Doom 3 Enviorment Interactivity -> BORING.

v6maro

v6maro

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 10, 2002
Messages
1,552
I love doom, doom2, and now doom3, but I think the standard of most video games these days are to make the levels f'n interactive. Hell, I could flush a toilet in Duke Nukem, and how old is that? Come on now, ID forgot to invest in some gameplay here. Yes I know, the doom series are just that, run down corridor, shoot, find key, next objective. But seriously, I wanna flush a toilet, break some GLASS!, break a mirror.

My opinion:

Engine Design: 97%
Lighting (when lit): 85% (mars looked GOOD)
Lighting (when dark): 95%
Gameplay: 20%
Level interactivity: 5%
Enviorment: 30% (this is low because i feel level interaction plays a part in enviorment)
Sounds: 10%, I don't want to hear quake 1,2,3, sounds all over again IE: Med kit
Load times: 50%
Flashlight: useless
Level Design: 25%
Character Models: 99%

Overall, great engine, gameplay is crap and nothing new.
Just my opinion, how do you guys feel?
-Steve
 
you CAN break glass, if you shoot certain things the whole place explodes and you lose, and there are very awesome mirrors. i do agree that a lot of things arent interactive that should be (hell in farcry you can push over shelves and shit).

but those ARE NOT GAME PLAY, those are ENGINE. you have it ass-backwards.


also i like your sound rating. 10%? what the fuck? doom3 has some kick ass sound, you obivously have bad headphones or werent paying attention. so it makes the normal doom sound when you pick up keycards? boohoo. learn your past.

finally, nice rating for level design, too bad its much more detailed than you could probabily ever make. or me. or anyone without talent. it doesnt compare to the doom 1 levels (which I really like) but its still good, playable, deathmatch levels also are good
 
I think the gameplay is awesome, it's basic but it's primal and what makes us tick. It's the 'challenge---reward' philosphy of doom1 and games like diablo (challenge/search--->treasure).

However, I am disappointed in the interactivity of the levels. I'm REALLy surprised how little you can do and especially the lack of physics doing stuff. I think HALFLIFE may OWN doom in this regard, as even painkiller has way cooler physics than this.

The graphics and dark game create a unique atmosphere and the most chilling levels ever created. the sound and presentation are all top notch.

Physics: 25% out of 100% (I'm not done with the game tho)

Interactivity: 25%

Graphics, design, sound, ect. I'd give an 100% and the game engine is unbelievalbe (that I can play at 1600x1200 at Ultra high quality and get 60fps steady is just incredible). I like this game better than any game so far ever created, tho it isn't perfect. It's just my style. Far cry has some incredible vistas and graphics in a whole nuther way, and it's quite an accomplisment when you think of it. Both these games are headliners and each have a flavor of their own, but Far Cry, and I fear Half-Life, will be too cartoony for my liking.

The graphics and sound in DOOM really sold me. I think the only thing better could be another doom engine tweaked to incorporate more of the stuff that's lacking I detailed above (quake4 hopefully!)>
 
If you want to flush a toliet why don't you just do it in real life?
 
kronchev said:
you CAN break glass, if you shoot certain things the whole place explodes and you lose, and there are very awesome mirrors. i do agree that a lot of things arent interactive that should be (hell in farcry you can push over shelves and shit).
Click to expand...
Only certain glass, that is boring and inconsistant.
Mirrors look great, can't break them tho.

kronchev said:
but those ARE NOT GAME PLAY, those are ENGINE. you have it ass-backwards.
Click to expand...
No, they are gameplay, it can be coded for things to fall off of ledges ect, that's in the engine, the GAME does not have this, a mod could make it happen.

kronchev said:
also i like your sound rating. 10%? what the fuck? doom3 has some kick ass sound, you obivously have bad headphones or werent paying attention. so it makes the normal doom sound when you pick up keycards? boohoo. learn your past.
Click to expand...
Logitech Z-680's and an Audigy Platinum 2, hardly anything weak.
The sounds are OLD and OVER USED, they could have spent some time to come up with nice new ones. yes, I know my past asshole.

