Don't Buy a MacBook Pro, Even On Sale

rgMekanic

[H]ard|News
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May 13, 2013
Messages
5,674
Following up on a story we wrote in March, where the MacBook keyboards have been rendered inoperable from even the tiniest bit of dust or debris, apparently the problem was worse than expected. Casey Johnston from TheOutline, and author of "THE NEW MACBOOK KEYBOARD IS RUINING MY LIFE," has posted a follow up where he not only shows that the problem is incredibly widespread, but also informs us that it is so bad, he sold his 2016 MacBook Pro back to Apple, and went back to using his 2013.

Interesting read, and a massive problem it seems. At least Apple has done something about it... a support page in which they show you how to use a can of compressed air.

I still had my 2013 MacBook Pro around, so I sold my 2016 MacBook Pro back to Apple’s refurb program, and now I just use the 2013 as my laptop (I used the recovered money to build a PC, lord help me). This old MacBook Pro is still fine, and most importantly, all the keyboard keys work.
 

defaultluser

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 14, 2006
Messages
14,365
Unfortunately, sales have gone up since the introduction of that trash. We'll see if these reports result in a fall in sales, but I just don't see it happening.

The trendy is strong with Apple idiots (businesses and consumers). If you're not in your local apple store on a monthly basis having a "Genius" fixing something, you're doing something wrong?

Apple likes idiots paying extra for Applecare on everything, and users at least feel like they're getting their money's worth fixing crap like this. Your only way out is to give up on the platform in it's entirety.
 
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ecuador

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Dec 29, 2008
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207
My old boss had a 6-month mac mini about 10 years ago, which started killing keyboards. After killing 2-3 (fancy/expensive) keyboards, he took it to the Apple store where they diagnosed a faulty motherboard. 2 weeks later he was supposed to pick it up and they told him they had invalidated his warranty due to "dust inside the machine" (non-smoking, no-cat environment - they did say "dust"). The only remedy they offered was a 10% off a new one, which he took.
I was speechless when you told me the story. I tried to explain to him that not only dust was not a valid excuse technically or even theoretically (searched in their terms in case they really put something like that on), but also they would be the ones responsible for how much dust gets into their machine by designing the intakes... "The Apple Genius said so, so they must be right" was the answer...
That's Apple customers for you!
Developing on iPhones I know of several other examples of defects which went unacknowledged. The worst was the iPhone 4/4S wireless module. In about 2 years most of the iPhone 4/4S (4 out of 4 in my case) would start getting their WiFi switched greyed out, so it would be non-functional (along with the GPS) with some people finding temporary remedies in temperature shocks - putting phones in the freezer and/or the oven. It turns out the temperature sensor of the wireless module had a faulty design and disabled the entire wireless module when it failed. The crazy thing is that when the iPhone 4 first came out, the iOS did not read that temperature sensor, so if you kept at iOS 5 if I remember correctly, your phone would never fail. So it was as simple as a software patch, or if you looked at it the other way, with a software upgrade Apple permanently disabled your wireless. For any other manufacturer there would have been a riot, for Apple there was simply a flood of non-wifi capable iPhone 4s on ebay...
 

jnemesh

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Messages
1,084
But...but...but..."it just works"! Right??? Apple's quality (on ALL fronts, software AND hardware) has taken a STEEP dive since Steve Jobs started farming maggots. They might be sitting on half a billion in cash...they will need it! But they have no clue what their customers actually want.
 

Chimpee

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But...but...but..."it just works"! Right??? Apple's quality (on ALL fronts, software AND hardware) has taken a STEEP dive since Steve Jobs started farming maggots. They might be sitting on half a billion in cash...they will need it! But they have no clue what their customers actually want.

If anything, it shows you their own customer don't know what they want. What Apple wants is to extract as much money from its customer.
 

