Do you put certs in your signature?

you guys are completely missing the point. My original point was that you wouldnt put certs in signatures just like you wouldnt put a degree in your signature.

first of all, you guys are milking this CCIE or whatever it is, i dont know much about it but i will give you the benefit of the doubt you have to be extremely well knowledged in it to get it and probably should be highly looked upon, there are certs in other trade fields (auto motive, machining, electrician...yada yada yada) that are highly regarded. Ok what about the other million certificates out there, the normal certificate? i think the OP's topic was certs in signature not CCIE in signature. I dont know who you guys are kidding you know exactly what the majority of certificates are like.
 
You have no idea what a CCIE is and you are saying we are milking it..

It's a certification. Basically one of, if not the highest in networking. Like a doctorate. That might be why it has a distinction, because somebody would put it in their signature as most doctors put a Dr in front of their name.

Since CCIE is a certification it's a discussion point on this subject. "certs in signature".

To take your point further, I suspect that nurses use their title in their signature at times. LPN or RN . Just as a RN has more training than a LPN. A CCIE has more training that a CCNP.

Certifications tell people what you are certified in. Meaning you have at least a base knowledge in a particular area. You typically need to be recertified after so many years. Degrees mean you have at least a base knowledge in a particular area. A degree does NOT have to be redone every X years. Meaning a masters degree in computer science from 1982 is probably not as pertinent as a CCIE as they need to recertify every ?3? years or loose it.

I do know what Certificates are like. They are layered and tell people that you have at least X knowledge on X subject.
Sometimes they belong in correspondence, and sometimes not.

There does seem to be a bit of a consensus in this thread that people who put them in all their correspondence are basically trying to show off.

In someones elses words. "Theres a time and a place for everything".
 
It's a certification. Basically one of, if not the highest in networking. Like a doctorate. That might be why it has a distinction, because somebody would put it in their signature as most doctors put a Dr in front of their name.
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whoa dont even compare a certificate to a doctorate, you my friend have NO clue what goes into a doctorate degree
 
RHollister said:
whoa dont even compare a certificate to a doctorate, you my friend have NO clue what goes into a doctorate degree
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Actualy Yes I do, but admitidly you dont know what go's into a CCIE.

Bring the facts not the banter.
 
Maybe I should make this clearer.

A CCIE is like a Dr as far as certifications are concerned. Yes it can take longer to get a Doctorate and a lot more money. Once again they are 2 diffrent things, but you might put them in signatures. (the original point) because of their statures.

Also if I had a choice of asking a Dr of some sort of IT degree or a CCIE a question about networking, my first choice would be the CCIE.
 
moetop said:
Maybe I should make this clearer.

A CCIE is like a Dr as far as certifications are concerned. Yes it can take longer to get a Doctorate and a lot more money. Once again they are 2 diffrent things, but you might put them in signatures. (the original point) because of their statures.

Also if I had a choice of asking a Dr of some sort of IT degree or a CCIE a question about networking, my first choice would be the CCIE.
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Good points all around. In the CCIE vs Doctorate debate, I'll add this: how many Doctorate programs in IT exist, and do they have an 80% washout rate like the CCIE does? Its reported that only about 2 in 10 pass the lab on their first try, and at $1500 a sitting not many choose to retest more than twice. That's also part of what makes the CCIE lab such a bear--its hella expensive.
 
Just to chime in...it also depends on WHAT you do.

If you are "pure IT" then perhaps it is overkill when talking to other techies.

However if you work in a client interaction position where they PAY to see those certs in your name then they go in there.

As a Consultant I do list my certs in my sigs to clients....hell the CISA is a PITA and I am damn proud of that beastie (and it, like the CISSP, requires years of experience in the field to get it, 5 to be exact).
 
do u guys know what it takes to be get a doctorate you guys are out of your mind. lol ask a techie a question over a guy with a doctorate you crack me up you guys need to leave your little hardOCP world
 
RHollister said:
do u guys know what it takes to be get a doctorate you guys are out of your mind. lol ask a techie a question over a guy with a doctorate you crack me up you guys need to leave your little hardOCP world
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i think you should just leave the thread since you're not contributing anything to it. yes, we all know DR degree is not cake, but neither is an RHCA or a CCIE.


my opinion on certs, don't put down comptia's or low level certs. and if you do, only do it the first time of correspondence

CCNP, MCSE (so-so), CCIE, RHCE/A, CISSP, etc are all worthy of being in your signature,
 
RHollister said:
do u guys know what it takes to be get a doctorate you guys are out of your mind. lol ask a techie a question over a guy with a doctorate you crack me up you guys need to leave your little hardOCP world
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You might be surprised how much a techie can know. Just because someone is a PhD doesn't mean they are God.

Do you have a Doctorate?
 
Boscoh said:
You might be surprised how much a techie can know. Just because someone is a PhD doesn't mean they are God.

Do you have a Doctorate?
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Aint that the truth. IMHO, a degree does not make an expert. It just means you've read more books, written more papers, blah, blah, blah. All of which != expertise. Expertise comes from experience, pure and simple (literally and figuratively, go figure).

