Do you like the new Windows user interface?

Stuh505

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 15, 2004
Messages
488
In XP applications are very easy to control because they all follow the same basic layout. Not just the minimize/maximize crap but mainly the fact that almost every program has a File, Edit, View, etc. menu bar. This makes picking up and learning a new application a breeze.

It seems that with Vista and Windows 7 they have spent so much time on trying to design a "New" and "Simple Looking" user interface that they actually forget to make an efficient or easy to use interface.

Look at how the interfaces have evolved on simple applications like Office, Explorer, and the Control Panel in windows. In office and explorer they have gotten rid of the nicely organized menus and replaced them with lots of panels filled with large icons. This makes it extremely difficult to figure out how to do even simple tasks, and trying to do any new task requires flipping back and forth between panels hovering over every individual icon until figuring out the right one. Usually its faster to just Google anything you might want to do, like "How to adjust page size in Word" (example). That should have been an embarrasment for MS...

But it's the same in Explorer. They got rid of all the organization and made a jumbled mess of buttons. When they hide the familiar file menus they just slow things down and frustrate users.

Now look at the main operating system. They took away all of the customization options available on right click and replaced them with a "Personalize" page that only lets you personalize 1 thing: the theme. Within the control panel, they have progressively added more and more random icons making it confusing to find anything. Fortunately there is a hierarchical organization, right? Sort of...except that most of the items are completely mis-categorized, so that you might have to check the sound options to find an option pertaining to something completely disparate like display options. It's not even really hierarchical, the menu options are mostly circular loops that can confuse a person for hours. Even worse, the menus are all written as if they were for a 5 year old, having wordy titles like "Make my computer easier to see," or "Make my computer easier to use". These types of naming conventions are redundant, slow to read, do not actually give meaningful information, confuse the user, slow down the user, and demean the user's intelligence.

On the internet people will mention this type of criticism by admitting that it may take 5 or 6 clicks to get an action done where in XP it only took 2 clicks. However they neglect to mention that all 5 or 6 of those clicks were completely unintuitive, and the average user might have spent a total of 100 or 200 clicks trying to navigate circular decision trees before finally giving up and googling a phrase like, "How to change font in Windows 7". It baffles me why the Personalize page does not simply have a properly categorized hierarchy of features which can be personalized -- including graphical and system tweaks.

In Vista they removed the cascading windows with a single list. Some people like this. I can't understand why they like it, because it's basically just a mirror of the left-pane of the Explorer window. If I want to find a program by navigating through the hierarchy, I right click on Start->Explore and select it. This feature was already in XP so they weren't really adding anything new when they made it the Left click in Vista and beyond. The only real difference is that the view is now crunched into a tiny viewing area forcing you to scroll up and down a whole lot.

That said, many times using an explorer-style list to navigate is slow. The entire purpose of the cascading start menu is that by quickly flicking the mouse you can fill up as much of the screen content as possible, thereby allowing you to select the proper application instantly without having to do any scrolling up or down. This feature is lost and that's a definite loss of productivity, albeit small.

Then there's ClearType. Some genius is patting himself on the back for increasing the resolution with color anti aliasing. the problem is that the resolution isn't really any higher, and using it just makes everything look smudgy and painful to the eye. It's not as if the increased resolution is necessary -- fonts like Tahoma that are used in XP are designed to be very crisp and easy to read without anti aliasing. Luckily it can be turned off.

Anyway, I realize this is somewhat of a rant...but it bothers me that a company that supposedly spends so much time doing market research can continue to take such critically backward steps by making an interface progressively less and less user friendly, all under the guise of "Personalization options to make my computer easier to use."

Users don't really have a choice. You can prolong the switch to Vista or 7 but you can't prolong forever. You probably can't switch to a different OS either, unless all you do is browse the web and you never need to run any real applications or games. So it does bother me that we are all made to suffer by using a progressively less efficient user interface that doesn't even have a classic mode.
 
You can (and probably should) say every word of that about OSX in general as well.