kronchev said:
finally, nice rating for level design, too bad its much more detailed than you could probabily ever make. or me. or anyone without talent. it doesnt compare to the doom 1 levels (which I really like) but its still good, playable, deathmatch levels also are good
Click to expand...
Sure, the textures are nice, but where is the real arcitecture?
who can't make square rooms?
-Steve
 
Yea, ID really dropped the ball as far as Level interactivity goes. Worse I've seen in a long time. I played a game called Dead Mans Hand recently that was 100% better than Doom 3 in this reguard. At least when you shot a window in that game it would break. :(
And in Far Cry, COD and MOHAA you could shoot things up and at least the bullet holes would stay there and glass would break and stuff like that. Hell, if you pump a few rounds in any window in any modern game it should shatter - but not in Doomville. :confused:
 
I dont put id down for this. I simply say that they left the door open for all the mod teams that want to strut their stuff. You ddin't just pay $55 for a 2 day run of the mill doorstop game, you paid for a full experience and then some. Just think of the possibilities with new mods coming out. Im sure some will recreate the SP game experience, adding features and such. Others are already promising 8 player, 12 player, even 16 player online games with new maps and models. Everyone here is thinking inside the box. Doom 3 didnt just open the door to better graphics, but it expanded the horizon for modding and expansion. id gets two thumbs up from me on this game no doubt. Great hob, and now its time for the modders to get to work.

BTW, the game BF 1942 didnt sell itself, Desert Combat (its most popular mod) did. Same goes for Half Life and other games. Just examples for all those who may think I am coming from an unfounded base.
 
v6maro said:
Only certain glass, that is boring and inconsistant.
Mirrors look great, can't break them tho.
Click to expand...

youre on MARS, if you could break ALL the glass youd be dead.

No, they are gameplay, it can be coded for things to fall off of ledges ect, that's in the engine, the GAME does not have this, a mod could make it happen.
Click to expand...

i still dont see what yuo mean. thats all engine. gameplay is exactly that, what happens when you play the game, not when you try to flush toilets

Logitech Z-680's and an Audigy Platinum 2, hardly anything weak.
The sounds are OLD and OVER USED, they could have spent some time to come up with nice new ones. yes, I know my past asshole.
Click to expand...

you cant play doom with speakers, it just doesnt work. yes it literally WORKS but its not nearly as engrossing as headphones. see you missed all the incidental sounds.


Sure, the textures are nice, but where is the real arcitecture?
who can't make square rooms?
-Steve
Click to expand...

i half agree with you. then again, look around, look at the machines, the details, the way things are laid out.
 
>youre on MARS, if you could break ALL the glass youd be dead.

The thing is, the game tells you not to discharge a weapon in such a way that would damage the facility. Of which, there is only one room where discharging your weapon can be bad. It would have been nice if a stray bullet could take out a window and suck things through it. Or cans would react when you shoot them. Or you shoot a guy in the middle of a conversation and he reacts. Or the drone the game tells you are acting flakey turn on you, or just start to shoot you when you start whack civilians. Or firing a rockey launcher into a vending machine makes the machine react.

The NPCs who perform their script until the end and don't react at all to any sort of activity(I can understand a zombie not reacting when you shoot it, it is busy with something else, but after capping one person talking to another, I don't think the conversation should continue), is certain events the game goes to great lengths to reinforce, have no discernable effect.
 
kronchev said:
youre on MARS, if you could break ALL the glass youd be dead.
{/quote]
Then that's what I want, a real enviorment. I want the glass to break with a bullet.


kronchev said:
i still dont see what yuo mean. thats all engine. gameplay is exactly that, what happens when you play the game, not when you try to flush toilets
Click to expand...
It's very linear, only one way to win, and nothing to change.

kronchev said:
you cant play doom with speakers, it just doesnt work. yes it literally WORKS but its not nearly as engrossing as headphones. see you missed all the incidental sounds.
Click to expand...
I disagree, I also have Sennheiser RS-85 headphones, they don't compare 1 bit to my Z680's when gaming.


kronchev said:
i half agree with you. then again, look around, look at the machines, the details, the way things are laid out.
Click to expand...

