Do I really need antivirus programs running?

M

Magix

Weaksauce
Joined
Jul 27, 2012
Messages
109
Ok, here's the deal. I've been using computers for years now, and so I am fairly knowledgeable as to what places to avoid, etc. Generally I'm not going to find myself going through 90 ads, filling surveys to earn some imaginery money or gain access to some weird porn site.

I've been using antivirus programs off and on for that time, and I haven't really noticed a difference - for the past year or so, I haven't had any firewall/antivirus program on whatsoever, and I haven't noticed any problems.

Keyword "noticed" - doesn't mean there aren't any problems. So my question is, should I install an antivirus program? Does it really help for an average computer user like me? So far I've found it's more of a hassle than it's worth.

As for what I do in my computer - play games (csgo, lol, minecraft), surf forums, youtube, there's the occasional piratebay, etc.
 
Yes, AV's and Firewalls are a must. You're nuts not to run them, especially on modern machines that have more than enough resources to run said programs without slowing down the computer.

With malware becoming more and more common through everyday websites via malicious ads and other assets, you don't have to be hanging out at shady websites to get infected. You might not 'notice' any strange behavior on your computer, but it doesn't mean that a small lightweight keylogger isn't running in the background sending all your user names, passwords, etc to a server somewhere.

I have a friend that does the same crap (runs his machine without an AV or FW) that swore he didn't need them. One day he decided to try out an AV and found that his machine was riddled with viruses and other malware

To each his own... different strokes for different folks, but I would never put a machine on the internet without proper security in place (except for VM's or livecd's and crap)
 
My approach is why take the risk of not running AV, there are so many free AV programs out there that don't use a ton of resources that for me it just makes sense to run an AV since it will not impact my pc performance, and if anything does happen It should catch it.

Kinda like car insurance lol
 
The problem with seeing that my machine is "riddled with viruses" is that to me they're just a big red number on a screen. Computer performance isn't down, nothing's visually wrong, and I haven't been hacked over the course of the 10 or so years I've used my computer.
 
No..just don't surf torrents/pr0n or download stuff from strangers and you'll be fine
 
Magix said:
The problem with seeing that my machine is "riddled with viruses" is that to me they're just a big red number on a screen. Computer performance isn't down, nothing's visually wrong, and I haven't been hacked over the course of the 10 or so years I've used my computer.
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Do what you want. It's not my data/identity on the line :p If anything, it should make for an entertaining thread one day
 
Unless you are more dedicated to protect your computer than the thousands of people in Russia, China, and many other countries are dedicated to compromise your computer... get an AV program. Just get Microsoft Security Essentials, it's completely free from MS, and has very low overhead. I put it on everything I work on. Especially home customers that don't even notice or care the Norton or McAfee that came with their new PC had only a 60 day license. MS SE updates silently and just works. It may not be as comprehensive (or resource hungry) as the bigger ones, but a working MS SE is much better than an expired Norton.
 
Magix said:
The problem with seeing that my machine is "riddled with viruses" is that to me they're just a big red number on a screen. Computer performance isn't down, nothing's visually wrong, and I haven't been hacked over the course of the 10 or so years I've used my computer.
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How exactly do you know your computer hasn't been hacked or used as a bot?

I never, ever run a computer without an AV.

Even pages you "know" are safe, can have ad banners up that can give you malware.

Do you ever put any files on your computer that were ever in contact with any other computer? If so, then you should run an AV. So basically, not running an AV is just a really bad idea.

Get MSE (Microsoft Security Essentials). It is free, won't slow down your system, and does a pretty good job.

As for a firewall, if you don't have a router with a good built in firewall, at leats use the built in Windows firewall.

Absolutely no reason to not have security software on your computer.
 
cyclone3d said:
How exactly do you know your computer hasn't been hacked or used as a bot?

I never, ever run a computer without an AV.

Even pages you "know" are safe, can have ad banners up that can give you malware.

