read up soldier. Apparantly you really need to with the selections of the thermaltake 420w psu and raidmax 500w psu.

Or you could just suck it up and get a pc power and cooling 510 deluxe and be done with upgrading your psu for life.
 
aphexddb said:
So this is my current shopping cart

Computer Components: (newegg.com )

ABIT "NF7-S" nForce2 Chipset Motherboard
AMD Athlon XP 3000+ "Barton", 400 FSB, 512K
512 OCZ Enhanced Latency Series Platinum Edition RAM (2x)
Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive (2x)
18-Inch, 90-Degree-Angled, SATA Cables (2x)
Coolmax Serial ATA Power Adapter Cable (2x)
ATI RADEON 9800 PRO Video Card, 256MB DDR
Thermaltake VA3000 Dream Tower Tsunami VA3000SWA ATX Case
Thermaltake Silent PurePower 420W ATX power ($36.00 !!!)

Cooling Components: (Danger Den )

AMD Kit:
- TDX CPU BLock w/Lucite Top
- M4 Chipset block
- MAZE4 GPU block (Black)
- 1/2 OD pipes
- XremeII Radiator (Black)
- 2x Evercool 120mm fans
- Eheim 1250 pump with 1/2 Adaptor
- 10 ft Tygon tubing
- Danger Den 5 1/4 Reservoir
- Artic Silver 5
- 4oz Zerex & Dye-Lite
- Stainless Steel Hold DOwns
- 12 Clamps + Y/T fittings

Yay / Nay ?
Click to expand...

Processor: If you want to go Athlon XP (a little outdated IMHO, but whatever), a mobile barton 2400+ will save you some cache (it'll overclock as high as the 3000+ anyway, just costs less) If you want to take it a little higher end, a 3.0C with an IS7-E2 (Or IC7 and up if you have the money) will overclock nicely.

I wouldn't get OCZ, but whatever, as long as the timings are tight.

Can I ask why two 80 gig hard drives? Are you going to put them in a RAID setup? If not, I'd go to one 160 gig SATA drive and save some space/heat.

9800 pro 256mb is a waste of money, IMHO. 256 is more than you'll probably ever need with a 9800 pro, you can get a 6800 for around the same price anyway. If you want to save some money and stick with the 9800, go for 128 megs an save some money.

Meh, case is whatever you want... It's ugly, in my opinion, but if that's what floats your boat, then by all means get it. :p

Power supply... It's okay. I'd probably get like a 300 or 350 watt Fortron instead to save my ears (and about 10 bucks), but it's not that bad.
 
computerpro3 said:
yes, yes it is. I'm serious go over and do some reading in the power supply section.
Click to expand...
ahh... padawan overclocker here. I just ordered a PC Power & Cooling Turbo Cool 510 Deluxe.

That Japanese page with the graphs on the power supply FAQ took me to school.
 
aphexddb said:
100 - RAIDMAX 520W Power Supply
370 - 2x Western Digital Raptor 74GB 10,000RPM SATA for RAID 0
280 - 2x OCZ Enhanced Latency Dual Channel 512MB DDR PC-4000
869 - AMD Athlon 64 FX-53, 1MB L2 Cache, Windows Compatible.. damn!
130 - ABIT AV8 Motherboard
400 - Visiontek Xtasy X800 Pro 256MB DDR AGP
(already have) - Logitech THX Z-680 5.1 System
(already have) - Audigy

About $2150 so far without shipping, plus about 440 for the danger den system

Still cant decide between the Cube, the Thermaltake, or a Lian Li.

Thanks for the suggestions so far, I hadnt even considered the raptors :eek:
Click to expand...

Ditch the Raidmax power supply and get a top of the line Antec TrueControl 550W for about the same price. One of the best out there by far.

As far as the hardware goes, thats one hell of a system....I wouldn't change a thing.

As far as the case goes, the Cube is WAY overpriced, but it does look good if thats really what you want to spend the money on. I love the way a nice sleek LianLi looks, and they cost half what the cube does. Stay away from a thermaltake, that just screams n00b with a megaphone.

For your watercooling needs, I suggest getting the Dangerden D4 12V pump insted of the 1250. The D4 performs better with higher pressure systems like yours is going to be.

Other than that good luck and keep us informed.

-OMP
 
ok here we go..
FX-53
1GB OCZ EB3700
you dont need a psu since u just bought a pcp&c
powercolor x800 pro w/vivo(all it takes is a flash mod to get a x800xt-pe, make sure to get vivo) or get a x800xt-pe if you can fine one.. - x800 pro at newegg
abit av8 mobo
get 1 74gb raptor and 1 other storage drive(or however many you want)*dont get 2 raptors for raid zero, yesterday i saw some guys benchmarks and the only performance increase was by about 2 seconds loading time in games & other things
Lianli pc-61 is a nice case, you can decide what case you like
you choose watercooling since i dont know much about it
Antec 550w truecontrol has weak rails and the fortron has strong rails when shipped and you can also adjust them easily and make them higher if you want an extreme oc
 
My friend bought this tonight, for $2700

Black Steel case - I think it's a raidmax and comes with a crappy 350 watt PS. I explained why that was bad... so see his new choice on the list.
Asus A8V
AMD FX53
2 gigs of Corsair 3200 (2-2-2-5) 2 gigs just because he wanted to spend the money. I guess having lots of it lets you do that. :)
1 Raptor 74gb
1 SATA 80gb WD for storage - He's not big on filling them up. His current 40 gig is barely half full
NEC Dual Layer 8x +/- DVDRW
SB Audigy 2
BFG GeFoce 6800GT (only cause the Ultras or the x800XT's weren't out or instock at the Egg)
Enermax 470 watt Noisetaker PSU
Zalaman fan controller and 4 blue LED fans.

