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Does microstutter affect 120hz monitors?

W

WiL11o6

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
478
Right now, I have two 7970s on a single Dell U2311H and above 60fps, I notice microstutter. It is not bad, it is better than my SLI 570s, but it is in fact there. I turn on v-sync and use MSI Afterburner's framelimiter set to 60. It is buttery smooth at 60fps now. From my understanding, microstutter exists because the dual GPUs are pushing frames out that are out of sync and so the monitor looks like it's tearing making a 80fps look laggier than at 60fps because a 60hz display can only refresh up to 60 times a second.

I am wondering if I venture into a good 120hz display, like the 27" Samsung S27A950, would I notice microstutter if I'm getting 80fps? Or would I only notice microstuttering on 120hz displays at 120fps and above, like how I notice microstuttering at 60 fps and above with a 60hz monitor.
 
If it occurs, it'll affect any monitor at any refresh rate. In fact, @120hz it may be more noticeable.
 
You actually have a really good question. Sometimes I feel like its the GPU stuttering, not so much that your monitor can't handle it but it may just be me. If someone who has this experience, they should really post here. Good luck.
 
Micro-stutter has nothing to do with the monitor. It will be evident no matter how good your monitor is.

You can have a 100fps and still have micro-stutter. It is caused by the uneven distribution of frames over that second that causes it.

Techreport uses FPS and frametimes when benchmarking games. Even frametimes gives better smoothness. While HardOCP doesn't measure frametimes, I think HardOCP refers to this as playability.

I had the same problem when I had a 3870X2.

I really prefer single fast GPU solution since then.


Microstuttering and Frametimes

The first article explains it pretty well.

http://techreport.com/articles.x/21516/1

http://techreport.com/articles.x/22192/11

EDIT: A higher refresh rate monitor can help with tearing which can make the picture look smeared in spots but will not help with micro stutter. I bought FRAPS quite a while ago and it can export your frametimes into a file that can be loaded into any spreadsheet program and then you can graph these things. I had a lot of experience with this years back with my 3870X2 and BF2. Since then drivers are better and game are probably more 'aware' of multi GPU solutions so this hopefully isn't such a big problem but you know what they say about first impressions.

7970 Frametimes before BF3 7000 series patch in February...

http://techreport.com/articles.x/22192/11
 
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I have seen more than one person claim that micro-stuttering is caused by poor HDD performance and not multi-GPUs. Are these people video card company shills trying to get more people to buy multi-GPU setups or what? Logic would dictate that if it was indeed cause by poor HDD performance as they claim then one would get the same micro-stutter issue with single or multi-GPUs. But that is not the case so they are lying.
 
I would not define the game hitches caused by a hard drive micro-stuttering. Most of the level of a game should be loaded into memory at the beginning of a round. If you don't have enough memory, then I guess it would be getting it from the page file on your hard drive.

BF3 streams textures / models into video ram on the fly and is being optimized all the time by the sounds of it.

Having said all of this, I have seen both. The hard drive issue is more abrupt and more of a pause rather then stuttering and does not occur as often or as consistently as micro-stuttering.. Once you have seen microstuttering, there is no mistaking it for a hard drive issue or net lag / packet loss.
 
Yes, I know what HDD causing hitching looks like but these people have said that when people complain about stuttering caused by multi-GPU it is not the GPUs and is really caused by the HDD. I don't buy their theory anyway and find that they would say that suspect.
 
kontact said:
Yes, I know what HDD causing hitching looks like but these people have said that when people complain about stuttering caused by multi-GPU it is not the GPUs and is really caused by the HDD. I don't buy their theory anyway and find that they would say that suspect.
Click to expand...

I wasn't questioning your conclusion. I was agreeing and expanded on it a bit. The internet is full of people that spread BS. It's too bad when the unsuspecting or ignorant believe what they have to say but such is life. Some people will still defend their position even when faced with undeniable facts. When surfing the internet one must always check that their BS filter is functioning properly.
 
Your monitor can't display above 60fps, so you're probably better off with vsync to begin with since those cards should be powerful enough to keep it there all the time. Does AMD have a method to force SFR in crossfire like Nvidia does? Micro-stutter is mostly a problem with the AFR technique, maybe you could try that to see if there is any difference.
 
LigTasm said:
Your monitor can't display above 60fps, so you're probably better off with vsync to begin with since those cards should be powerful enough to keep it there all the time. Does AMD have a method to force SFR in crossfire like Nvidia does? Micro-stutter is mostly a problem with the AFR technique, maybe you could try that to see if there is any difference.
Click to expand...

yes. your monitor can indeed display more then 60 frames per second. its just that it'll get extrapolated, into other frames and it'll be always 60+ frames per second being "displayed"

I'll take 120fps over 60fps any day. The smoothness is a world of difference
 
Yes. Speaking from personal experience, microstuttering is noticable on 120hz, even more noticable than 60hz due to the fluidity of the picture.

This is one of the main reasons why i ditched my cfx setup for a single OC'd 7970. Single GPU for life now.
 
Typical interframe latency (typical frame time delta) is reduced as higher frame rates. Theoretically speaking, anyway, but practically speaking, this will always be the case.

It's unavoidable, even at the highest frame rates, but at higher frame rates, it becomes less perceptible.
 
Some people pair two 1GB video cards together, increase a game's visual settings, they and think they're experiencing micro-stutter when in fact the VRAM is just choking on the textures and other rendering data. A possibility not considered by some because it's not made entirely clear by either ATI or Nvidia that the VRAM of two cards is not additive.

An HDD can't cause substantial issues unless it's 5400 RPM, in my experience. System RAM with nonstandard timings can also cause performance hiccups.
 
risqu3 said:
yes. your monitor can indeed display more then 60 frames per second. its just that it'll get extrapolated, into other frames and it'll be always 60+ frames per second being "displayed"

I'll take 120fps over 60fps any day. The smoothness is a world of difference
Click to expand...

What? The u2311 has a refresh rate of 60hz (possibly 75hz but its not common on IPS panels). 60hz means only 60 whole frames can be displayed in one second, regardless of if they are half from one rendered frame and half from another that your card is storing in the frame buffer. Exceeding that will only cause tearing, not "extrapolating". Vsync on with triple buffering or a fps cap at 60 is the best bet for a smooth experience on that screen.

As far as on 120hz, I have not experienced any microstutter at any point with several different CF/SLI setups using my VG236H. I'm sure it is possible but I haven't seen it yet, most likely it would be with a lower end CF/SLI setup.
 
For me blackops would give me microstutter on my 5870 CF setup at 60fps at 60hz with vsync enabled.

On 120hz with vsync which it I think it capped at 90 it still did it but not as bad. Once I disabled vsync the microstutter did go away for the most part. It was similar symptoms in MW3.

But those are the only titles that I've experienced really experienced microstutter.
 
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I experienced some micro stutter problem with a 120hz display with 2 nvidia cards in SLI.
 
So did i.. even with 3 and 4 cards in SLI.

Its been smooth for me with 2-3 7970s in crossfirex on my 120hz screens.

In BF3 try this console setting by hitting the ~ key:

renderdevice.forcerenderaheadlimit 1

On a single screen its smooth with just 2 cards in BF3 maxed out settings. And rediculously BUTTER smooth with 3 cards!! Cant really put it into words how wierd the game looks that smooth.. almost 3d like haha.

4 cards i cant comment on since the game crashes pretty quick in BF3.. hope some drivers fix that crap soon.
 
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