Do you ever put any files on your computer that were ever in contact with any other computer? If so, then you should run an AV. So basically, not running an AV is just a really bad idea.

Get MSE (Microsoft Security Essentials). It is free, won't slow down your system, and does a pretty good job.

As for a firewall, if you don't have a router with a good built in firewall, at leats use the built in Windows firewall.

Absolutely no reason to not have security software on your computer.
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Except it sucks up resources and is unnecessary :rolleyes:
Have a virus?WIpe your hdd and do a fresh install :D
 
Magix said:
there's the occasional piratebay, etc.
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If you're downloading stuff from the web especially PirateBay is it really worth the risk. What headaches are you really having with running an AV on your system. I see 0 hit to my gaming performance and its free. It's kinda like hiring a hot looking hooker in Vegas and not wearing a condom. "She's hot looking so she must be clean...." Just isn't worth the headaches later IMHO. Plus if you configure the AV Client correctly using exceptions when needed in rare cases you really shouldn't get any headaches from running an AV client.
 
You do not need an antivirus if you are very careful and have atleast some idea of how modern infection vectors work. This machine is XP and i've been on the same install since 2008 without an antivirus and haven't had issue. I use various tools to check every once in a while that nothing suspicious is going on (unauthorized registry entries, function hooking, weird dlls etc) and have past logs to compare to. Also, if there's local software I want to run that comes from a source I don't consider trusted but I want to test, I will simply virtualize it.

What you have to do is prevent malware from getting executed in the first place. The most common routes of infection from a malicious site to a system is through an exploit for Java, Quicktime, ActiveX, Adobe Acrobat and Flash. By simply not using IE, you remove the ActiveX route. I also don't even bother installing Java, Quicktime and Adobe Acrobat. I find Java and Quicktime to be almost completely worthless, and Acrobat/Reader is replaced with Foxit. So essentially 4 out of 5 of the main web based attack vectors to a system don't even exist on my PC. I don't have to bother keeping that garbage updated if it doesn't exist. The only thing left is Flash. This is where Firefox and NoScript come in. NoScript offers various numbers of 'barriers' itself and I'm a huge fan of its "everything is blacklisted, whitelist as needed" scripting philosophy. It really is the best addon ever created in my opinion.
So yeah:

Windows XP since 2008
No Antivirus
No malware/rootkit/virus
Amazing


This is just what I do with my personal system, I'm very minimalistic and like it to be as fast, clean, and responsive as possible. I've basically put up a giant fucking wall into my system. If something did get in, it will have free reign, I don't have it locked down at the local level, I like my freedom in that respect. I would notice quite quickly if something like that did happen though. I'm doing my best to keep stuff from coming in in the first place.

For almost everyone though I think an antivirus is a must. And for many people it's not even enough.
 
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I have security essentials on my machine, but I don't think I've ever seen it pop up with anything. Working in IT, I have a pretty good idea of how to avoid issues:
I don't use IE, I use adblockers and noscript.
I don't have java.
I keep windows & adobe up to date.
Anything I download that is questionable gets run in sandboxie.
My firewall (not the windows firewall, but pfsense) blocks known bad IPs with various blocklists from iblocklist.
I use opendns.
 
schmuckley said:
No..just don't surf torrents/pr0n or download stuff from strangers and you'll be fine
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you know, [H] had an issue with ads that delivered a Java virus some time back.
Other legitimate sites have had the same issue.

Therefore, your reasoning is asinine.
 
j-sta said:
you know, [H] had an issue with ads that delivered a Java virus some time back.
Other legitimate sites have had the same issue.

Therefore, your reasoning is asinine.
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I don't use IE or java :D
..forgot to mention that..yeah IE and java will get you viruses.
 