Yes, the machines are awesome, I am pretty set back by some of them, the rooms are blocks tho.
Click to expand...
 
v6maro said:
I love doom, doom2, and now doom3, but I think the standard of most video games these days are to make the levels f'n interactive. Hell, I could flush a toilet in Duke Nukem, and how old is that? Come on now, ID forgot to invest in some gameplay here. Yes I know, the doom series are just that, run down corridor, shoot, find key, next objective. But seriously, I wanna flush a toilet, break some GLASS!, break a mirror.
Click to expand...

WTF? I break glass and mirrors all the time. Move boxes and chairs into place so i can climb on them. Tipped a beam over onto a ledge so i could crawl up on it. Turn on a machine that picked things up and stacked them, but i would jump onto the cargo at the last second so it could pick me up as well, then jumped onto a ledge when it was nearby. Moved explosive barrels into place, so when the creatures walk past the door, instead of shooting them 20 times to kill them, i shoot the barrel once.

What more do you want? Oooh flushing toilets. Yes, because you can't flush the toilets, the environment is obviously not very interactive.
 
Who gives a fuck about having the ability to flush a toilet. I mean... why would you even want to do that in the first place? I prefer flushing my own real toilet and watching my turds circulate into the void of the unknown. Doom III wasn't meant to have the interactivity of Virtual Vallery 2.

I mean, sure flushing a toilet in doom might add to the "coolness" factor, but it has nothing relevant to the gameplay. Granted Duke 3D was one of the first games that implemented a degree of interactivity, it got OLD after 30 odd seconds of giggling with glee and saying "I FLUSH TEH TOILET, KEKEKE!"

For teh sound, I have to disagree. They sound a lot better than newer games, ala Far Cry, which was pretty weak in the sound department IMO.
 
this is one of the things i was very weary about doom3, i was afraid that it was all looks at not so much of an impressive and interactive world. thats why i'm holding steady to the hl2 engine. if you've seen some of the videos (trappertown)...it just really looks and feels like there is a lot more interaction.

as for interaction not equaling game play i totally disagree. interactive enviroments really make the gameplay to me. the ability to do the small things are what makes games amazingly cool. duke nukem 3d. nothing like paying strippers, flushing toilets, ect.
those are what really made that game. the small interactive things. were the things in duke nukem immature and petty? yes. was it still a neat idea to be able to do that, to have that sort of interaction? yes.

shooting barrels that explode to kill multiple things = original, new, and neat. wait.

saying that the company 'left the door open for mods' instead of doing everything themselves is a weak thing. sure, you can leave doors open. bethesda gave our their world editor. but its still important to make the game the best. replay makes gameplay imho.
.
 
look, my belief is, if you played the game right, it'd be more along the lines of OMG WTF IS THAT THING DIE DIE DIE DIE

instead of

well this is just piss poor enviroment creation.
 
Cigolon said:
as for interaction not equaling game play i totally disagree. interactive enviroments really make the gameplay to me. the ability to do the small things are what makes games amazingly cool. duke nukem 3d. nothing like paying strippers, flushing toilets, ect.
those are what really made that game. the small interactive things. were the things in duke nukem immature and petty? yes. was it still a neat idea to be able to do that, to have that sort of interaction? yes.
.
Click to expand...


paying strippers and flushing toilets were not interactive enviroments at all. one just changed your weapon to an animation of handing money, the other just played a sound. whoopp...pie. thats all LEVEL DESIGN. knowing the way id works i could make a level where you fart randomally(script), I could make a toilet flush (script), hell i could make a hand dryer with sensors that went off if you got too close (script, see a pattern?) the thing is duke3d had those specifically programmed and that was IT for interactivity. doom3 has a scripting language so you can make an unlimited amount of interactivity if you wanted to

id had a vision for how they wanted doom3 to play, they accomplished it exactly how they wanted (or they wouldnt have released it), and for those of you who are complaining about it, they gave you a MENU to launch mods. ever play a mod on duke3d?
 
