Does a 120Hz display with 1920x1200 resolution exist?

Apostrophe

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A dilemma:

1) I've gotten used to my 24" 1920x1200 display. I'd rather not go backwards...

2) I'm sick of this 60Hz refresh rate. I want more frames per second.


What am I to do?
 
Are these new CMO 23.6" TN panels genuinely 120 frames per second? of the fake 120Hz with black frame insertion? (or other frame interpolation effect)
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/news_archive/18.htm#acer_g245
1920x1080 not 1920x1200

You could always try the NEC EA23WMi on DisplayPort and get 83 frames per second
 
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I'm very doubtful that there will be any 1920x1200. Since market would prefer converting to 1920x1080 and seeing especially how these 120Hz are targeted towards entertainment such as gaming but for the manufacturers it exists only like 3 categories, "business", "professional" (image editing etc) and "entertainment" and in entertainment gaming and movie watching etc are all included and therefore they'll make sure to mention 1920x1080 will be great for full hd movie resolution yadda yadda.
 
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1466381

shouldn't be long...

and higher redraw rate does not mean higher FPS, it just means higher redraw rate

Can you explain that a bit? I mean, doesn't a higher screen refresh rate mean that there is support for higher FPS? On a 60 Hz display the max is 60 FPS, on a 120 Hz display the max is 120 FPS - provided of course that your computer can run a game at that FPS.

Or have I completely misunderstood something? :confused:
 
Can you explain that a bit? I mean, doesn't a higher screen refresh rate mean that there is support for higher FPS? On a 60 Hz display the max is 60 FPS, on a 120 Hz display the max is 120 FPS - provided of course that your computer can run a game at that FPS.

Or have I completely misunderstood something? :confused:

you're correct. on a 60hz display, your visible fps ceiling is 60fps. I think what he meant was that you can exceed that limit, but you just wont see it.
 
Several 120Hz 1920x1080 TN-panel monitors are soon to be released; they may possibly all be the same panel sold by different companies (Acer, LG, ASUS, etc). Yes, these monitors will take 120Hz from the video card.

There has never been even a rumor of a 1920x1200 120Hz monitor. 1920x1200 is definitely on the way out; I would be surprised if there are any factory lines still manufacturing them.
 
Can you explain that a bit? I mean, doesn't a higher screen refresh rate mean that there is support for higher FPS? On a 60 Hz display the max is 60 FPS, on a 120 Hz display the max is 120 FPS - provided of course that your computer can run a game at that FPS.

Or have I completely misunderstood something? :confused:

you're correct. on a 60hz display, your visible fps ceiling is 60fps. I think what he meant was that you can exceed that limit, but you just wont see it.

stevil explained my point
basically if you have a 120hz monitor, that doesn't mean you get 120 FPS all the time, your computer has to be able to run it

there are a number of 75hz compatible displays as well (my Hannspree is 75hz), not sure of all monitors with this support, but they are out there, if you don't need stereo 3D there isn't as much of a point for 120hz
 
if you don't need stereo 3D there isn't as much of a point for 120hz

I don't want 3D but I DO WANT 120Hz and waited 5 years+ for this and used CRT meanwhile. Not all of us have same priorities, for me among the most important is the motion fluidity. For me a 120Hz LCD monitor beats any 60Hz LCD no matter cost. Tried to settle to 60Hz LCDs in the past but always went back to CRTs due to the higher refresh rates which creates better motion fluidity due to the higher attainable fps rates.
 
Several 120Hz 1920x1080 TN-panel monitors are soon to be released; they may possibly all be the same panel sold by different companies (Acer, LG, ASUS, etc). Yes, these monitors will take 120Hz from the video card.

