Do there exist any low input lag, 1440p IPS monitors?

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Cyalume

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Assuming that they are not of the cheap, Korean variety (can't stand PWM, can't have bright lights to counter PWM, no room for them in dorm room).


Does such a monitor exist? I own a VP2770 currently, but the input lag is a little high (compared to the plasma sitting beside me that I use occasionally [plasma isnt mine]). I'm just curious to know if there are any 2560x1440 monitors on the market right now with exactly one frame or less (<16ms) of input lag, like so many 1080p monitors out there right now.

I'd rather have 60hz, 1440p, low-to-no input lag than 120hz. Thoughts?
 
HP ZR30w has pretty low input lag compared to other IPS panels IIRC. It is 2560x1600 though.
 
All of the single input options can be considered delay free, and single input monitors like the glossy Overlord X27OC, Yamakasi Catleap Q270 and matte Qnix QX2710/X-Star DP2710 can also overclock. Information and Review Links can be found here. Read this similar thread with questions about the overclock-able monitors.

Doubt a VP2770 owner will put up with the ZR30W's grainy matte coating, slower pixel response times, inaccurate+over-saturated wide gamut colors and more pronounced IPS glow.
 
NCX said:
All of the single input options can be considered delay free
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As I understand it, input lag includes the time taken for the pixels to respond. Not sure how a single input option would eliminate this link in the chain.
 
Plasma tvs have terrible input lag it's impossible that your VP2770 has it noticeably higher.

Are you sure you aren't confusing it with motion quality ?
 
spacediver said:
As I understand it, input lag includes the time taken for the pixels to respond. Not sure how a single input option would eliminate this link in the chain.
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The processing delay usually outweighs the pixel response time by a fair margin, so, even without overdrive, single-inputs typically come out ahead.
 
spacediver said:
As I understand it, input lag includes the time taken for the pixels to respond. Not sure how a single input option would eliminate this link in the chain.
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If this were true then some of the VA monitors with 25-50ms pixel response (20ms+ average) times (C-PVA and 1st gen LED back-lit A-MVA) would have very noticeable input lag, but they do not. Tests (SMT Tool, ToastyX's Test, oscilloscope) and subjective evaluations all agree.
 
BearOso said:
The processing delay usually outweighs the pixel response time by a fair margin, so, even without overdrive, single-inputs typically come out ahead.
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not denying that, but I understood NCX's post as claiming that single input configurations have no input lag. Maybe I misinterpreted, and the claim was that single input configurations don't add input lag. But the original poster was looking for IPS systems with very low input lag. Experienced gamers are able to notice an input lag on the order of 10-16 ms and possibly less, which is one of the issues with the Eizo Foris, for example.

Here is a very interesting thread where you can experience the effects of input lag yourself.
 
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spacediver said:
but if they have 25-50 ms response, isn't that by definition input lag?
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No, those are the pixel response times. Camera tests (SMT Tool) measure <5ms and PRAD's oscilloscope signal delay measurement=<3ms for the 1080p VA panels.
 
I assume that when ppl ask about input lag, they are referring to the entire chan, including display lag.

What good is a <3 ms signal delay if it take 20 -50 ms for the pixels to respond? (unless I'm missing something here, I'm not very well brushed up on this stuff).
 
spacediver said:
I assume that when ppl ask about input lag, they are referring to the entire chan, including display lag.

What good is a <3 ms signal delay if it take 20 -50 ms for the pixels to respond? (unless I'm missing something here, I'm not very well brushed up on this stuff).
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You are assuming that ghosting (slow pixel response times) increases input lag...it doesn't. If this were the case then the slow panels would feel laggy and yield high measurements when tested with the SMT Tool which does not measure the signal delay directly.
 