I think you guys expect too much out of Doom 3. Personally I don't get why you need interactive environments to have a good game. The message I'm getting here is "I can flush toilets in this game, so I give it 100%". I don't see why a small insignificant objects have to be rated so much with the actual game. If you bought Doom 3 for shooting pop cans and breaking glass, then obviously you have no life.

If I wanted to break cans and bottles, I'll go to a shooting range. If I wanted to break glass, I'd pay a visit to the junkyard with a crowbar. If I wanted to pay strippers for stripping, I'll go to a strip club. Is it more exciting to watch pixels strip for you, or are we all just lazy?
 
i was using that as an example. i wasn't trying to nitpick. yes. obviously it was a script. and guess what else, the game wasn't 3d either. but. its the point i was trying to make. small things make the game a lot of the time. maybe not the first time you play it, but the second time when you start looking around more instead of trying to beat it..when you notice small things you can do- it really brings more enjoyment to the game.

yes, the had a vision. a creepy game with things that popout and go boo. yes, scary. its just a shame they didn't open it up more. do i thing they did good? yes. do i think they could have done better? yes.

i'm glad that people have the option to make whatever interaction they want in mods. however, i have very little faith in modders. dont get me wrong. there are amazing mods out there and some amazing modders who deserve to get paid. but a large portion of them are either stupid, unbalacing, or dont work right. there are tons of platforms for mods now, being doom3 is nothing new and amazing. its just another platform.
with the time they had between doom2 and 3, i simply would have expected more. thats all.

Sure, i can go the range to blow some bottles open. thats fun. sure, i can go to a strip club. thats fun until the gf makes fun of me. but, well. i'd just like the option to shoot out glasses if i want. to me thats what really makes games.

HRslammR said:
look, my belief is, if you played the game right, it'd be more along the lines of OMG WTF IS THAT THING DIE DIE DIE DIE

instead of

well this is just piss poor enviroment creation.
Click to expand...
thats what makes replay to me. enviroment. being able to go where you want and do what you want. sure the first time something jumps out at you its scary, but how many times can you play it through and still be scared. and being that it seems that fear is the big seller on this game, seems like a bad notion.
 
Soujiro said:
I think you guys expect too much out of Doom 3. Personally I don't get why you need interactive environments to have a good game. The message I'm getting here is "I can flush toilets in this game, so I give it 100%". I don't see why a small insignificant objects have to be rated so much with the actual game. If you bought Doom 3 for shooting pop cans and breaking glass, then obviously you have no life.

If I wanted to break cans and bottles, I'll go to a shooting range. If I wanted to break glass, I'd pay a visit to the junkyard with a crowbar. If I wanted to pay strippers for stripping, I'll go to a strip club. Is it more exciting to watch pixels strip for you, or are we all just lazy?
Click to expand...
I agree 100%. I don't understand what complete interactivity would bring to the game. Being able to flush a toliet adds just about nothing.

If you want Doom 3 to be a replacement for real life it's time to unplug your computer as you're obviously too addicted to it, go outside, and get some friends who don't get turned on by the concept of being able to flush a toliet in a game. Games, to me, allow you to escape reality and do something you can't do in the real world. While having some interactivity is nice and might add a bit to the realism it doesn't add to the most important thing that much: gameplay.
 
Do you even pay attention to the game as you play it?

Toilets DO FLUSH in D3 - they have sensors that do it automatically for you after you step away.

There - feel better now?? You don't even have to touch the messy thing. LOL :)

JFF:D
 
The toilet is simply a metaphor, you guys are taking it TOO literally, I simply stated that small things that make a game great were left out.
How about this, bullets doing damage to walls? Or hell, even a f'n sprite to stay on it and not disappear.