There has never been even a rumor of a 1920x1200 120Hz monitor. 1920x1200 is definitely on the way out; I would be surprised if there are any factory lines still manufacturing them.

why do you say that? Not saying that you're wrong, but 16:10 is still an extremely popular aspect ratio for computer monitors. I don't know why any manufacturer would stop building them at 1920x1200
 
Fixed. Just because you don't have a use for it doesn't make it pointless for everyone. For gaming there is a significant improvement with 120hz.

you don't get to put words in my mouth, sorry

there is no objective data which supports human perception being able to make a discernible difference between a sustained 60 FPS and 120 FPS, and I'm not in the mood for some "I'm genetically superior" rant, there simply is no factual basis for the claim

now if we're debating input lag, thats somewhat different, and theoretically a 120hz display should have lower input lag (....theoretically, one could hope)
 
you don't get to put words in my mouth, sorry

there is no objective data which supports human perception being able to make a discernible difference between a sustained 60 FPS and 120 FPS, and I'm not in the mood for some "I'm genetically superior" rant, there simply is no factual basis for the claim

now if we're debating input lag, thats somewhat different, and theoretically a 120hz display should have lower input lag (....theoretically, one could hope)

I personally am tired of hearing people tell me that I cannot notice a difference between 60 fps and 60+ fps. It is a subjective matter, and it should be left at that irregardless of the existance of "testing" to confirm it. I can personally see a difference, for example, turning 120Hz on and off on my samsung 46" LED tv. At times, it may look odd, almost too smooth, but it is quite noticeable.
 
there is no objective data which supports human perception being able to make a discernible difference between a sustained 60 FPS and 120 FPS, and I'm not in the mood for some "I'm genetically superior" rant, there simply is no factual basis for the claim
60 fps and 120 fps are discernibly different not because human perception registers the extra frames individually, but because it allows the eye to follow a moving object on-screen with less motion smear. Even on an LCD with a stroboscopic backlight, or on a CRT, 120 Hz + 120 fps will look smoother because the stroboscopic nature of the motion will be better hidden. This is not because the eye is directly perceiving the extra frames, but because it is perceiving a kind of "temporal smear" or average of the frames.
 
you don't get to put words in my mouth, sorry

there is no objective data which supports human perception being able to make a discernible difference between a sustained 60 FPS and 120 FPS, and I'm not in the mood for some "I'm genetically superior" rant, there simply is no factual basis for the claim

My father, who has never played a serious video game in his entire life, was able to identify the difference between this VX2265wm running at 60Hz and running at 120Hz within seconds. Ray Charles could tell the difference, and that motherfucker is both blind and dead.
 
I personally am tired of hearing people tell me that I cannot notice a difference between 60 fps and 60+ fps. It is a subjective matter, and it should be left at that irregardless of the existance of "testing" to confirm it. I can personally see a difference, for example, turning 120Hz on and off on my samsung 46" LED tv. At times, it may look odd, almost too smooth, but it is quite noticeable.

not the same technology by a longshot, "120hz" on that TV is motion interpolation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_interpolation

you aren't magically raising your source material to 60 or 120 FPS in doing that either, its a fixed 24 or 30 FPS regardless of what settings you make on the TV, so you aren't watching 120 FPS or 60 FPS, you're watching the same 24 or 30 FPS content (which I might add was likely recorded on film and then digitally transferred, so its got the TMB already "built-in", VERY dramatic difference between that and real-time rendering) and just applying post-processing to deal with the framerate mis-match between the display and source (because a 24hz display looks terrible, and you really can notice a difference)

it isn't a subjective matter just because someone is unaware of the data, many organizations have conducted scientific tests which show that the human visual system is not able to discern individual frames in succession at a rate faster than around 25-30 FPS (it varies depending on how much they contrast, cycled colors is easier than a filmed movie, for example)


60 fps and 120 fps are discernibly different not because human perception registers the extra frames individually, but because it allows the eye to follow a moving object on-screen with less motion smear. Even on an LCD with a stroboscopic backlight, or on a CRT, 120 Hz + 120 fps will look smoother because the stroboscopic nature of the motion will be better hidden. This is not because the eye is directly perceiving the extra frames, but because it is perceiving a kind of "temporal smear" or average of the frames.