As for the menus, Start and whatever, I don't use 'em anymore. With Windows 7, I press the Windows key and type what I want, within a few letters it appears. I don't need to navigate through menus ever again, and on top of the oh, 200 keyboard shortcuts I've managed to either figure out, track down, or create myself, I simply don't need the Start Menu on the Taskbar to be honest - and there's a "hack" out there that actually removes it from the Taskbar completely, at least from the "orb" perspective.

As for ClearType, on LCDs, it works better for me and improves the legibility dramatically even on CRTs which I rarely if ever use anymore. Never could figure out why it's such a big hassle myself.

And for the rant, don't worry, we all do it from time to time. I'll say it again: if you can do better, go for it, and I'll be first in line with $1,000 cash to buy it - that's my standing offer going on 15 years now, ain't never seen anyone take me up on it. I see a lot of opinions tossed out consistently on the Internet from the "They should do this, they should do that, I can do it better..." or such attitudes...

So, put up or shut up - that goes out to anyone reading this that's even thinking about commenting on how Microsoft shoulda/coulda/woulda do better.

And they do listen, Microsoft that is. Especially with Windows 7 as the feedback pouring into the beta program is making somewhat dramatic changes almost in real-time (from a beta period perspective) to the OS itself. The RC release will be absolutely spectacular and I doubt we'll see an RC2, and Windows 7 I expect to RTM by the end of June, if not sooner.

Classic mode... bleh. It's old, hence the name "Classic," it's time to put it to rest and learn something new. ;)
 
You've brought up some good points. Thats the reason why i don't use office 2007. All the small buttons in the bar were removed to make it harder to find what you need. I noticed most of all of microsofts software was a lot more straight forward and simple from 2003 and back. Now they are hiding everything in sub categories which are hidden in other categories in other folders. They are doing that now so people wouldn't hurt themselves by deleting something important. It does sacrifice simplicity though. Hopefully windows 7 has classic mode for all the control panels and all that. I haven't tested it out yet but it looks good so far from all the screen shots.
 
The key for Office 2007 was allowing the user to exploit features, and I have to say, in that sense, it was a tremendous success. All that stuff that I never even thought about, knew about, hidden beneath the layers in 2003, all of a sudden came alive in 2007. It was like I was using a seriously upgraded version of Office, even though behind the scenes, not as much changed as I thought. Now, I think I speak for the average user. They don't have extensive training in the software, and don't know a bunch of crazy macros to get to where they want, and look exactly where they need to. I usually only have an idea where to find things, and then I find it more easily with the ribbons via intuition as compared to finding it in Office 2003 via memorization (ie. "oh, I think the last time I used it, it was under the Edit menu"). Again, it's the concept of command line vs. graphical interfaces: memorization and recall vs. intuition and discovery. Now, I think what Microsoft could've done was to keep both options available for different users, but I guess they decided to push the ribbon. From a technological standpoint, I don't think that's a bad decision. If they still allow similar hotkeys, menus can still be accessed in similar ways for the power users, whereas the general user can be happy as well.

I'll add to this comment with Vista by saying that one thing I really love is their breadcrumbs explorer. Instead of having to highlight a path to go to it, I just click on the path where I want to go. Less clicks, less typing. What I don't like, however, is that there is no way to customize a direct link to the "Downloads" folder, which I use 50x more than My Documents, and 1000x more than other folders like Videos, Music, Pictures. I have to click on my User folder, then, my Downloads folder, which is just terrible (but I've gotten used to it). Another positive is the windows key and search functionality. I used to go "click start -> click run-> type cmd", now it's just "windows key -> type cmd". By the way, one thing about the explorer and all the buttons. All you have to do is press alt, and you get all those same buttons. I'm not sure if you knew (since it's sort of unintuitive), but that allows you to access more or less the exact same functionality as XP.
 
Uhmmm... you can drag the Downloads "folder" directly to the Favorites section in Explorer and wham, instant shortcut to Downloads that's always there at the top, even rearrange the order if you like. Was one of the first things I simply had to do with Vista on the rare occasions that I've used it... dump everything in that Favorites section and replace 'em with the proper shortcuts I use the most. ;)
 
Although Vista's Explorer and the Office 2007 interface are different, I found I adapted to them quickly, and have no problem with them now. The Office Ribbon in particular does serve its purpose of making the available options clearer than burying them in menus, although if you have to regularly change panes it can be a slight inconvenience.

