Do Not Buy A New Computer!!!

Status
Not open for further replies.
I

IQJUMPuw

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 19, 2002
Messages
502
Someone on Craigslist posted this in "For Sale" section and it sounded pretty interesting. I wanted to know if what he's saying is true or not. What do you guys think?


Reply to: sale-147547865@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-04-02, 2:14PM PDT

As you may have heard Microsoft is coming out with a new Windows at the end of this year. Microsoft is implementing DX10 in Windows Vista. For those of you that don't know what DX (Direct X) is, it is a needed application to run 3d software. Direct3D is a special interface designed by Microsoft that allows developers to abstract 3D graphics programming from the underlying hardware. First introduced with Windows 95 11 years ago, Direct3D and its parent API, DirectX, have been a mainstay in the 3D games development industry.

Currently DX 9.0c is available. All current graphics cards are made to run on DX 9 only. Nvidia and ATI will have to make a new GPU to run DX 10. What this means to you is if you buy a new computer or a new graphics card in hopes to run all your new games and Windows Vista flawlessly you will be disappointed. It will not take full advantage on what DX 10 and Windows Vista has to offer. In fact your computer might even be sluggish even with the most powerfull computer.

Vista and DirectX 10 aren't all doom and gloom for the games industry, they will in fact do much for both the performance and versatility of graphics hardware. For instance, graphics processors, known as GPUs, will have scheduling and sharing capabilities under Vista, much like CPUs have now. Users will be able to run multiple 3D applications that will be able to share memory, GPU cycles and other resources, something that is currently impossible under previous Windows versions.

the new, shared architecture in the APIs, it will be possible to install new drivers without rebooting; perform 'video card-only' reboots and isolate the display driver from the rest of the system. With Vista, it will be almost impossible for the display driver to bring the rest of the system down with it -- something that is a serious problem and common occurence in current versions of Windows. This reliability and stability is also thanks to the Vista Display Driver Model (VDDM), which will eventually replace the current display driver model in Windows XP.

Direct3D 10 means quite a lot to both developers and gamers. In his PDC presentation, Balaz explained some of the internals of the new API, which departs significantly enough from DirectX 9 that all future versions of the programming interface will be based on D3D 10.

And D3D 10 does have some interesting changes. While the D3D 10 rendering pipeline is similar to D3D 9, it introduces a new shader, known as the Geometry Shader. This shader allows developers to perform functions on whole polygons (and series of polygons), instead just pixels or just verticies. This new shader promises to dramatically increase the performance of many 3D functions such as cube-mapping.

Another part of the Geometry Shader is the Stream Out functionality that allows the GPU to recycle graphics data without needing the CPU. Not only is this a boon to performance, it will also allow for particle systems completely independant of the CPU.

The presentation, in all its completeness, failed to touch on the implementation of OpenGL in Windows Vista. When questioned, Balaz explained that OpenGL would be in Vista in three forms: straight software, 'wrapped' around Direct3D and finally run through an installable client driver.

D3D 10 will require VDDM to work, so we won't be seeing it before Vista. D3D 10 has been developed in collaboration with Independent Hardware Vendors (IHVs) such as NVIDIA and ATI, but obviously only to a degree seeing as feature sets from these vendors will now be locked to (what will apparently be yearly) DirectX versioning. Balaz admitted that this course of feature introduction would require Microsoft to work more closely with IHVs and would result in faster revisions and releases of DirectX.

Although gamers will have to wait until next year, developers will get their first taste of D3D 10 in Beta 2 of Windows Vista.

Last but not least, Windows Vista has a all new design. In all current versions of Windows it's desktop, folders, everything is in a 2d design. Windows Vista however is an all new 3d design. What this means is your graphics card and processor will always be running in 3d mode. Without the new DX 10 support in the GPU your system might always act like it's running a game. Taking forever to launch applications, like if you now were to minimize a game and try to open your favorite browser or photo editing software. The lag time is almost unbearable. Like I stated above the DX 10 GPU's will have sharing and scheduling capabilities. This will take the load off your CPU under the new Vista 3d design and you will be able to run like a normal computer.

By this time next year most likely all GPU's and other hardware will only be made for Vista. Windows XP and all DX 9 hardware will be obsolete. You will not be able to play games or even your favorite software because it will all be encoded for Vista and DX 10.

So I repeat do not buy a new computer. It will be a waste of money. Your brand new $2000 gaming pc will become that piece of junk in your closet that you upgraded from. Just hang on for a little longer until Vista comes out and GPU companies start making cards for it. Then you can upgrade.
Click to expand...
 
..If you upgrade to vista with your new PC, and DONT upgrade the graphics card from its older DX9. And thats for the 3d all eye candy mode, not classic.