its not about less motion "smear", its about more, thats what TMB is all about, and that can be, and is, calculated in software and can be done at any refresh rate

refer to Anand's article on triple buffering and vsync ("Triple Buffering and why we love it") for more explanation, basically it does look more "fluid", not because of the redraw per se, but because you've reduced input lag on the system (as I said, in theory, doubtless some of these new 120hz panels will bork that :eek:) which makes things "feel more fluid"

as you said, it isn't a matter of being able to identify the frames (eyes can't do that at ~30 FPS), but because of the nature of the system we're dealing with (that is, each frame is an instantaneous "dot", at least in most cases), input lag and the like becomes an issue, running the system at 120 FPS will compensate for that aliasing to a degree, but proper TMB implementation will solve it and doesn't require consistent 120 FPS+ performance


as I said, a legitimate 120hz redraw display has no real application outside of stereo 3D or some other system that needs the extra frames for whatever reason, motion interpolation and input lag mitigation are unrelated concepts (and are basically the sum of whats being handed back to me as "proof" that I'm wrong), fact is, a human being cannot look at a display of 60 unique frames per second and view them as discrete objects, however if the display device being used creates trouble by say, introducing a 30 ms delay between pushing a button and an expected "instant" on-screen response, thats a big problem, but is ultimately unrelated to our perception

I'm really not trying to pick a fight with anyone, just provide information
also not saying anything thats been posted is "wrong", there just seems to be some confusion between the concepts of input lag, motion interpolation, frame-rate, and TMB, and their inter-related nature
 
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Up to a certain point (probably between 24 Hz and 60 Hz), increasing the frame rate of an animation will result in an improved perception of motion fluidity even if the eye remains fixed, merely because the tick-tick-tick of the "march of frames" at slower rates can be perceived. This probably can be related to the concept of a "frame rate" of human vision, even though human vision doesn't have a synchronous frame rate. However, this certainly doesn't mean increasing frame rates beyond this point has no benefit. Quite the contrary.

When the eye is following a moving image on-screen, it swivels continuously in the eye socket. However, the on-screen image moves in discrete steps. So while an LCD image stays still for 16.7 ms (on a 60 Hz display), the eye is still moving, and that smears the image across the retina along the direction of the eye's movement. On a 120 Hz display (assuming full frame rate is achieved), there will be half as much motion smear as there is on a 60 Hz display.

And all displays, even stroboscopic displays with no motion smear at all (such as CRTs) benefit from a higher refresh rate in an additional way. In situations where motion must be rendered stroboscopically (such as in 3D games), the lengths of gaps between frames in motion trails not followed by the eye are reduced by a faster displayed frame rate.

Stroboscopic motion looks unnatural unless the eye is precisely following it. While stroboscopic motion in a constant or gradually-changing direction will look nice and natural if the eye follows it, if the eye doesn't follow the motion it will leave behind a "trail" on the perception system (due to persistence of vision), and the gaps in this trail will make it feel unnatural. A fast circular motion or anything else that the eye cannot follow (or isn't following at a given moment) will look unnatural no matter what the eye is doing. This is very easy to test — simply move your mouse around in a small circle, and watch the pointer. Even if there is no physical motion trail on the display device (due to an instant response time), persistence of vision will create the trail anyway.

This is why 60 Hz video is normally filmed at a 1/60 second shutter speed, and 24 Hz film is normally filmed at a 1/24 second shutter speed. The motion blur of each frame joins the motion blur of the next frame seamlessly, resulting in a completed motion blur with no gaps. Even 3D-animated films are often rendered with motion blur for a natural look. The downside is of course that if the eye does follow a moving object when watching this kind of content, the image of the object will still be unavoidably smeared/blurred, no matter what kind of display is used, because it was filmed (or rendered) that way.

Modern video cards cannot apply motion blur in real time, so the stroboscopic look is unavoidable. The only possible improvement in this case is to increase the displayed frame rate, so that the gaps between frames in a "perceptual motion trail" are smaller, more closely resembling natural motion blur.

refer to Anand's article on triple buffering and vsync ("Triple Buffering and why we love it") for more explanation, basically it does look more "fluid", not because of the redraw per se, but because you've reduced input lag on the system (as I said, in theory, doubtless some of these new 120hz panels will bork that :eek:) which makes things "feel more fluid"
It's true that a higher displayed frame rate will reduce total lag (the time between when the user provides input and when the result of that input is seen), even if both the 60 Hz and 120 Hz displays have zero input lag, because of the intrinsic lag due to buffering. However, this effect is going to be very slight. Most of the benefit of 120 Hz, and perception of increased fluidity, comes from the reduction of motion smear, and the reduction of gaps between frames in the perceptual motion trail.
 