How about if I shoot a toilet, it's damaged.
if I shoot glass, it cracks, yes, all of it.
what about picking items up? Moving them?
Having a USE button to try to use items

I don’t know, I have seen other less-hyped games make a better environment than doom 3 did. I know everyone is on Far Cry's nuts about this, but I felt they made a better Environment, and better Atmosphere than Doom 3 did. Hell, in the jungle, I walk, and I hear / see the bushes move. I shoot a grenade and it damages the walls, puts DENTS in the friggin ground. Doom 3 is nothing like this, and to be frank, walking in dark corridors after a few hours is BORING.
-Steve
 
v6maro said:
The toilet is simply a metaphor, you guys are taking it TOO literally, I simply stated that small things that make a game great were left out.
How about this, bullets doing damage to walls? Or hell, even a f'n sprite to stay on it and not disappear.

How about if I shoot a toilet, it's damaged.
if I shoot glass, it cracks, yes, all of it.
what about picking items up? Moving them?
Having a USE button to try to use items

I don’t know, I have seen other less-hyped games make a better environment than doom 3 did. I know everyone is on Far Cry's nuts about this, but I felt they made a better Environment, and better Atmosphere than Doom 3 did. Hell, in the jungle, I walk, and I hear / see the bushes move. I shoot a grenade and it damages the walls, puts DENTS in the friggin ground. Doom 3 is nothing like this, and to be frank, walking in dark corridors after a few hours is BORING.
-Steve
Click to expand...


I don't know what kind of fucked up copy of the game you have, but a lot of these things happen in my game. Do the walls explode? Um no. But they certainly didn't in Farcry either, and most of those buildings were wooden.. But if i shoot at walls, it certainly leaves a mark. Of course the marks leaves after 30 secs, but that's for the mercy of our systems, not because they couldn't figure out how to code it to make the marks last indefinite. You'll also note that Farcry does this as well.

What did you expect Doom3 to be? It's a game, not reality bud. They've worked on this for 4 years, and i'm glad in that time they worked on good graphics and an excellent atmosphere rather than on your lame details.
 
So let's say you could blow up toliets and have water squirt all over the place from the pipes. How would that add anything to the gameplay?
 
I say again:

Do you even pay attention to the game as you play it?


The toilet is simply a metaphor, you guys are taking it TOO literally
Click to expand...

Ummmm...YOU are the one that listed this as your first compalint with the game.If it was a "metaphor" - you never presented it as such.

How about this, bullets doing damage to walls? Or hell, even a f'n sprite to stay on it and not disappear.
Click to expand...

I see bullet holes just fine in my game. Check your doomconfig.cfg file and ensure that decals are on. The setting should be:

seta g_decals "1"

If it is "0" - change it.

How about if I shoot a toilet, it's damaged.
if I shoot glass, it cracks, yes, all of it.
Click to expand...

True, this isn't all possible in this game - BUT it doesn't detract AT ALL from the experience.

what about picking items up? Moving them?
Click to expand...
You paying attention? While items can't be picked up - a "lot" of them CAN be moved simply by pushing into them - or even punching them.:)

Having a USE button to try to use items
Click to expand...
You really haven't been paying attention have you? What I consider this games "GREATEST convention is it's ability to "do away" with the standard USE button. How? This is simply and elegantly done by allowing your crosshair to change to a cursor at the appropriate time, via door buttons, computer screens, PDA's, etc . And don't forget that simply placing your crosshair over an NPC changes them to "talk" mode and clicking with the mouse allows you to interact. It is all so seamless and intuitive, that I can understand how you simply "misunderstood" that the USE function is not present.

If you are "truly" paying attention - It is EVERYWHERE.:)

JFF:D
 
poster: you want halflife2

doom3 does what it sets out to do. and like HRslammer said its from what perspective you approach it whether or not you'll enjoy it. awesome, awesome game.
 