When I think of input lag, I think of, for example, the time between a mouse movement and seeing the cursor move on the screen. Doesn't this time include the time it takes for a pixel to onset?
 
spacediver said:
When I think of input lag, I think of, for example, the time between a mouse movement and seeing the cursor move on the screen. Doesn't this time include the time it takes for a pixel to onset?
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The panel can be updated instantly (low signal delay), but have long trails/smears/streaks behind moving objects (slow pixel response times). Think of a CRT which suffers from obvious phosphor trailing when moving the mouse.
 
ok I think I get it now. So the time to pixel onset is not part of the pixel response time. Pixel response time is min to max to min luminance.
 
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Michaelius said:
Plasma tvs have terrible input lag it's impossible that your VP2770 has it noticeably higher.
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Some Panasonic plasmas were well known for having very low input lag. Got one of those babies and it's rather good to game on.

Input lag consists of several factors:
  • Controller lag (usually minimal)
  • Processing lag (from PC and/or from display)
  • Display response time lag

Even if a display has low processing lag (let's say 1 frame), if it has poor response time that will manifest as blurry image even though it responds to your controls in what you may perceive as immediate response.

Right now the only display on the market that has pretty much no lag or blurryness is the ASUS ROG Swift PG278Q and it's not IPS. I don't think we will see IPS displays with super low OVERALL lag unless there is a breakthrough in technology.

If you want to stick with IPS and 1440p+ then you should look into displays that don't have a built-in scaler. You lose the ability to have good image quality at 1080p (at least my previous Dell's own scaler had far superior image quality to Nvidia's GPU scaling) but gain low input lag (usually around 1 frame).

If I were you I'd wait for the upcoming 1440p 144Hz panel displays to come to market and see if those fit your requirements. 120Hz or more does make a marked difference in smoothness.
 
kasakka said:
Some Panasonic plasmas were well known for having very low input lag.
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None ever proved to be sub-1-frame though, most probable reason being the sub-field drive (600Hz) taking a full frame from start to finish.

kasakka said:
Even if a display has low processing lag (let's say 1 frame), if it has poor response time that will manifest as blurry image even though it responds to your controls in what you may perceive as immediate response.
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Right but the role of response time is minor in the total lag, don't exaggerate it's importance or mix perceived motion blur and lag together.

kasakka said:
Right now the only display on the market that has pretty much no lag or blurryness is the ASUS ROG Swift PG278Q and it's not IPS. I don't think we will see IPS displays with super low OVERALL lag unless there is a breakthrough in technology.
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Again you're exaggerating, the ROG Swift's around 4ms alright, but take the Dell P2414H/U2414H for instance; both are just as or almost as fast as the ROG, they're 60Hz and therefore motion blur is very visible okay, but that doesn't mean they've got more lag.
There are several IPS (and even AMVA+) monitors with very low input lag today, easily under 1 frame total, many 1080p models in particular, then the single-input Koreans.

kasakka said:
If you want to stick with IPS and 1440p+ then you should look into displays that don't have a built-in scaler. You lose the ability to have good image quality at 1080p (at least my previous Dell's own scaler had far superior image quality to Nvidia's GPU scaling) but gain low input lag (usually around 1 frame).
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According to NCX's reviews one like the Qnix is closer to 0ms than 16ms.
1 frame is rather what you'll find on the multi-input 1440p today (most are around 20ms) and it's not considered 'low' by today's standards.
 
The oldschool CCFL WQXGA 30" IPS panels were good but have matte coating. Some people complain about screen door but it never really bothered me. They are PWM free as they are CCFL :)

Dell 3007WFP or WFP-HC were great monitors though about 5-6 years old.

The EIZO 24" EV2436W that we are testing at work is claimed to be PWM free so you may have luck looking at their monitors.
Perhaps the EIZO 27" EV2736W:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/content/eizo_ev2736w.htm#lag
 
After reading through NCX's links, I'm considering a downgrade from the VP2770 to the Dell u2414h. My reasoning is largely due to the nonexistant input lag (according to TFTCentral, claimed by the link below):

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2414h.htm


@NCX: What do I stand to lose in terms of black depth, color quality, and motion clarity, in your opinion?
 