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When the eye is following a moving image on-screen, it swivels continuously in the eye socket. However, the on-screen image moves in discrete steps. So while an LCD image stays still for 16.7 ms (on a 60 Hz display), the eye is still moving, and that smears the image across the retina along the direction of the eye's movement. On a 120 Hz display (assuming full frame rate is achieved), there will be half as much motion smear as there is on a 60 Hz display.

And all displays, even stroboscopic displays with no motion smear at all (such as CRTs) benefit from a higher refresh rate in an additional way. In situations where motion must be rendered stroboscopically (such as in 3D games), the lengths of gaps between frames in motion trails not followed by the eye are reduced by a faster displayed frame rate.

Stroboscopic motion looks unnatural unless the eye is precisely following it. While stroboscopic motion in a constant or gradually-changing direction will look nice and natural if the eye follows it, if the eye doesn't follow the motion it will leave behind a "trail" on the perception system (due to persistence of vision), and the gaps in this trail will make it feel unnatural. A fast circular motion or anything else that the eye cannot follow (or isn't following at a given moment) will look unnatural no matter what the eye is doing. This is very easy to test — simply move your mouse around in a small circle, and watch the pointer. Even if there is no physical motion trail on the display device (due to an instant response time), persistence of vision will create the trail anyway.

This is why 60 Hz video is normally filmed at a 1/60 second shutter speed, and 24 Hz film is normally filmed at a 1/24 second shutter speed. The motion blur of each frame joins the motion blur of the next frame seamlessly, resulting in a completed motion blur with no gaps. Even 3D-animated films are often rendered with motion blur for a natural look. The downside is of course that if the eye does follow a moving object when watching this kind of content, the image of the object will still be unavoidably smeared/blurred, no matter what kind of display is used, because it was filmed (or rendered) that way.

Modern video cards cannot apply motion blur in real time, so the stroboscopic look is unavoidable. The only possible improvement in this case is to increase the displayed frame rate, so that the gaps between frames in a "perceptual motion trail" are smaller, more closely resembling natural motion blur.

It's true that a higher displayed frame rate will reduce total lag (the time between when the user provides input and when the result of that input is seen), even if both the 60 Hz and 120 Hz displays have zero input lag, because of the intrinsic lag due to buffering. However, this effect is going to be very slight. Most of the benefit of 120 Hz, and perception of increased fluidity, comes from the reduction of motion smear, and the reduction of gaps between frames in the perceptual motion trail.

you're comparing apples to oranges with film and real-time digital content (and there are graphics cards capable of TMB in hardware (true, none modern), and TMB is already making its way into new software), but I think we're ultimately arriving at the same point from different sides: basically its all a matter of how TAA is being achieved, however this is FAR and away from the original discussion

yes, the TAA effect of a 120hz display is somewhat more accurate, in theory (again we're assuming that manufacturers can manage to not bork something :(), and yes it will have less input lag, yes these are both good things, but neither relates to our ability to actually "see" the extra frames (and in most cases its likely to be wasted "fluff", but like Tim Allen says, more power) nor does it improve our response time or anything of the sort, its just one angle of "smoothing" an image
 
if you don't need stereo 3D there isn't as much of a point for 120hz

i can't argue that people can see more than 60fps, since i personally see little difference anything above 60 (it's barely noticable for me, after 80 i definitly can't see any difference)

However, there is one very important advantage to 120hz monitor to me, and this is vsync tearing. While i could turn on vsync, my hardware isn't all that great, and i have some games that induce an annoying lag with vsync on. Either way, a 120hz monitor will reduce vsync tearing, which i find pretty annoying
 
i can't argue that people can see more than 60fps, since i personally see little difference anything above 60 (it's barely noticable for me, after 80 i definitly can't see any difference)

However, there is one very important advantage to 120hz monitor to me, and this is vsync tearing. While i could turn on vsync, my hardware isn't all that great, and i have some games that induce an annoying lag with vsync on. Either way, a 120hz monitor will reduce vsync tearing, which i find pretty annoying

dig up the anand article in this case, you want triple buffering :)
 
yes, the TAA effect of a 120hz display is somewhat more accurate, in theory (again we're assuming that manufacturers can manage to not bork something :(), and yes it will have less input lag, yes these are both good things, but neither relates to our ability to actually "see" the extra frames (and in most cases its likely to be wasted "fluff", but like Tim Allen says, more power) nor does it improve our response time or anything of the sort, its just one angle of "smoothing" an image
How is it at all relevant whether or not we're actually "seeing" the extra frames, as long as they improve the perception of smoothness? It's of academic interest only.