WhoMe

Gawd
Joined
Jan 3, 2018
Messages
827
Know somebody with a MPB pro you don't like? I'll sell you some of my Vizsla-beagle's (extremely short) hair...it clogs up a regular PC keyboard in a few weeks, probably stop the MPB in a second or two and they won't notice it. It especially likes to accumulate under the spacebar so I have high hopes for its MBP sabotage effect.
 

mashnut

n00b
Joined
Apr 27, 2018
Messages
1
Following up on a story we wrote in March, where the MacBook keyboards have been rendered inoperable from even the tiniest bit of dust or debris, apparently the problem was worse than expected. Casey Johnston from TheOutline, and author of "THE NEW MACBOOK KEYBOARD IS RUINING MY LIFE," has posted a follow up where he not only shows that the problem is incredibly widespread, but also informs us that it is so bad, he sold his 2016 MacBook Pro back to Apple, and went back to using his 2013.

Interesting read, and a massive problem it seems. At least Apple has done something about it... a support page in which they show you how to use a can of compressed air.

I still had my 2013 MacBook Pro around, so I sold my 2016 MacBook Pro back to Apple’s refurb program, and now I just use the 2013 as my laptop (I used the recovered money to build a PC, lord help me). This old MacBook Pro is still fine, and most importantly, all the keyboard keys work.

Casey Johnston is a female, thought you may want to correct that: https://twitter.com/caseyjohnston
 

DukenukemX

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
5,875
I found the problem.

uuH23A.jpg.d852addaa7497bdefbde5de94a816d88.jpg
 
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
40
Following up on a story we wrote in March, where the MacBook keyboards have been rendered inoperable from even the tiniest bit of dust or debris, apparently the problem was worse than expected. Casey Johnston from TheOutline, and author of "THE NEW MACBOOK KEYBOARD IS RUINING MY LIFE," has posted a follow up where he not only shows that the problem is incredibly widespread, but also informs us that it is so bad, he sold his 2016 MacBook Pro back to Apple, and went back to using his 2013.

Interesting read, and a massive problem it seems. At least Apple has done something about it... a support page in which they show you how to use a can of compressed air.

I still had my 2013 MacBook Pro around, so I sold my 2016 MacBook Pro back to Apple’s refurb program, and now I just use the 2013 as my laptop (I used the recovered money to build a PC, lord help me). This old MacBook Pro is still fine, and most importantly, all the keyboard keys work.
Minor point, but Casey Johnston is a woman.
 

nutzo

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 15, 2004
Messages
7,380
Great video.
I knew Apple was evil, I just didn't know how evil.

They not only solder in the ram, they even solder in the SSD and rivet in the keyboard?

Those are the 3 most likely items I replace or upgrade in a laptop, both at work or for people I know.

Just installed a 250GB SSD to replace a 128GB SSD on someone's old laptop. They where happy and surprised it was so cheap.
I replaced a lot of high end laptops at work over the past year.
Most are still perfectly good, especially when I drop in a cheap SSD, so they are used for less demanding office users.
Some are returned with dirty/gross keyboards, but that's a cheap fix (unlike Apple).
 

Quix

2[H]4U
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Messages
3,710
Rarely do you find a company as openly contemptuous of their customers as Apple is. They're nearing the level they were at in the late 90's right before they nearly crashed into the ground last time. A huge YouTube channel damaged a brand new iMac Pro and can't get it repaired (at their cost) through Apple because the right combination of certified employees and parts isn't available anywhere. They basically just got told that the Apple Store couldn't fix it. Apple controls their sales system, so if they wanted to they could have the best customer service in the business. But it seems they'd rather milk every cent out of you today at the expense of future sales and good will. Maybe they just think their customers are so stupid they'll just buy anyway.
 

Liver

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Oct 24, 2005
Messages
5,099
Please elaborate on your perceived dissonance.

Company makes products that sell. People buy them. Company makes money, lots and lots of money.

Nerds come out and claim people that buy them are sheep, stupid and uninformed. Nerds cling to a statistically small subset that have had issues with the product, and then have an “ah ha” moment.

Just maybe, Apple puts out a good product. A good product that people want to buy. Just maybe those people aren’t stupid. Just maybe. That’s cognitive dissonance. You own it.

Or you can tell me how the pretty girls at Starbucks are all on Apple iPhone and Macbooks, they must be stupid for using Apple products. Or not talking to you, but mainly because they use Apple products.
 

Liver

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
5,099
Milking. That’s a term that overused.

I’ve been given free replacement iPad (one), iPhones (two) and a brand new in box MacBook Pro when mine broke. No skim milk involved.
 

heatlesssun

Extremely [H]
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
44,154
Company makes products that sell. People buy them. Company makes money, lots and lots of money.