I also don't miss cascading menus on the Start Menu, because now I almost never use the list at all. Far quicker to type in a few characters and search - I find myself trying to do this on XP all the time. I guess if you keep all your shortcuts neatly organised then a cascading menu isn't bad, but I just ended up with a sprawling random list which took ages to find anything in.

I love ClearType though; I held out with Windows 2000 on my desktop for some time after XP was released, but then got a laptop with XP installed and enabled ClearType. I then had to stop using Windows 2000 and CRT monitors since text seemed jagged and ugly without it, but crisp and correct when it's enabled.

However, I don't like the Windows 7 taskbar's combining of shortcuts and running programs, which I feel is confusing and unnecessary, and an obvious effort in copying OS X's Dock despite this being a much-criticised UI element.
 
People complaining about the UI simply don't like change. Use it for a while and you'll find it's great.
Even the new ribbon interface in Office 2007 is great. At first I absolute hated it. But once I took the time to understand the changes it all makes sense and now I can navigate more quickly.

The new superbar in windows 7 is a god send. Keeps everything nice and organized and reduces clutter.

And everything can be customized to quickly access the things you use regularly. It's highly customizable. And I find it intuitive.
 
I like how they moved Documents to library rather than user folder, so I don't have to look at those stupid folders I just end up hiding anyways. The library system is pretty neat. Like already mentioned, I was a little concerned with the Download folder, but I actually like the Explorer Navigator on 7, so it's easy to just click it from your library to open downloads. I always disabled Explorer Navigator in Vista/XP.
 
I don't like Explorer in Vista or Win7. I find it unintuitive and a bit slow. Freecommander to the rescue. This is how a file manger should be. Only thing I don't like about Freecommander is that it doesn't make use of my back/forward buttons on the mouse but other than that it pwns Explorer.

http://www.freecommander.com/

I like the look of the start menu in Vista but for usability it is s step backwards from XP, IMO.
 
You've brought up some good points. Thats the reason why i don't use office 2007. All the small buttons in the bar were removed to make it harder to find what you need. I noticed most of all of microsofts software was a lot more straight forward and simple from 2003 and back. Now they are hiding everything in sub categories which are hidden in other categories in other folders. They are doing that now so people wouldn't hurt themselves by deleting something important. It does sacrifice simplicity though. Hopefully windows 7 has classic mode for all the control panels and all that. I haven't tested it out yet but it looks good so far from all the screen shots.

I love the ribbon interface. I find Office 2007 to be far faster when it comes to using it. At least after learning where everything is located again. ;)

And yes I love the interface that is coming with Windows 7. I like Vista's interface as well.

The Win7 devs just posted on their blog a whole list of changes being made to the interface thanks to the beta. Go read. :)

http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/02/26/some-changes-since-beta.aspx
 
I don't like Explorer in Vista or Win7. I find it unintuitive and a bit slow. Freecommander to the rescue. This is how a file manger should be. Only thing I don't like about Freecommander is that it doesn't make use of my back/forward buttons on the mouse but other than that it pwns Explorer.

http://www.freecommander.com/

I like the look of the start menu in Vista but for usability it is s step backwards from XP, IMO.

Explorer in Windows 7 is very cool. Federated searches are a simple and powerful touch. Libraries are extremely nice. The performance is just fine on my Eee PC Atom netbook let alone anything more powerful, which would be anything else besides another netbook.

The Start Menu is simply a ton better because anything can be accessed via the keyboard and is compact. XP's Start Menu is a big mess on a small screen display like a netbook.

Freecommander is a powerful file explorer its overkill for the average user who simply needs to find, move, copy and search. The Windows 7 explorer handle these basic jobs with aplomb.
 
Well, in terms of User Interfaces, I'd have to say Windows Vista > Windows 7 > A Dead Horse > Windows XP > Two Dead Horses > GNOME > Xfce > KDE.