A direct neural interface could in theory accomplish perfect perceived motion smoothness, without any "wasted frames", but by the time technology is up to that point, the processing power saved by not rendering "fluff" will be beyond moot.

Eyeball tracking might offer an interim solution without rendering extra frames, but the extra frames would still need to be displayed, which would still require a high refresh rate on the display device. And the necessary precision of eyeball tracking is probably beyond current technology anyway.
 
How is it at all relevant whether or not we're actually "seeing" the extra frames, as long as they improve the perception of smoothness? It's of academic interest only.

because its a different topic, instead of claiming "I need 120 FPS I see at 120 FPS" the point is instead that there is a somewhat improved perception of "smoothness" by a 120hz display (iff the system has no other form of TAA), there is no added precision or response time improvement (aside from the input lag problem, as previously mentioned, and I doubt 120hz monitors will measure much better in this respect, sadly)

no idea where you're going with the neural interfaces and eye tracking, but sign me up :)
 
Thanks for the replies MetaGenie. It's exactly what you explain which is the point to me why I want a higher than 60Hz LCD display. Even if I can't see the invidual frames, I can EASILY notice improvement in motion smoothness at higher Hz/FPS. For me I can notice difference at least up to 120Hz, but between 100 and 120Hz the difference is very minimal but between 85 and 100Hz I can notice a huge difference still. The scale which our eyes is able to notice a difference in smoothness at higher Hz/FPS has to be logaritmic because you can notice big differences between lower refresh rates but then the difference quickly plains out at a higher refresh rate setting so there's like no difference visible after a certain amount. Where exactly it plains out probably varies from person to another but I'm sure any people should be able to notice a difference at least up to 85Hz.

I did some tests a couple of years ago on a 60Hz 19" 1280x1024 LG display that was also able to run at 75Hz @ 1280x1024 if using VGA cable. I let my bro switch randomly between 60 and 75Hz for 10 times and then fired up UT99 for me and I was able to tell if it was 60 or 75Hz EVERY 10 times. Since then I've been 100% sure refresh rate matters to me. I could probably have done the same test only by moving the mouse pointer around on the desktop to tell the difference. I've also done many tests on CRTs switching between the different refresh rates and always came to the conclusion that up to 120Hz I can see a difference but not any higher or the difference above that is too small to be worth of significance and between 100 and 120Hz it's very small difference so for me it's somewhere between 100 and 120Hz where my eyes lose the perception that it starts becoming more fluid at least.

EDIT: When I think about it, it's weird that it doesn't yet exist any unit for motion smoothness like it exists for example luminance E [lx] for lamps. Suppose it could be a bit difficult to work out some formula for it though but at least it would make sense being a logaritmic scale but exactly how the formula should look like that's a good question. :p

But if I was to sketch a graph how I'd personally interpret motion smoothness it would look sth like this:

 
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RPGWiZaRD, did you increase your mouse sample rate when doing that test? (In Windows XP/Vista/7 this can be done with HIDUSBF.) USB mice default to 125 Hz. Increasing the rate might make >120 Hz refresh rates look better.
 
RPGWiZaRD, did you increase your mouse sample rate when doing that test? (In Windows XP/Vista/7 this can be done with HIDUSBF.) USB mice default to 125 Hz. Increasing the rate might make >120 Hz refresh rates look better.

How do you adjust this exactly, I cannot find the option in Windows 7.

As for the comment earlier with regards to 120Hz TVs not being the same thing as 120 fps, I would argue they are the same. It is irrelevant what is being displayed. Granted, TVs do the same frame five times in a row to achieve 120Hz; however, it is still 5 individual frames. The end result is the smoothness that someone else mentioned. The smoothing effect of 120Hz is perceivable as everyone agrees. Therefore, an individual would perceive 120 fps smoother than 60 fps, which correct me if I am wrong, is the whole intention of this thread: to see if there are any computer displays that will do 120Hz in order to make games appear smoother.
 