He has a P4 1.7 with 256 of RAMBUST, a GeForce 4 4200 and a 19" Sony Trinitron (the only thing he kept). He was looking at a Dell for way too much with a P4 EE. Next comes the water. Probably a silver TDX, dual heatercore and a new case to stuff it in.
 
Damn your gonna have a pretty screamin fast system my man.

gameve.com has (or had) x800's in stock, thats where i got my visiontek from, and it wasnt price gouged either. Just checked the site, they have a gigabyte vivo card in stock, 440 bux. But, at the frys i work at, we do have BFG 6800GT OC's in stock, 399 i believe was the price. was thinking of picking one up and using my discount and selling on ebay lol....

anyway, that cube case....man thats fugly lol, but to each his own i suppose. i picked up a lian li pc-65 from newegg. Id have to say im very happy with it, if u check out other reviews on their cases, you would hear the same thing. Very easy to work with, if u pick one up, id say get the accessory front panels for the CD drives and floppy, just to make everything look nice and sleek.

have fun with your new toys
 
OneMadPoptart said:
For your watercooling needs, I suggest getting the Dangerden D4 12V pump insted of the 1250. The D4 performs better with higher pressure systems like yours is going to be.

Other than that good luck and keep us informed.

-OMP
Click to expand...

I'd agree with that too, plus it's a lot smaller than the 1250 and is easily stuffed where the hard drive cage used to be in my Lian Li PC-71
 
If you were going to go with the socket A platform for money reasons I would say suggest picking up a DFI Infinity or NF7-S and getting a mobile chip. Bleeding edge is FX-53 or Amd 64 though, the other people are right.
 
OneMadPoptart said:
a thing.

As far as the case goes, the Cube is WAY overpriced, but it does look good if thats really what you want to spend the money on. I love the way a nice sleek LianLi looks, and they cost half what the cube does. Stay away from a thermaltake, that just screams n00b with a megaphone.


-OMP
Click to expand...


I had a UFO, but never really cared for it, I just sold it. I did fall in love with my Lian Li PC71 though, I ended up buying another one for a computer I don't have yet. :)
 
Thanks everyone, all the feedback so far has kicked ass. Here is my final buy list for a [H]ard Doom 3 box: (And my computer for the next 10 years :rolleyes: )

Computer Parts:

- 2x Western Digital Raptor 74GB 10,000RPM SATA for RAID 1
- 2x OCZ Enhanced Latency Dual Channel Gold 184 Pin 1GB(512MBx2) DDR PC-4000
- ABIT AV8 Motherboard K8T800 Pro Chipset for AMD Socket 939 CPU
- AMD Socket 939 Athlon 64 FX-53, 1MB L2 Cache, Retail
- Plextor 12X DVD+RW/-RW Drive, Model PX-712A, Retail

Already Have:

- Logitech THX Z-680 5.1 System
- Audigy
- 19" NEC MultiSync FE950+
- Plextor 48x CD-R
- Handful of large PATA 7200 drives

Cooling:

Danger Den AMD Kit
- Athlon 64 TDX CPU BLock w/Lucite Top
- M4 Chipset block
- MAZE4 GPU block (Black)
- 1/2 OD pipes
- XremeII Radiator (Black)
- 2x Evercool 120mm fans
- Danger Den DD12V-D4 pump with 1/2 Adaptor
- 7 ft Tygon tubing
- Danger Den 5 1/4 Reservoir
- Artic Silver 5
- 4oz Zerex
- Stainless Steel Hold DOwns
- 12 Clamps + Y/T fittings

The Case: (from performance-pcs.com )

Lian Li PC-V2000 Aluminum Full Tower Case
PC Power & Cooling Turbo Cool 510 Ultra Deluxe with PFC
Vantec Power Supply Vibration Dampener Kit
Round Dual IDE Device Cables 24" - Silver Braided UV Reactive Red
2x SATA Data cable 30cm UV Reactive Red (12")

Video:

The most important thing here really but I still cant decide betwen the BFG GeForce 6800 GT or the Xtasy X800 Pro.. availability sucks and the price points / overclocking possibilities seem similar. Whatever it is its going to be watercooled and hopefully cost less than $500 bones. I'm going to wait as long as I can before the end of the month but the way the retailers are gouging its not gonna be pretty.