Here is a simple example straight from my past:
A year ago when I got stationed at my current location, when at an in-processing meeting I found out the woman next to me had gotten her PhD 6 months prior. During those 6 moths she was unemployed due to lack of experience. The only job she was qualified for was in acedamia (and shall we say, specialized work). Fast forward 1 year and I'm out of the military with over 8 years experience, an associates degree, and a few entry level certs. Guess who was beating away head-hunters with a stick (and makes $20K more)? (hint: not her)

And here's a nugget for thought: if having a degree was such a damned great thing towards someones ability to do a job, why do medical doctors have to spend time doing residencies under the guidance of an experienced doctor? (Oops, there's that damn word again.)

Now, can we please get this thread back on track?
 
BobSutan said:
Aint that the truth. IMHO, a degree does not make an expert. It just means you've read more books, written more papers, blah, blah, blah. All of which != expertise. Expertise comes from experience, pure and simple (literally and figuratively, go figure).

Here is a simple example straight from my past:
A year ago when I got stationed at my current location, when at an in-processing meeting I found out the woman next to me had gotten her PhD 6 months prior. During those 6 moths she was unemployed due to lack of experience. The only job she was qualified for was in acedamia (and shall we say, specialized work). Fast forward 1 year and I'm out of the military with over 8 years experience, an associates degree, and a few entry level certs. Guess who was beating away head-hunters with a stick (and makes $20K more)? (hint: not her)

And here's a nugget for thought: if having a degree was such a damned great thing towards someones ability to do a job, why do medical doctors have to spend time doing residencies under the guidance of an experienced doctor? (Oops, there's that damn word again.)

Now, can we please get this thread back on track?
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Certainly.

A CCNA doesn't let people know shit about my expertise, but my job title on the other hand, whether it be Senior SE IPT Division or Channel Sales Manager, says alot more. If I had a major certification, then I might consider sigging it, but in all seriousness I don't even use sigs ever. Extremely impersonal and leaves an opportunity to say something unintentionally. (come across as elitist or bragging)

RHollister is an obvious troll, can we get a leash on him?
 
megabyte said:
RHollister is an obvious troll, can we get a leash on him?
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No kidding, and based on the grammar of his posts, he's not even out of junior high school yet. And RH, get it straight, we're talking about IT certs here, not college degrees.
 
I agree that a CCIE is extremely difficult to get, but i do not think it can be compared to a doctorate. It is possible to pass the CCIE if you have the requisite experience and knowledge. Whereas with a doctorate, you have to complete original work, that is, work that has not been published, ever. One of my former CS professors told me how he spent 5 years working on his dissertation and someone published a month before him and he had to start all over again. To me that says a lot more that the $1500 a sitting CCIE.
 
From my perspective:
A college degree in computer science has always led one down the developer road. Back when I was in college there were no sys admin type courses. It was all applied computer language development. Today, I am aware of Masters and Doctorate course in IT Business Management, but these groom one for Chief Information Officer and Board Room type positions. An Associates, Bachelors, Masters, or PhD in Computer Science says developer and programming to me.

The IT Certification paths have always been geared towards hands on sys/network administration, deployment, and support fields
 
Those on both sides of the fence have good points. However... Neither a degree (Assoc., Bach., Master's, or PhD) nor all the Certifications in the world make someone smarter than anyone else. Education in any form =! the ability to APPLY the knowledge you've learned. I've met and worked with plenty of (I'll pick on MCSE's 1st) MCSE's of all Windows tracks that don't fully comprehend the concept of a Domain or how to plug in a serial mouse... And I've also met and work with everyday people with all levels of degrees that sometimes don't even understand the simplest of concepts even in their own fields of study. I think what most people are missing is that a Piece of paper (Cert or Deg.) does not make you an expert in any field.

Also, nobody is trying to belittle the effort required for a doctorate by any means, this all started becuase of a misunderstood analogy.
 
Nate7311 said:
I think what most people are missing is that a Piece of paper (Cert or Deg.) does not make you an expert in any field.
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I couldn't agree more. I think that most people who dont have practical working experience with someone who is a CCIE, or CISSP, or PhD, or Masters, or whatever have a natural tendency to assume that person is an expert in whatever they are applying that knowledge to.

I've met at least one of each of the above that was, by far, not an expert in anything. I think what certifications should do, and what they are truly intended to do, is to jump out and say "HEY! I know SOMETHING", and grab your attention. It's a person's life and career experiences and their own ability to truly comprehend and apply what they learn that makes them an "expert," not a certification or degree, even if the word "expert" is used in the description of whatever they've got.

That said, I revert back to my original statement (and back on topic!) about using certifications in initial-contact emails, where they serve the purpose of saying that I know at least something and that I'm not just a bus boy who was told to contact you on behalf of someone else. I also agree with BobSutan that they are (perhaps) most appropriate for use in job hunting. A lot of times HR people are trained to key in on those fancy acronyms that we pay so much money (and sometimes work REALLY hard) to get.
 
Protoform-X said:
"Total of Storage Networking CCIEs: 11"
Talk about an elite/exclusive group! Not even enough to fill a donut box.
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Mmmmm, elite donuts.

Everyone's raised good points here (Ok most people...), and we've seen that it all led back to the statement that's been preached time and time again in the IT industry. "Certifications and Degrees does not necessarily make someone an expert."

Bravo! It's the truth.
 
Blitzrommel said:
Mmmmm, elite donuts.

Everyone's raised good points here (Ok most people...), and we've seen that it all led back to the statement that's been preached time and time again in the IT industry. "Certifications and Degrees does not necessarily make someone an expert."

Bravo! It's the truth.
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If it is a CCIE cert then yes, it makes them an expert no matter what.
 
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