Anyone recommending not running proactive anti-malware on a system outside of a lab environment is a very poor choice- heres why:
1. Best Practice- people far smarter than you or I have agreed this is a good thing to do.
2. It's good citizenship- rake your own leaves, clean up your own mess, keep stuff from spreading using your computer.
3. Unless your name starts with 'Mark' and ends with 'Russinovich', you don't know windows well enough to say whether it is infected except by using an anti-malware scanner.
4. Security is about layers- Don't run as root/admin, Aplly security updates in a timely manner, update Reader, Flash, and Java, and run ONE anti-malware engine.
5. XP is very near end-of-life and does not have the security of Vista, much less Windows 7. You do not get any cred for running a 13-year old operating system. If you were interested in running a secure system, you would switch to Vista or Win 7 and run XP mode for apps requiring XP.
6. Active X exploits are soooooooo 2007. Get with the program. I'm not aware of a single plug-in framework that has not been exploited. IE9 is quite secure and has best-in-class protections (which are centrally manageable) which easily. IE9 is not available on XP, the browser most (security) feature comparable would be Chrome.
7. There are people less experienced than you reading this board and may take your advice, not realizing what a poor choice they are making.
 
schmuckley said:
No..just don't surf torrents/pr0n or download stuff from strangers and you'll be fine
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So ignorant.

even [H] has been hit with malware before... no site is safe, period, so dont be neive...

"if i pull out in time she wont get pregnant...."
 
Let's put it this way , would you stick your dick in some random girl you've never even seen before only after a few drinks at some club without a condom?

Think of Anti-Virus as a condom and a Firewall as a cup to project your twigs and berries. Its common sense in the end.
 
Why not use MSE? Sucks resources? My ass...you cannot tell it is there on a modern machine.

I hate people that think they are above viruses and malware. I still run A/V because you never know when something might strike. A lot of the really nasty viruses are not noticeable. Welcome to the botnet.

Everyone that I have seen that has been overconfident in there ability to thwart viruses eventually gets nailed, and nailed hard.
 
schmuckley said:
I don't use IE or java :D
..forgot to mention that..yeah IE and java will get you viruses.
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It wasn't just IE that was hit ;).

If your "visiting PB" then yea you should have some protection on. Would you "visit a whore house' without protection on?
 
Ten years ago, a reasonably careful person could run without AV. Modern attack vectors are too varied, and system resources too substantial for you to not be running AV, no matter how careful you are.
 
A question to the responders here: would your answer change if you ran OSX or Linux, etc vs. windows? And does the built-in Windows defender software that comes with Win7 (vista too?) count as AV software?

I admit I don't run AV on my systems beyond the built in windows defender on my Win7 install that seems to self-update a few times a week

The thing is, like one of the posters above, I don't have the common attack vectors on my machine either. My Windows 7 PC is for gaming only, and I have a super barebones set of software installed. No java, no IE, no flash, no adobe, no nothing. Basically just steam, a couple of non-steam titles, and drivers. I do have safari and adblock/ghostery plugins. I also installed hostblock. I don't browse on the system hardly at all since I have other computers for that and I only use it to game.

For my OSX system, a similar situation where I didn't bother to install/enable java, no flash.

Honestly a lot of the time I find the free av or malware scanners just as slow and intrusive as malware itself- just perhaps without the malicious intent. My dad has the free avg protection on his machine and it brings the system to a standstill when it is scanning or updating. On another of his machines, it keeps popping up messages that Firefox is using 200mb of ram and that I should restart it, or that it wants me to do this or that. Just an awful experience. I did run MSE on a windows XP install via VMWare on a Mac I had for work and it didn't seem too bad though.
 
I just use black ice firewall and a norton seems to work fine for me...
 
I use Sandboxie with no antivirus when surfing the net...I know it's not meant to be a substitute but I don't see anything getting through the virtual sandbox
 
Magix said:
Ok, here's the deal. I've been using computers for years now, and so I am fairly knowledgeable as to what places to avoid, etc. Generally I'm not going to find myself going through 90 ads, filling surveys to earn some imaginery money or gain access to some weird porn site.