The PDA thing is cool. I like that a lot. The engine is top notch of course. And if you don't like the sound then you must be some kind of satan worshiper becasue the sound personally scares the hell out of me. Doom III is designed to be a scare game. It does the job well. True doom III has like 0 level interactiviy, but who gives a flip? Oh yeah FarCry had lots of level interactivity, but it was stupid stuff that was like "ok shoot a barrell and it will fall over, whoope." Maybe HL2 will have some decent physics interactivity, but no other game really used the physics engine to actually effect gameplay so I don't see why you are complaining about Doom. Doom III is a top notch game for sure though. It is also one of the few engines that is Rock Solid right out of the box. Can't say the same for soem other games, althoguht I have never crashed with FarCry and it is pretty good.
 
jon_k said:
Oh yeah FarCry had lots of level interactivity, but it was stupid stuff that was like "ok shoot a barrell and it will fall over, whoope."
Click to expand...
I don't know about that, I found rolling the barrels useful for knocking down some mercs or just distracting them.
 
kronchev said:
youre just mad you have no point now
Click to expand...

if you look at his sig

P4 2.4b @ 3.42GHz - Asus P4B533 board @ 190fsb 1.525 Vcore
Vapochill PE Titanium.
512mb of Corsair PC3500C2 ram.
Asus GF4 TI4600
Audigy 2 Platinum
IBM 36.7GB U160 SCSI 15,000rpm
WD 80gb 7200rpm, Maxtor 60gb 7200rpm
Pioneer DVD-RW 4x/2x // CD-R/RW, 16x8x32x
Logitech Z-680 speakers
Antec True 550w PSU
some fans, some LED's, a window, and a cold cathode.


he has a GF4 and is not seeing half the details. so his fight is now null and void. and it's all due to his lack of upgrading a vid card to see the whole game to it's fulliest
i donno what copy of doom3 he is running but for fuck sake DOOM3 KICKS ASS AND IT OWNS HL2 LOL!!!!! :D

yes i am a fan of the Doom Series........and Doom3 reminds me of doom.
 
Flushing toilets pwn3z!!!

I also like to punch soda cans, hamburger boxes and pylons...sweet.
 
kuyaglen said:
Flushing toilets pwn3z!!!

I also like to punch soda cans, hamburger boxes and pylons...sweet.
Click to expand...

i love punching the wall
to bad blood doesn't splater when you keep hitting it LOL!
bust your knuckles open :D
 
I punched the hell out of that guys hamburger at the bar. Then I got all up in his face and he did NOTHING. Apparently Marines are wussies in the year 2045...
 
doh-nut said:
i like wacking zombies on the head with my flashlight
Click to expand...

i can't wait till i get the chainsaw..i am going to running around like a crazed crack adicit looking for some crack and cutting shit up that gets in my way...and probaly jump outa my chair a few times trying to run away from the bigger things that will hurt me even if i have the chainsaw :D
 
I think the premise this guys trying to get across here, is that being able to flush a toilet, or brake glass, adds to the overall immersion of the game. When you blow up a laptop with 40 rounds from your machine gun, and only the screen goes out, its a tad bit unrealistic? Why even bother with the physics engine if you arnt going to use it to its full potential?

I agree with the poster about how he feels. You get drawn into this awesome atmosphere doom 3 creates, only to be sucked out because your BFG cant destroy a restroom mirror.
 
yeah i have to agree, the graphics and sounds are crazy, but that is only part of the game, who cares if your characters are truly lifelike and the walls and objects in the world look better than that finalfantasy movie if you cant do shit with them but look, i want to move boxes, i want to break things, i want to blow shit up :D, i almost cried when i couldnt buy myself a soda at the endless vending machines there, or empty a clip into some glass and not break it. A good game takes more than just pretty graphics and highquality sounds.

and the flashlight gives me headaches, it is almost painful trying to look around with the offcenter beam of light :( youd think you could atleast point it where the crosshair is
 
lowdy15 said:
I agree with the poster about how he feels. You get drawn into this awesome atmosphere doom 3 creates, only to be sucked out because your BFG cant destroy a restroom mirror.
Click to expand...

well technically the BFG would destroy much more than the mirror, it would cause the walls to melt. there has to be a line here, or people would just end up breaking things and forget the point of the game.

not to mention, if the devs had to take the time to make everything destructible, it would either come out years later, or wouldn't have all the cool stuff it DOES have now.
 
What bothers me is people forget what the game is supposed to be. It is NOT some deep thoughtful game or anything other than a linear shoot-em-up zombie game. People were expecting way too much from a game that wasnt meant to be what people expect.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top