However, that's just my opinion, and I'm not going to hold it against anybody if they disagree.
 
The performance is just fine on my Eee PC Atom netbook

I didn't mean performance. I meant usability is slow compared to something like Freecommander. In Freecommander you have two panes open so moving between two folders/drives/partitions is much faster. Win7 explorer is better than Vista's but could still be improved. I *really* dislike Vista's explorer and is why I ended up using Freecommander in the first place.

Freecommander has file wipe built in too. No need to use a separate app or go to command line. Just select the file to wipe and go file/wipe. Everyone needs a file wiper even if they don't think they do.
 
FreeCommander's UI is abominable from a usability standpoint. Ignoring the fact that it looks pulled out of Windows 3.1, just in general, I mean....

fc1_en.png


fc2_en.png


Seriously? That's worse than GIMP.

To the OP: Have you even tried Office 2007? File Menus are miserable. To anyone without a photographic memory and years of experience using them, it's impossible to find anything in them. The Ribbon quickly and intuitively exposes all of Office's functionality as it's relevant. It's a quantum leap forward in usability. And in Vista/Win7, they realized that hunting through the Start Menu/Control Panel is slow, so they made it searchable. You're not SUPPOSED to be digging through long lists of text - just go to the search bar, type a few characters, and look what happens.
 
As far as Im concerned XP is one of the worst designed OS's of all time. Explorer in XP has to be some sick demented joke Microsoft designers decided to pull on the public, that side bar was just.... omg those fucking idiots.

Sure its no Linux as far as shear eye bleeding suckness is concerned, but it still sucks REALLY bad.

I was so happy when Vista came out because XP's interface was driving me insane. Its just so damn pathetic and embarassing to know that a group of human beings designed that.
 
I like the new 7 taskbar and the ribbon interface being introduced to all applications. The only Microsoft app with a UI I can't stand is Internet Explorer (7 and 8). With 7 they dropped the standard file menu and split the interface. It just seems bulky and ugly to me. Firefox 3 manages to look nice on any OS without dramatically rearranging everything, and you can always configure it to look however you want.

I also personally prefer the classic start menu (just the start menu, not the classic theme). The Vista/7 start menu is perfectly fine, I just hate having buttons that I never use. More customization options would be nice. There was a thread about this back when the 7 beta came out.
 
FreeCommander's UI is abominable from a usability standpoint. Ignoring the fact that it looks pulled out of Windows 3.1, just in general, I mean....





Seriously? That's worse than GIMP.

Aw, you miss your flashy transparent icons? How is it less usable than Windows explorer? You've got tow panes there open at once and you can configure each to default to open top whatever you want. And the big plus is that it doesn't change your view to big huge fluffy teletubby icons like Vista does all the time.
 
And the big plus is that it doesn't change your view to big huge fluffy teletubby icons like Vista does all the time.

I guess we aren't using the same Vista...

I don't have any issues with Explorer, but whatever floats your boat.
 
I think the point that poster is trying to make is that the dual-pane concept of an Explorer file manager is superior to a single pane as Explorer always has been. The third party replacements almost always focus on dual-pane behavior so you can have two entirely different folders open at the same time and drag-drop between them.

However, with Aero Snap nowadays that's not such a big deal by just opening two Explorer windows and snapping one left, one right. :D

NEXT!!!
 
God that looks terrible/confusing.

It's not even about the lack of eye-candy anymore, that is just terrible design.

Don't fall for his BS. He deliberately altered the layout to make it look worse than it really does. I don't use it to view folders with photo thumbnails or music files. I use it purely for file management which is what it is designed for and does better than Explorer.
 
Don't fall for his BS. He deliberately altered the layout to make it look worse than it really does. I don't use it to view folders with photo thumbnails or music files. I use it purely for file management which is what it is designed for and does better than Explorer.

It does MORE than Explorer, not necessarily better. And as much as people talk about Windows inflexiability its real power is that you can pretty much always find an application that will suit your needs, often free.