All you need to do is get a new DX10 card once they ship vista, whoopty do its not like they are changing to another interface to replace PCI-E 16x.. As long as OEMs start making their computers upgradable (PSU that can handle new vid card and a PCI-E slot), then we are ok. Anyways, its not like some family guy who bought a new HP for the family to email etc on the web is going to stripdown the computer and install vista anyways. For the enthusiests who might do that, they have the ability to upgrade to a new graphics card b/c they how a highend mobo/psu that will handle the upgrade. So this dosent really apply to anyone. Technology is always changing, and unless your rich and dumb about technology (Meaning the average family person that just buys an HP not caring about specs etc), then youll not have THE latest thing all the time and wont worry about vista until you buy a new PC.

This is all held on if this guy is right also.
 
So I could either not play Oblivion at decent settings for a year or just buy a new GPU next year (if I even need too, because I doubt I'll turn on that "fancy 3D crap in Vista...).

Seriously, is it really that bad to spend another $300 next year on a GPU to keep up with the latest trends...
 
Too bad the requirement for running the 3d desktop in Vista is a DirectX 9 card.
 
DirectX 9 will work under Vista. The version that will be released for it will be called DirectX 9.0L

But seriously Vista is coming out 1st Q of 2007 which is still about 9-10 monthes away and most games that will come out in 2007 probaly won't even use DX10 and even if they do they will most likely have DX9 versions also.

So I repeat do not buy a new computer. It will be a waste of money. Your brand new $2000 gaming pc will become that piece of junk in your closet that you upgraded from. Just hang on for a little longer until Vista comes out and GPU companies start making cards for it. Then you can upgrade.
Click to expand...

Oh yes of course, clearly the entire computer will be useless when Vista and DX10 come out . . . :D ;)
 
I'll probably still end up waiting for something after the 8800..
 
Quote - "Your brand new $2000 gaming pc will become that piece of junk in your closet that you upgraded from"

I hate hyperbolic cack like that. So everyone with a DX8 card couldn't play Half-Life 2? Or even people with DX7 cards for that matter.

Sadly, Vista's delay just means that we'll have to put up with the panic-stricken garbage for longer.
 
The presentation, in all its completeness, failed to touch on the implementation of OpenGL in Windows Vista. When questioned, Balaz explained that OpenGL would be in Vista in three forms: straight software, 'wrapped' around Direct3D and finally run through an installable client driver.
Click to expand...

The proper OpenGL drivers have always come from Nvida and ATI themselves, not Microsoft. There's no reason for there to be any problems with OGL in Vista.

By this time next year most likely all GPU's and other hardware will only be made for Vista. Windows XP and all DX 9 hardware will be obsolete. You will not be able to play games or even your favorite software because it will all be encoded for Vista and DX 10.

So I repeat do not buy a new computer. It will be a waste of money. Your brand new $2000 gaming pc will become that piece of junk in your closet that you upgraded from. Just hang on for a little longer until Vista comes out and GPU companies start making cards for it. Then you can upgrade.
Click to expand...

This is just FUD. It will be a very long time before developers drop support for DX9. Vista and DX10 is still a year away. It will be even longer before a significant number of people actually upgrade to either Vista and/or a DX10 card. Furthermore, there's nothing stopping you from using a DX10 card with Windows XP (under DX9), or a DX9 card in Vista (under DX9.L) in the interim. DX9.L is what the Aero Glass GUI will run on, by the way.

I estimate it will take 18 months - 2 years until we start seeing games that really take full advantage of DX10 features and blow away what was possible under DX9. So should you hold off that long before upgrading? Hell no. It's not as if you'll need a whole new computer, you'll still be able to use the same mobo, cpu, ram etc.
 
screw it, im buying my 2k rig (literally) right now with a 7900gt, s939 and ill just get a new gfx using evga's step up program (if the right timing)...
 
I dont agree with your system being a piece of junk when vista comes out but I do agree with the waiting part. So if you wait about 6 to 8 months (Forget about Vista for the moment) You should be able to pick up the new Intel (Conroe) CPU and a DX10 card, Which will last you for a good 2 years after that. Believe me Im on the fence to buy now as well but just a little longer and a lot of new tech will be coming out. And I know you can say this all the time but thats not totally true as things in the PC world have been stuck in DX9 and old CPU stuff for a good 4 years now.
 
jcll2002 said:
the thing is, ive been waiting so long already.
Click to expand...

If you are that far behind the curve you might just go ahead and upgrade, Im still not that bad off with an A64 3400+ and an X800pro. I can play most all games decent with this card, Now if your much lower and cant wait any longer I would go ahead an upgrade. Im more suggesting if your system can handle the games that are out there right now it probably would be prudent to wait. I can say though that my system did not handle FEAR or COD2 well at all. But those are about it at this point.
 