Nerds come out and claim people that buy them are sheep, stupid and uninformed. Nerds cling to a statistically small subset that have had issues with the product, and then have an “ah ha” moment.

Just maybe, Apple puts out a good product. A good product that people want to buy. Just maybe those people aren’t stupid. Just maybe. That’s cognitive dissonance. You own it.

Or you can tell me how the pretty girls at Starbucks are all on Apple iPhone and Macbooks, they must be stupid for using Apple products. Or not talking to you, but mainly because they use Apple products.

All successful companies suffer the same fate but given Apple's success and status they suffer it more than most. That said, their x86 lineup for a while has not been particularly compelling.
 

Aireoth

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Oct 12, 2005
Messages
5,659
Company makes products that sell. People buy them. Company makes money, lots and lots of money.

Nerds come out and claim people that buy them are sheep, stupid and uninformed. Nerds cling to a statistically small subset that have had issues with the product, and then have an “ah ha” moment.

Just maybe, Apple puts out a good product. A good product that people want to buy. Just maybe those people aren’t stupid. Just maybe. That’s cognitive dissonance. You own it.

Or you can tell me how the pretty girls at Starbucks are all on Apple iPhone and Macbooks, they must be stupid for using Apple products. Or not talking to you, but mainly because they use Apple products.

Or you know, I used to be a long time Mac user and got fed up with the various issues I ran into, not least of which is the inability to easily fix hardware that should be easy to fix.

If your going to charge a premium for your product, you should be offering a premium product, if not best in class it should still be of great quality. I understand that all manufacturers will have defects or problems with some units, but apple for me has had nothing but headaches, their hardware is almost always behind because you have to wait on them to refresh to current tech, and their fit and finish is not justified in today's market.
 

WhoMe

Gawd
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Messages
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Company makes products that sell. People buy them. Company makes money, lots and lots of money.

Nerds come out and claim people that buy them are sheep, stupid and uninformed. Nerds cling to a statistically small subset that have had issues with the product, and then have an “ah ha” moment.

Just maybe, Apple puts out a good product. A good product that people want to buy. Just maybe those people aren’t stupid. Just maybe. That’s cognitive dissonance. You own it.

Or you can tell me how the pretty girls at Starbucks are all on Apple iPhone and Macbooks, they must be stupid for using Apple products. Or not talking to you, but mainly because they use Apple products.
Or gee, do you think maybe, just maybe some of us have had Apple products and been turned off by our experience...just maybe? BTW nerds is not an insult, but trying to use as such in your argument tells as a lot about your cognitive issues.
 

Liver

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I guess. I’ve had perfect interactions with Apple in regards to warranty and replacements. My 2011 i7 MBP is still my go to computer for everything I need (not what you need, but what I need). If you look in the Apple subforum my other 2010 C2D MBP finally had battery death.

Why you making statements like they are behind on hardware and their design isn’t justified? The product sells, that’s proof enough.

I’m sorry, some of you are smarter than the millions of people that buy Apple, and the entire company. Combined. For you, I get it, the Apple won’t suffice.
 

Liver

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Messages
5,099
Or gee, do you think maybe, just maybe some of us have had Apple products and been turned off by our experience...just maybe? BTW nerds is not an insult, but trying to use as such in your argument tells as a lot about your cognitive issues.

Sure. What does it tell you Freud?

Never meant nerds as an insult, but I know you took it as one. That makes me smirk. Yea, go ahead tell me it didn’t hit you in a tender spot. I’ll believe you, after all I’m using an iPad to post this. I’m gullible.
 

WhoMe

Gawd
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Messages
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Sure. What does it tell you Freud?

Never meant nerds as an insult, but I know you took it as one. That makes me smirk. Yea, go ahead tell me it didn’t hit you in a tender spot. I’ll believe you, after all I’m using an iPad to post this. I’m gullible.
Sure, try to back off...your words are recorded for posterity, your intent is quite clear...talk about cognitive dissonance.
 

WhoMe

Gawd
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Messages
827
I guess. I’ve had perfect interactions with Apple in regards to warranty and replacements. My 2011 i7 MBP is still my go to computer for everything I need (not what you need, but what I need). If you look in the Apple subforum my other 2010 C2D MBP finally had battery death.