But for 99% of the file system operations that people perform, Explorer is more than adeqaute. The biggest problem with Explorer in Vista for me have been the problems with the different views. From my understanding, Microsoft rewrote Explorer for Windows 7 and its much cleaner.

Explorer is not the ultimate file management tool, but it works fine 99% of the time.
 
As far as Im concerned XP is one of the worst designed OS's of all time. Explorer in XP has to be some sick demented joke Microsoft designers decided to pull on the public, that side bar was just.... omg those fucking idiots.

Sure its no Linux as far as shear eye bleeding suckness is concerned, but it still sucks REALLY bad.

I was so happy when Vista came out because XP's interface was driving me insane. Its just so damn pathetic and embarassing to know that a group of human beings designed that.

Looking at XP's interface in retrospect, it was pretty fucking terrible. It patronized users with it's default "Fischer Price" blue theme and Search Assistant. Worst of all was that the only theme that looked professional was that ugly Classic theme (I wanted "WaterColor/Professional", dammit).

Vista was the first Microsoft OS with an interface that looked, IMO, fantastic (the basic theme, not so much). Aero, translucent glass effects,3D, previews, photorealistic icons -- all was a major improvement. It was originally going to be even more of an eyesore than XP with "Plex". Thank God they dumped that visual style early on.
 
Having 2 panes is better.

I wouldn't disagree but especially in Windows 7 with Aero Snap as Joe Average mentioned earlier, its really no big deal doing the same thing in Windows Explorer plus you have access to Libraries, Homegroups, local and federated search which you don't have FreeCommander, at least not yet.

Once again, Windows Explorer in Windows 7 particularly will the the job 99% no if ands or buts.
 
Don't fall for his BS. He deliberately altered the layout to make it look worse than it really does. I don't use it to view folders with photo thumbnails or music files. I use it purely for file management which is what it is designed for and does better than Explorer.
Those are the stock screenshots shown on their site. Nice try.
Having 2 panes is better.
Why? Why is 2 panes better than 2 windows? At least 2 windows I can put wherever I want them rather than having them next to each other, forced to be the same height, etc.
 
Those are the stock screenshots shown on their site. Nice try.Why? Why is 2 panes better than 2 windows? At least 2 windows I can put wherever I want them rather than having them next to each other, forced to be the same height, etc.

These are indeed the shots on FC's site which actually probably aren't the best in the world. Oh well. But these are not the views out of the box.

The 2 panes deal is really a non-issue since its Explorer does the same thing with multiple windows, just a matter of personal preference, no functionality is gained.
 
I wouldn't disagree but especially in Windows 7 with Aero Snap as Joe Average mentioned earlier, its really no big deal doing the same thing in Windows Explorer plus you have access to Libraries, Homegroups, local and federated search which you don't have FreeCommander, at least not yet.

Once again, Windows Explorer in Windows 7 particularly will the the job 99% no if ands or buts.

I don't even know what Aero Snap is. I'll go look it up.
 
Those are the stock screenshots shown on their site. Nice try.Why? Why is 2 panes better than 2 windows? At least 2 windows I can put wherever I want them rather than having them next to each other, forced to be the same height, etc.

Here's how it looks on my PC. 2 panes opening with one click is a lot quicker than having to open 2 Explorer windows. All the drives are accessible right there at the top below the menu bar and I don't have to go clicking around to access various HDDs/DVD drives etc.

freec.jpg


I expect next you are going to reply to my assigning permanent drive letter to an external HDD and try and tell me that it was good that Microsoft removed the option. :rolleyes:
 
Here's how it looks on my PC. 2 panes opening with one click is a lot quicker than having to open 2 Explorer windows. All the drives are accessible right there at the top below the menu bar and I don't have to go clicking around to access various HDDs/DVD drives etc.

Opening 2 explorer Windows isn't a big deal, and you have a favorites bar for whatever drives/folders you want in Vista/7. Aero snap makes it, well, a snap to position two windows side by side in 7.

Like I said, whatever works for you.
 
Oh, and it is set to permanently always open the downloads folder so I don't have to do any navigating to find a file when I download it. Lets see you do that with Explorer.