The API dev set for DX10 has been in place for about a year. Microsoft has been working with ATI and NVIDIA on the hardware component. So, I think you will likely find that the current gen cards will work just fine. You can't claim DX10 compatibility when it is not released yet. But, "Vista Ready" can be.
 
lol, that 2 thousand dollar comp will still beat whatever you guys got (assuming it's a self-built computer) when DX10 and Vista comes out. And anyway, by then, the person who spent 2k on that computer will probably ahve another 2k to kick it up a notch
 
Ok so you have a valid point there for us enthusiast gamers but what about the people who just want to get buy w/ medeocre stuff? Some people are happy w/ a geForce 7600 or hell even an x800xt and that may last them for a while and they prob wont upgrade to vista until xp becomes like 98 when XP came out. The point is, if you wanna run the latest and greatest and spend crazy amount of money then sure, spend. But there are some people who prefer an ok machine just to do what they gotta do and maybe play some games not at max res w/ all eye candy.






Oh btw, im not one of those medeocre people..im an enthusiast :p
 
i think the writer forgot to mention that one needs a DX10 card ONLY to play DX10 GAMES in vista...

we can still continue to enjoy our games once vista comes
 
if you want to upgrade to dx10, all you will need is vista, a dx10 card, the drivers, and a game right ;) ?
 
As already stated, I upgraded now and I will upgrade later. It's what I've been doing for 15 years and will continue to do. Building PC's is one of my many hobbies. :)

In fact, I Iove to upgrade. I take great joy in it and still get excited about that new peice of hardware, or that new OS.
 
Upgrading to Windows XP seems like just yesterday. Things come out so fast I tell ya!

Anyways, thanks for all the inputs guys. You guys are awesome! :)

Oh yeah, stop getting mad at me! I didn't write that thing. I just quoted someone from craigslist who was so determined to tell everyone to stop upgrading their computer. If you want, you can send him an email. ;)
 
Well, I don't care about dx10 that much, I'm only going to upgrade to new hardware when my system no longer suits my needs, as it is it plays Oblivion decently, and all my other games.
 
IQJUMPuw said:
Someone on Craigslist posted this in "For Sale" section and it sounded pretty interesting. I wanted to know if what he's saying is true or not. What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

I sold my two 7800 gt for 520 dollars, got x1900 xt for 400, does that mean I spend extra 400 or 2000 dollar on a new computer? no, do I still want to use my xpert 128 16mb video card no.... go rant some where else senseless fool..
 
Lots of propaganda, but in all honesty, I'll upgrade to Vista when it has been around for a couple months, I've done enough early adopting of Windows versions I don't feel the need to be early this time. I'm stashing $$ now for a big upgrade around next February/March and that will include Vista IF the gaming performance is what they are claiming. If not, I can hang with XP a little longer.
 
all i know is im not running to get dx10 gfx right away...only when a game comes out that i really want to oplay
 
jcll2002 said:
all i know is im not running to get dx10 gfx right away...only when a game comes out that i really want to oplay
Click to expand...

Pretty much my feeling, I'm not jumping on a first run DX10 card, I'll wait for the refresh. And I honestly think MS is over-estimating their power if they think they can get all PC gamers to buy new cards with a yearly DX refresh.
 
Regarding hardware drivers in Vista, most ppl aren't aware that you will only be able to obtain / install them via their update service, which for me is reason enough to stay away from it as long as I can.
 
ethos11 said:
Regarding hardware drivers in Vista, most ppl aren't aware that you will only be able to obtain / install them via their update service, which for me is reason enough to stay away from it as long as I can.
Click to expand...
ewwwww
 
zzzVideocardzzz said:
I sold my two 7800 gt for 520 dollars, got x1900 xt for 400, does that mean I spend extra 400 or 2000 dollar on a new computer? no, do I still want to use my xpert 128 16mb video card no.... go rant some where else senseless fool..
Click to expand...


That guy was at least trying to gain an understanding. What again were you trying to get across?
 
so a $300 video card with 256mb onboard 1.2ghz memory and a 500mhz, 20pipelined core isnt going to have enough umph to run fucking WINDOWS?

bullshit. utter bullshit.

i fully expect my computer to last into and possibly through 2007... and I only dished out $930 for it. in fact, the last part in it was purchased in november 2005.
 
ethos11 said:
Regarding hardware drivers in Vista, most ppl aren't aware that you will only be able to obtain / install them via their update service, which for me is reason enough to stay away from it as long as I can.
Click to expand...
care to back that up?
 
IQJUMPuw said:
Why is it dumb and why should it get locked? Care to elaborate?
Click to expand...

Well let's see....the requirement to run the 3D desktop in Vista is a DX9 card. So right off the bat the whole idea of scarring people into thinking they can't run Vista with a computer they could build today is false. Secondly, all they'd need is to drop in a DX10 card to play the newer DX10 games. So there is absolutely no reason why someone can't buy a new PC now that can run Vista and with a single upgrade can run DX10 games.

Did you honestly think MS is dumb enough to make a new OS that no one can run. Also how do you think so many people are already running the BETA versions of Vista right now?

This thread is useless and shouldn't have been posted in the video card section (or any section at all) in the first place.
 
My crystal ball says no vista till 2007.
 
In the future, let's not look to Craig's List as a credible source for info, mmmmkay? :p
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top