Cyalume said:
@NCX: What do I stand to lose in terms of black depth, color quality, and motion clarity, in your opinion?
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Everything but motion clarity and possibly lag (PRAD measured 7.2ms signal delay for the VP2770). Reduce control and mouse sensivity and you won't have a problem. That's what I did to get used to my S27A850 when I started gaming on it instead of my VG236H (120hz glossy TN) back in 2011.

The Eizo EV2336W uses a semi-glossy PLS panel like the VP2770 and can cover 96% of the sRGB colour space while the frame-less 1080p 21.5-27" AH-IPS can only cover 87-90% (FS2434) which makes colours look less vibrant+accurate colours, and the matte, 1080p AH-IPS panels coating is significantly grainier. The frame-less monitors also have an inner black bezel which ruins the perceived black depth.

[H]ard Forum EV2336W thread.

Eizo's new FS2434 uses a frame-less IPS panel too and is also worse than the EV2336W, just like the last Foris FS2333 (it uses PWM and overshoots more than the EV2336W). I don't understand why Eizo markets the EV2336W as an office monitor. They should have added 2x HDMI inputs and sold it as their only 23-24" gaming monitor.
 
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For the EV2336W, it mentions PWM utilization below a certain brightness threshold (20%). Does this mean that PWM is completely off above 20%? Is direct-current backlight control used for brightness levels 21%-100%?
 
my Dell U3014 is a significant improvement over the U3011, which was a popular IPS monitor even amongst the gaming crowd. 1600 P though.
 
SuperSubZero said:
I have a ZR2740w. 27", IPS, 1440p, and considered to be "low input lag."

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hp_zr2740w_v2.htm

They are dated, but still show up for sale at places. http://www.amazon.com/HP-ZR2740w-27-inch-Backlit-Monitor/dp/B005MR4P0W
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I forget what it was about this line of monitors (I have the ZR30w). But I've read they have very low input lag compared to other IPS panels. I think it was due to there not being a scalar. With mine, you have to drive native resolution or you'll get signal OOR.

I rather like the image quality on mine, but I'm no connoisseur.
 
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It does have a built-in scaler since it stretches lower resolutions to full screen, but it must be a very simple one from before 1440p became 'mainstream'.

The thing is current 1440p monitors seem to all use the same slow-ass multi-input digital+analogue interface with slow-ass algorithm, probably using a full 1 frame buffer, which ruins our hopes for a fast AND versatile 1440p monitor.

Probably a lazy cost-saving measure adopted by the entire industry.
I wouldn't be surprised to learn there's a single manufacturer for those shitty built-in scalers, or just a single patented design used by a number of cheap Chinese subcontractors.
Unless a monitor manufacturer specifically pays attention to this and orders/designs a better scaler, there's no hope for better and faster scaling on mainstream 1440p monitors in the future.

There's hope for 4K though, since for instance DVDO (Anchor Bay Technologies) recently released the iScan Mini, a cheap no-frills external scaler offering clean and lightning-fast scaling to 4K.
You can bet AV-specialized brands and displays subcontractors will focus more on this in the future than they would ever on pc-exclusive 1440p displays.
 
My VP2770 is pretty much perfect aside from input lag. If I could make my VP2770 delay free, I would probably stick with it until 120hz delay-free PLS monitors hit the scene (however many thousands of years that takes). I just can't go back to TN. I've been using those for over a decade, and the difference in image quality over those is absolutely absurd.

Has anyone ever successfully disabled the scaling features of a monitor via firmware/etc? I don't use gaming consoles, I only need one input anyway. Same for PWM dimming; I've read somewhere that there's a dedicated driver circuit for controlling the backlight.

Qnix would be perfect for me if it didn't use PWM. I'm severely sensitive to it, I cant use the monitor for more than 30 mins to an hour at a time.
 
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