RPGWiZaRD, did you increase your mouse sample rate when doing that test? (In Windows XP/Vista/7 this can be done with HIDUSBF.) USB mice default to 125 Hz. Increasing the rate might make >120 Hz refresh rates look better.

I've only tested raising sample rate a couple of times but due to being used to 125Hz it didn't give me any benefits and would have to find the optimal sensitivity settings again etc. What I'm talking about here is not the responsiveness of the mouse (which ofc also increases with higher Hz) but how smooth the movements on screen appears to be for my eyes. A good way to illustrate this would be simply using a paper block to draw an animation by doing small changes on each paper. The smaller changes and more papers you use for the animation the smoother it'll look like when you skim through it. The same can be said about monitors but here we talk about frames, the more frames used, the smaller the "gap" between each frame will be. Yes we cannot see an invidual frame when talking about 60 frames or 120 frames per second but our eyes/brain will still notice the difference in smoothness above 60 FPS, it looks more more natural. 60 FPS for me can never create realism, no matter how great a game looks like, it doesn't feel near as smooth as when you for example move your hand in real life. For realism we might even need 500Hz, who knows, even if going from 150Hz to 300Hz, the difference might not be a very huge gain at all, say like going from 85 to 90Hz but it might still require those insane refresh rates for it to replicate smoothness equal to real life. But going to 120Hz as opposed to 60Hz is a very very good start and I don't have any real need for higher refresh rates but just saying, you can never have enough of it, higher refresh rate is always better.

Man sometimes I wish I had never went past 75Hz on a CRT, then I could have lived happily with a Dell 2209WA today. I've literally tried forcing me to get used to 60/75Hz but I couldn't get used to it when I had the option to go to another monitor with higher refresh rate.
 
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RPGWiZaRD, did you increase your mouse sample rate when doing that test? (In Windows XP/Vista/7 this can be done with HIDUSBF.) USB mice default to 125 Hz. Increasing the rate might make >120 Hz refresh rates look better.
How do you adjust this exactly, I cannot find the option in Windows 7.
How to Increase USB Sample Rate in Windows Vista/7
This works in Windows XP too — under XP, just skip the step involving dseo13b.exe.
 
How to Increase USB Sample Rate in Windows Vista/7
This works in Windows XP too — under XP, just skip the step involving dseo13b.exe.

That link isn't for XP - windows XP is a doddle to do mind you, a quick google will find a little programme that can do it.

Windows vista and 7 are a bit of a nightmare due to all the driver signing (i.e. windows detects the driver doesn't match what it expects and refuses to run it). Note that thread last refers to windows 7 RC - not updated since May. Check out all the comments at the bottom, lots of problems still.

Incidentally that Acer 23.6 120hz monitor has pretty bad input lag (which is dumb considering in every other way seems the fastest thing out there!). If you are a serious UT gamer you might well notice.
 
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Incidentally that Acer 23.6 120hz monitor has pretty bad input lag (which is dumb considering in every other way seems the fastest thing out there!).

The GD245HQ? Where did you hear that? The reviews have said otherwise...
 
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The GD245HQ? Where did you hear that? The reviews have said otherwise...

I think he refers to the digitalversus "Input lag vs CRT" test, 18ms avg and 50ms max, compared to say 14ms avg and 21ms max for ViewSonic VX2268wm or 12ms avg for 2233rz and 20ms max.

http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=38&mo1=631&p1=7352&ma2=41&mo2=596&p2=6823&ph=1

Average of 18ms is pretty acceptable (1 frame) but 50ms max (3 frames behind) sounds worrying. Digitalversus test crew seems to be far from any hardcore gamers and only recommend gaming LCDs based on ghosting factor in their review, where Acer is the fastest of them all but then it's behind in input lag, hardly worth crowning it as the absolutely best LCD for gaming then? I will need to wait for some more than a "casual gamer's" opinion about input lag on the Acer b4 I'm willing to concider it. It's a shame really because it's got less ghosting and better colors than both 22" 120Hz LCDs.
 