I've been using antivirus programs off and on for that time, and I haven't really noticed a difference - for the past year or so, I haven't had any firewall/antivirus program on whatsoever, and I haven't noticed any problems.

Keyword "noticed" - doesn't mean there aren't any problems. So my question is, should I install an antivirus program? Does it really help for an average computer user like me? So far I've found it's more of a hassle than it's worth.

As for what I do in my computer - play games (csgo, lol, minecraft), surf forums, youtube, there's the occasional piratebay, etc.
Click to expand...

If I ran MSE, Malware Bytes, and Spybot on your system, I highly doubt I would turn up nothing. :rolleyes:
As the others have said, yes, AV and Firewall services/software are a must, especially on Windows-based systems.

and I haven't been hacked over the course of the 10 or so years I've used my computer.
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...that you know of. I bet you're systems have been compromised more times than we can count, you just never noticed.

schmuckley said:
Except it sucks up resources and is unnecessary :rolleyes:
Have a virus?WIpe your hdd and do a fresh install :D
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No, just, no. I'm sorry, but that's the stupidest thing I've read in a while.
The only time to format is if the system is completely unrecoverable, and AV programs like MSE utilize very few system resources and CPU cycles, even on older hardware.

lulz @ everyone on here with a Windows-based machine with zero AV or anti-malware software.
I pity you all that are doing this that are not currently behind an enterprise-grade firewall.
 
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Yep, amazed at how any people nowadays are advocating not using AV. I not only run AV (MSE), but I also scan with Superantispyware and Malwarebytes on a weekly basis (full scans, not quick scans). Once every couple of weeks or so, I make sure the scans are run under safe mode, just in case. I also use a firewall, keep java and adobe products and Windows fully updated. With all of that, I've still had a couple of infections occur, so just think of what happens on computers with no protection. Oh and I'm not going to malicious sites either, any infections I have had can be traced back to infected ad banners, one from here and one from Arstechnica.
 
but it cools to now use AV! cause they are 1337 and dont get infected, yet.. how would they ever know..

Lets say one day you do get infected, you do know many things these days dont for example bring down your system.. they sit quietly, doing very little as they virus / malware doesnt want to get found, it isnt like back in the days an infection would bring down your system, these days they want to USE your system so they sit quiet in the background while you go about your daily routine..

Any person who says AV is a hassle, probably should not be using a computer, MSE, install, done. never have to touch it again!
 
On your Macbook.. or you run linux as your OS..


if not, yes it is...you will get bit one day, of course you likely would never admit it on here...but you some how think your smarted than the creators out there.. so good luck with that!
 
This is a simple case of past performance not being an indicator of future performance. Just because a seatbelt has never saved your life doesn't mean you should stop wearing one. To me, wearing a seatbelt or running AV are such minor (or non) inconveniences it just doesn't make sense not to. Today's machines are so powerful and today's AV's are so lightweight and low maintenance. Exactly what are you doing with your machine that its worth the risk to gain those extra few computing cycles?
 
RocketTech said:
I've never been shot, so I must be bullet-proof :p I've even been to Stockton, CA.
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Oh god Stockton....that place really will eventually need the military to come in and just steam roll all the shit going on there. Hell, it could be like the Flint, Michigan of California! :eek:


@OP

I run MSE + Malwarebytes Pro. Best combo IMHO.
 
Here's a better car analogy: Not running antivirus because it has never caught anything and takes up system resources is like removing your car airbags because they have never gone off and the added weight decreases fuel efficiency. Sure you may gain negligible performance, but is it really worth it in the event you actually need them? I, personally, will be keeping my air bags and AV.
 
Havent been using any AV for years, but I'm also over the point of browsing wierd websites, if I got unlucky anyway I had also become skilled enough to get rid of it myself.

But since I stopped installing Java I havent had a single virus, and I can be without the websites that require it.
 
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