I still haven't looked up this "snap" thing so didn't know there was such an option. I do now, thanks.
 
With Windows 7 Libraries all of your important directories are in the navigation pane, one click away, in fact since a library can point to multiple locations, you could see ALL of your download folders across your entire network in one spot. Plus if you actually were looking for something all you have to do is type on the name and search for it and if the remote folders in the Libraries are setup for Windows search, those locations get search as well. Very nice and simple.

File navigation and finding stuff is just elegant in Windows 7, really a first for Windows which is sad that it took so long to finally get it right but I think 7 has hit it out of the park this time. And the RSS searches are very cool.
 
/me watches the beating of the dead horse with a tacit and decidedly stoic expression on his mug...
 
In Vista, Explorer (not IE) is a total failure from a usability standpoint. How it went through QA/QC and no one saying "Wait a minute, what the heck are we doing here?!?" is beyond me. The "auto horizontal scrolling" that happens when you drill down the folder structure is simply ..., I can't even find a good word to describe the grief it's causing.

Ever since I had to let go of the old NC way back when I have been using WindowsCommander, later renamed to TotalCommander.

People complaining about the UI simply don't like change. Use it for a while and you'll find it's great. [...] And everything can be customized to quickly access the things you use regularly. It's highly customizable. And I find it intuitive.

I beg to differ. I like change just fine, if it's for the better.
Office 2007 Excel saving a simple spreadsheet as a 27MB file (.xlsx) when the very same spreadsheet saved as Office 2003 file is only 4.5MB large is NOT for the better.

Office 2007 Word creating a 54MB (.docx) out of a 124MB Word 2003 document may seem like a good thing, except when a 4GB 3Ghz machine completely locks up for q few minutes while loading the file, even though the file loads just fine on Office 2003 is NOT for the better. These are consistently reproducible problems with Office 2007 and large DOC files. MS support's take on this: create smaller files with fewer embedded graphics and tables, or work in Office 2007 using Office 2003 format.

Maybe I need to take a class in Office 2007 customization, but I shouldn't have to do that if all I want is move the AutoSum button in Excel 2007 all the way to the left of the Home tab rather than have it all the way on the right. I want that button to be where it is in the Formulas tab, except I want that location in the Home tab. From where I am looking, considering it's 2009 and not 1980, that should just be a matter of me dragging it were I want it and dropping it there.

I like change, but not when it's screwing me over.
 
This is a guide to the things that you can do out of the box with changing the Ribbon: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word/HA102277541033.aspx

Being able to radically alter the layout of the ribbons would be a bad idea. Think of the support headaches this would cause. But I do understand that people who are customization junkie would have a problem.

Personally I love the ribbon because like 95% of Office users I don't remember this stuff. For the non-keystroke expert type the ribbon is a much better way than a bazillion menus though I guess the option of putting the menu's back would be good though you can do this with a third party solution I believe.

I work with a lot of Office documents, Word, Excel and PowerPoint. I've never seen a 2007 document end up larger than a 2003 document. 2007 documents are usually much smaller because they are zip files. When you rename an Office 2007 x document to *.zip you can open it up and see the content. It's all XML.
 
All this over a GUI... but hey, if you can do it better...<hint, hint> ;)

Imagine if the whole world worked like that. Have any criticism about your car? Suck it up, or build your own! Don't like the food you just ordered? Suck it up or make it yourself. Don't like the lights in your house? Suck it up or build your own! :rolleyes: Strangely enough people do build their own - it's called Linux. Microsoft could learn a lot from their GUI implementations.

The overall cohesiveness and intuitiveness of the Win7 UI is much better than Vista, but still has a ways to go. The circular (non branching) system menus drive me crazy too.
 
Uhmmm... you can drag the Downloads "folder" directly to the Favorites section in Explorer and wham, instant shortcut to Downloads that's always there at the top, even rearrange the order if you like. Was one of the first things I simply had to do with Vista on the rare occasions that I've used it... dump everything in that Favorites section and replace 'em with the proper shortcuts I use the most. ;)

Thanks! I learned something new today. :)
 
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