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Do Nvidia and Ati just not get it?

I

IceWindus

n00b
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Messages
10
Ok, perplexed beyond belief with these two companies. With the advent of not only the new graphics card but the past generations before them, we have speeds, transistor counts and die sizes increasing dramatically and with that, the heat from these cards is rising just as fast, as we are all quiet aware.

My question then is, what happend to the idea of actually venting this hot air OUT of our cases rather then this leaf blower idea and blasting it back into our cases in the oppostite direction of our intake fans???

Now any of you that know even a little bit about the thermal balance and airflow that we strive to achieve in our cases, this is just getting old. In the idealistic case, we want to remove the heated air from out components and quickly as possible and replace it with fresh clean air via our intake fans.

What we have with the typical HSF fan of todays video cards is this nice, stagnat hot air tornado as our video card simply just churn the air over and over making the chip run hotter.

before1.jpg


With the advent of the recent 5950 and 9800XT, we have a HSF unit that sucks air below it and then blasts it into the intake fans airflow path. Great, so what we got is a nice little tropical storm in the bottom of our cases, reducing our aiflow efficency and increasing our case tempatures overall and the poor hot video card gets to use this nice warm recycled air to try to cool itself over and over. Nice idea.
nv40.jpg



Here's something, TAKE A HINT FROM THE VGA SILENCER ATI and NVIDIA!!! We have the ideal solution here. We have the fan placed near the end of the card the sucks the air that the intake fans are continually supplying with cool air. The fan then blows this air across a sealed tunnel with the cooling fins on the heatsink. This warmed air is then DIRECTLY vented OUTSIDE THE case, not only making the video card run cooler, but it also reduces the amount of stagnat hot air in our cases.
superexhaust.jpg


The only real drawback of this, is that we loose a PCI slot from the size of the cooler itself. This also somewhat hapers SFF owners ability to use the newests card but you know what guys, you knew that buying that small of case, there WAS gonna be tradeoffs as a result. Granted, your lucky that third party developers make single slot solutions or you'd be really SOL.

With the advent of so many mobo's having built in ethernet, high end soundchips, and even some with opticalout, RAID for ATA and SATA drives, the need for PCI expansion cards is less and less. Witth this, their is less reason to cry about loosing a PCI slot in our cases as a result of a dual slot video card cooler.

So lets get with the program Ati and Nvidia and make coolers that make logical sense here. If nothing else, I hope to god VGA makes new coolers for the new cards coming out.
 
Gainward has been making water blocks for their high end FX line for a while now. That's the best I've seen.

I don't think we should be mad at ATI or NVidia, but the board partners. In most cases, it's the partners that actually assemble the chips onto the PCB, and they get the final say as to what cooling solution will be used.

I totally agree, however. I have a 9700 Pro at stock speeds with the side panel off of my case, and it still overheats when I play UT04. You'd think it's make more sense if they put the core on the TOP side of the card. That way the exhaust fans could at least get some of the hot air off of the core.
 
Originally posted by Jimmers
Gainward has been making water blocks for their high end FX line for a while now. That's the best I've seen.

I don't think we should be mad at ATI or NVidia, but the board partners. In most cases, it's the partners that actually assemble the chips onto the PCB, and they get the final say as to what cooling solution will be used.

I totally agree, however. I have a 9700 Pro at stock speeds with the side panel off of my case, and it still overheats when I play UT04. You'd think it's make more sense if they put the core on the TOP side of the card. That way the exhaust fans could at least get some of the hot air off of the core.
Click to expand...

Or use some sort of heatpipe design to tranfer it there. But yes ultimately it's up to the board partners to use some sort of spiffy cooling solution. Funny thing is is that from the previews the 6800U actually runs cooler then the 5950U so I'm sure that SFF users won't have to bitch so much about it. :p
Personally I don't think most companies pay enough attention to cooling, and no I don't think that BTX will help much.

I'm interested to see what kind of cooler ATI will use as well as BFG, Gainward, and MSI. Maybe we'll get an Arctic Cooler for next gen cards soon. :D
 
Totally agree, to most vid card manufacturers the cooling is just a basic afterthought, usually some bog standard fan spinning about 2000rpm which would probably be lucky blowing out a match nevermind cooling down the heatsink and gpu core its mounted onto.

You would think by now some kind of thought would go into the design in terms of airflow but judging from the latest crop of cards that thinking just isn't there at all. The nv-40 hsf design now that i look at it is pretty dumb, basically letting the warm air circulate around a given area of the case.

I just installed one of those vga silencers today and its dropped my system temps to 36c from around 43+. Couldn't be happier with it, just wish companies producing these gfx boards would take some of what you said into consideration.
 
They might figure this out before the cards actual release date. We can only hope.
 
Originally posted by SnakEyez187
Don't those cards cost in the range of 700-1000 bucks?
Click to expand...