Why you making statements like they are behind on hardware and their design isn’t justified? The product sells, that’s proof enough.

I’m sorry, some of you are smarter than the millions of people that buy Apple, and the entire company. Combined. For you, I get it, the Apple won’t suffice.
Millions of people buy fat laden foods that shorten their lives...your point doesn't make sense.
 

hmz

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Messages
3,209
Rarely do you find a company as openly contemptuous of their customers as Apple is. They're nearing the level they were at in the late 90's right before they nearly crashed into the ground last time. A huge YouTube channel damaged a brand new iMac Pro and can't get it repaired (at their cost) through Apple because the right combination of certified employees and parts isn't available anywhere. They basically just got told that the Apple Store couldn't fix it. Apple controls their sales system, so if they wanted to they could have the best customer service in the business. But it seems they'd rather milk every cent out of you today at the expense of future sales and good will. Maybe they just think their customers are so stupid they'll just buy anyway.

That video is wrong. The guy knew all the risks and still proceeded to take apart the device and now asks for parts? He is an asshole who is aiming for more clicks.

Microsoft does the same thing on the Surface devices. This is nothing new in the industry.
 

Liver

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Millions of people buy fat laden foods that shorten their lives...your point doesn't make sense.

You are bringing up fat laden food. You saying my post doesn’t make sense?

Hell man, I’m up after 11pm. That’s shortening my life and I’m still on my iPad. That’s like a double whammy.
 
Joined
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Messages
1,005
But...but...but..."it just works"! Right??? Apple's quality (on ALL fronts, software AND hardware) has taken a STEEP dive since Steve Jobs started farming maggots. They might be sitting on half a billion in cash...they will need it! But they have no clue what their customers actually want.
Jobs dug them out of the depths of imminent implosion, and took them to the very heights of reliability and popularity.

Once he kicked the bucket, tho, the marketing/accounting/management types took over the company, and are slowly destroying it yet again.
 

Liver

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Messages
5,099
Sure, try to back off...your words are recorded for posterity, your intent is quite clear...talk about cognitive dissonance.

Backing off from what? I ain’t. Being an Apple user, my intent is obviously transparent to you. However I know that you don’t know what cognitive dissonance means if you are attributing it to me in the confines of this thread.

However I’m still waiting for your Freud like power to tell me about my cognitive state and what your have learned.

Still on the iPad, so it should be easy.

I like the products. They work and work well together. Yes I’ve had issues. Yes I’ve taken them in and I’ve been well taken care of. Yea I think SJ ran a tight ship, but there ain’t denying the profitability of Apple post SJ. People are saying Apple is decline! SJ era of innovation is over! Apple is finished! Sure, what’s the proof? Is it declining revenues? Horrible stock price?
 

DocNo

Gawd
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Apr 23, 2012
Messages
662
Ugh the newest keyboards are indeed an abomination. Typing on a MacBook Air right now and I'm praying it doesn't die before Apple comes to their sense and releases a decent laptop keyboard.

This obsession with "thin at all costs" is beyond idiotic at this point :(
 

WhoMe

Gawd
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Messages
827
You are bringing up fat laden food. You saying my post doesn’t make sense?

Hell man, I’m up after 11pm. That’s shortening my life and I’m still on my iPad. That’s like a double whammy.
Just because people buy something doesn't mean it's good. That was just a simple analogy...but maybe you need some sleep? Apple has great marketing, doesn't mean it has the best products, sales numbers just don't mean that never have.

I had an iPad it was ok, but after I broke it had no desire to replace it. I had a Mac Mini, well I still have it but never use it.

Your cognitive dissonance is being able to say you meant you had no insult intended when your intent was quite clear and you at least subconsciously appear to believe two different things at the same time...i.e. cognitive dissonance, now maybe you don't understand what it means because your use of the term made no sense originally though I ignored that.

See it's great you think their products are great. But just because you do doesn't mean everybody else has too and if they don't they are not "cognitively dissonant" makes no sense at all. Do you get it? Both views are valid and coming here and insulting the other side does no good.

Anyway I'm out of this conversation it's getting pointless.
 
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