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wonder what the cost of these monitors are going to be, the TVs are almost a $1000 more for 120Hz (maybe that has come down, but that is the way it was when I bought my TV just a few months back)

But I'm going to bet that Acer will cost a arm and a leg... not that I would buy Acer and can't think of a reason anyone would buy a orange monitor if they weren't going to paint it the minute they got it home... LOL
 
You can pre-order for the rough equivalent of 500 USD. That's the early-adopter price anyway. It should cost more than a 'normal' monitor because of the hardware needed to accept the extra bandwidth but '120Hz' raises the cost of a TV even more because it requires buffering and interpolating individual frames. (plus TV's require larger MVA/IPS panels)
 
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It's been studied that the human eye can see up to several hundred fps. Factors aren't limited to normal motion, they can include:

Fast velocities
Large amounts of action
Light sources or other objects that blinks several times a second

All are much easily noticable at 120 fps and above, and not as easily noticable at 60 fps and below.

With all of this said, if a person makes the argument that 'the human eye can only see blah blah blah', it's pretty obvious they are a console gamer.
 
It's listed for preorder in the UK for 295~£300, should translate to around 330~350 EUR in other parts in europe and probably $399 in the US.

You can pre-order for the rough equivalent of 500 USD.

You can't do direct currency conversions and expect you'd get a accurate estimation, trust me I'm a hardware freak and followed european and american price differences for a while. UK is also usually rather expensive in europe, germany, the netherlands etc a bit cheaper. The best estimation you get from UK prices is when you take the non VAT price in this case £260 which converts to ~$420 and then shave off a couple of ten bucks cuz stuff is cheaper in the US and you get $399. And also they sell VX2265wm on newegg for only $249 so how would you expect them to get it sold for $500? LOL Even $399 sounds like too much compared to $249 for VX2265wm 22" 120Hz so might even end up at $350, so I say 350~$399. Even the VX2268wm in finland costs 300 EUR here... so sometimes it's good to be an american.
 
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guess that isn't that bad... no where what I thought it would cost anyways..

Would like 3 of those bad boys sitting on my desk for Eyefinity, and then get another HD5850 :p

to bad I already bought 3 Dells :rolleyes:
 
you're comparing apples to oranges with film and real-time digital content (and there are graphics cards capable of TMB in hardware (true, none modern), and TMB is already making its way into new software), but I think we're ultimately arriving at the same point from different sides: basically its all a matter of how TAA is being achieved, however this is FAR and away from the original discussion

yes, the TAA effect of a 120hz display is somewhat more accurate, in theory (again we're assuming that manufacturers can manage to not bork something :(), and yes it will have less input lag, yes these are both good things, but neither relates to our ability to actually "see" the extra frames (and in most cases its likely to be wasted "fluff", but like Tim Allen says, more power) nor does it improve our response time or anything of the sort, its just one angle of "smoothing" an image

please just stop posting

there is a very good reason people who take fps gaming and the like seriously enough to still use crt displays over lcds, or be very excited about the new true 120hz lcd displays. it's pretty obvious you don't understand why, and probably never will, so you really have no place in this thread posting this misleading crap, and frankly, i was tired of seeing the whole "the human eye can't discern above x amount of frames per second, so anything above x refresh rate/frame rate is useless" about 10 years ago.
 
For high action games I still find that running my CRT at 100+hz makes the game seem more comprehensible in desperate times. It's almost as if my brain can better keep up with what's going on, and it enables me to react better to the situations.

Basically higher refresh rate for me = less "wtf just happened" moments in fast shooters.
 
Incidentally that Acer 23.6 120hz monitor has pretty bad input lag (which is dumb considering in every other way seems the fastest thing out there!). If you are a serious UT gamer you might well notice.
The method that digitalversus uses to measure input lag is quite flawed. In most cases the only number that means much will be their "minimum", which in this case is 0 ms and is probably the real input lag of the Acer GD245HQ. (Sometimes digitalversus has a stray outlier that screws up the minimum, but that does not appear to be the case here.)

Not to mention that very few CRTs can do 1920x1080@120Hz, so they probably didn't do the test at native resolution and refresh rate.
 
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