To be honest, I've never seen one for sale. They've been on the Gainward site for a while, and one of them was at CeBit 2004, but other than that I have no idea.

Maybe Gainward's feeling left out of the "Paper Launch Club".
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but....didn't some of the FX card makers have a setup similar to what you described? I swear I saw a review with a hsf unit that vented out of the case.:confused:
 
the original fx 5800 ultra exausted outside the case, and nvidia got slammed for the noise it caused and the space it took up. Also AFAIK, gainward is only selling their coolfx products in the european market ATM, hopefully we will be able to get them in the states eventually though.
 
Sapphire shipped their "Ultimate Edition" versions of the 9600XT and the 9800 Pro with the Zalman heatpipe coolers presintalled.

HISTech sells a 9800Pro with the VGA silencer pre-installed.

If your 9700PRo is overheating at stock speeds in games with the side of your case open you should investigate the thermal contact point between the heatsink and the core. Your shim is probably slightly too thick, meaning the core is not directly contacting it enough.
 
But the Sapphire Ultimate Editions radiates heat into the case and not outside, mostly for silence.
 
Could it also be that with the blower reversed it would be sucking already hot air from inside the case to try and cool an a hot gpu?

If you have a good moving airstream inside your case bringing cold air in and hot air out, adding the flow from the video card directly into it seems like a pretty efficient idea and lowers the sound output.

Of course not every case is the same so YMMV.
 
Could it also be that with the blower reversed it would be sucking already hot air from inside the case to try and cool an a hot gpu?
Click to expand...

Not if you have proper intake, either by the front of the case or with a side panel fan. Either way, your giving fresh air for the video card to scoop up, blow through the sealed heatsink fins and blasting it out the back, greatly reducing the amount of dirty air from your video card.

Let me tell you, when I feel the back of my VGA silencer venting, I cannot believe how warm that air coming out is that would other wise be circulating through my case
 
Nvidia already did this and got flamed to hell. It perplexes me how you could take the time out to gather up photos and write so much, yet not already know about Nvidia's attempt at this.
 
This is NOT a nVidia or Ati problem. It's the broke ass ATX case design/airflow. Maybe this worked back in the day with pentium 2's and voodoos, but today it's just broke. Most of us have 2 or 3 hard drives and all the wires that go with them, 2+ pci cards, and a very hot graphics card. Add to this some of the hottest CPU's of all time (P4 especially). The ATX spec say we should blow air from the front of the case, over the hdd, over the memory, graphics card, and suck it diagonally out the back over the CPU... Unless you have 2 80mm Tornados, this ain't working.


A solution i've found is having a 120mm fan on the side of the case and one on top. My case stays cool at around 25-33c.
 
Actually the design of the 5800 was in the right direction, blow the air out of the case. The problem was the fan used was way to loud . Now they may say it was because the GPU generated to much heat and the fan needed to be loud. Not so , they haven't figured out that by using a bigger fan it wouldn't have to turn as fast to achieve the same cfm's as a small one.
 
I have a slot fan in all my computers and it doesn't make much noise. Yes, it takes up a PCI slot, but blows the air out the back of the case. Just buy your own slot fan and be done with it.
 
Originally posted by NoGodForMe
I have a slot fan in all my computers and it doesn't make much noise. Yes, it takes up a PCI slot, but blows the air out the back of the case. Just buy your own slot fan and be done with it.
Click to expand...

if you put a slot fan under the video card, arnt you sucking cold air that should be going onto the video card and putting it out side the case?

if anything ill buy a vantec spectrum.
 
the real hot thing with the nv30 was the ddr2 ram at 1ghz, very hot, very power hungry.
 
Nvidia already did this and got flamed to hell. It perplexes me how you could take the time out to gather up photos and write so much, yet not already know about Nvidia's attempt at this
Click to expand...

Im well aware of Nvidias 5800 leaf blower. That model tried to do to many things at one time. It had many flaws, a few of which was its cooling system.

bfg-5800-ultra1.jpg


If you remember, the cooling system actually sucked air via the small vent to to the right, it then was wrapped around the blower and blown through the cooling fins and back out the exhaust vent Due to the cards extreme heat output, especially from the memory, this fan had to run at very high speeds to keep it thermally stable, which we all know, smaller fans that spin faster create more noise. Im not aware of the fan specs, but im willing to bet the blower fan itself was poorely designed both in terms of fin design, CFM/dba ratio, among other things.

Also look how little room that card has to pull air through that vent. If you ever had a filter covered in dust and noticed your intake fans are noiser, its because your sufficating the fans, they churn dead air, creating more turbulence and more noise.

Nvidia may have done this first, but they sure as hell didn't do it right.
 
theyre not made for OCing and in a NA case (little car reference there :D) its cool enough to be 100% stable
 
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