The final damage is just a shade over 3k.. whee! Unless I am commiting another foul like the power supply (thanks computerpro3) I'll probably order this stuff late tonight. I'll have to post build pics + benchmarks when this puppy is up and overclocked.
 
we have BFG 6800GT OC's at the frys i work at (burbank, ca). maybe we can work something out and ill have it shipped to you.
 
Are you sure that's not 1/2 ID tubing? That's what you need, not the 1/2 OD stuff.

Other than that your system looks good. I love that PCV2000 case...Good choice IMHO.

Good idea to wait as long as possible on the video card, just make sure that when you order one thats limited on stock you call the company insted of email/online orders to confirm they aren't jerking you around...I got screwed on that with my brand new 9800pro when it just came out all those years ago... :rolleyes: The had 5 "in stock" when I ordered online which meant in their books a total of Zero on the shelvs and they hadn't ordered for a restock. ....bastards....

Ohwell

Good luck and happy building. PM or post if you need help getting that sleek watercooling system setup.

-OMP
 
OneMadPoptart said:
Are you sure that's not 1/2 ID tubing? That's what you need, not the 1/2 OD stuff.
Click to expand...

Hmm, it looks like danger den doesnt sell 1/2" ID barbs for the blocks. I'm all about flow rate here, maybe i should look into getting some new barbs. I definetly want the 1/2" ID tubes. I'm gonna go grab some non-acrylic tubing from the local store when it gets in so I know it fits and bends right.
 
Am I going to need some ramsinks for my overclocked vid card (6800UT or x800XT) or do they just look really badass :)

<edit after RTFM>

Nevermind, I will need some so my waterblock fits ok.

</edit after RTFM>
 
aphexddb said:
Hmm, it looks like danger den doesnt sell 1/2" ID barbs for the blocks. I'm all about flow rate here, maybe i should look into getting some new barbs. I definetly want the 1/2" ID tubes. I'm gonna go grab some non-acrylic tubing from the local store when it gets in so I know it fits and bends right.
Click to expand...

You want 1/2'' ID tubing, and 1/2'' OD barbs for the waterblocks. 1/2 ID tubing fits on 1/2 OD barbs. The TDX and Maze blocks should come with what you need for a true 1/2'' system, so just make sure you get 1/2'' ID tubing.
 
dont get OCZ ram or youll be f'd in the a

really, ditch the crappy soundblaster. get a turtle beach at the very least.

what the fuck is this: XremeII Radiator (Black)

dont get that. get a heatercore.
 
As someone has already posted. Drop that second raptor. The performance gains on a sata raid 0 to single sata raptor were proven to be very very slim. Search anadtech for a review. It was a good eye opening read.

Heres another idea. Block out all news or talk about d3 until an AMD pcie board comes out. Then grab that and a 6800gt and youll be set.

my 2 cents

vtoe
 
Take a pass on that Abit VIA based socket 939 mb. Go with the MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum! It 0wnZorz all other socket 939 boards. Again, check Anandtech for a full review....
 
I'm ditching that expensive ass danger den XtremeII radiator and getting a heatercore, thanks for the heads up. For 1/4 of the price I can buy this heatercore across the street (literally). Sweet.

So everyone knows I am not going to RAID anything, I'm getting one 74GB Raptor and one 34GB Raptor. The small one is for windows and the other is for games / applications / scratch disks. All my soon to be old-n-busted PATA drives are going to be used for storage.

...and I should really wait to get a pci express machine, because that would be like 20x better. But damnit my computer sucks and I'm tired of waiting! Plus the need to play Doom 3 with all the fancy details turned on when it comes out gets to me. I have no discipline :D
 
aphexddb said:
...and I should really wait to get a pci express machine, because that would be like 20x better.
Click to expand...

PCI express would be fun if you have the money to do an SLI setup, but the extra bandwidth won't really buy you much in games today. The AGP bus already provides more than enough for today's games, including FarCry, so I don't see it being saturated very soon.

Read this.

The author tries everything from underclocked AGP 0.67x to AGP 8x and measures the performance. He finds that there is almost no gain moving from 4x to 8x. So doubling the bandwidth again won't make things much faster.

From the conclusion to that article:

Is PCI-Express a bad idea? Not at all. It cuts manufacturing costs and simplifies trace design; from that perspective alone it’s a smart advance. But don’t confuse “smart advance” with “performance advantage.” Based on the numbers we’ve seen here, the average game and application (even the modern ones) typically do not take advantage of AGP 8x. None of our games showed more than a small increase.
Click to expand...
 
All my computer parts came today... im giggling like an idiot. Everything I need to watercool wont be here until friday so i ran over to compusa and snagged a heatsink + fan so i could boot. However the heatsink sucks (some $20 thermtake k8 thing) I was able to run Aquamark almost all the way until the end before the motherboard cpu warning went off. It completed and here is the bone-stock score:

AquaMark Score: 65471 (Run ID: 481809657)
(CPU: 10577, GFX: 9480)
FPS: 65.47
TPS: 19708 K

3DMark2003 was unable to run all the way through, it crashed after the motherboard warning ran for a good minute. Anyway, thanks for all the help on this project, pictures to come.

cpuz.jpg
 
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