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Do ALL routers fail so badly??

D

Dario D.

Gawd
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
582
Hi, all. :)
Does anyone know why it seems physically impossible for a router to get a very good score in a review? (talking about home routers, not corporate stuff...)

I remember trying to buy a router maybe a year ago or so, and I could find almost nothing with an average score higher than about 3.5 out of 5. I literally bought, returned, bought, returned about 5 not-very-well-reviewed routers from the store, and had to settle with yet another Linksys piece of junk... which now randomly fails maybe once a week, needing to be reset. That issue, by the way, is exactly like all 3 previous Linksys routers... Two of those met early deaths, because, apparently, it was just time to die one day... and the third one (most recent) I bricked myself, with a custom firmware install. That firmware wasn't just to mess around, though; I needed to boost the signal strength, so that it would merely reach the end of my average-sized American house.

See this link. Nothing over 8 out of 10, most well below.
http://www.cnet.com/topic-reviews/r...ol;aeaoofnhgocdbnbeljkmbjdmhbcokfdb-mousedown

Is making a good router somehow EXTREEEMELY hard? Or are the companies addicted to the element of routers dying, so that people like me have to buy new ones every 3-5 years? (I know I'm not alone with the general annoyance at their build quality and user experience, because their user reviews are - and have always been - troubled.) I think someone who doesn't use the wireless ability might never notice anything, but I've never known a router that didn't drop the wireless signal like it was a hot potato. And the Linksys WRT120N I have now (3 stars average) drops the hardwire signal, too, but less often.

My router timeline:
1) Linksys Something A (died - always had reset issues)
2) Linksys Something B (died - always had reset issues)
2) Linksys WRT54G v8 (died via custom firmware, but always had reset issues)
3) Linksys WRT120N (current - worst reset issues yet)

I tried a Netgear and Belkin last year, but couldn't settle on them, for reasons I can't remember.
 
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Honestly, almost all of the issues I have seen with consumer grade routers are firmware related. If you get something that can take open source router firmware then you will have way less issues.

And CNET for reviews? Not a good place to judge a product IMO. Much better sites out there for reviews on computer hardware. I'd rather go through the newegg review page.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124190

Look at that router. 3500 reviews and 2900 of them are 5 stars. It doesn't even do 802.11n!
 
agreed. My wrt310n had massive reset issues when running the stock firmware. Stuck dd-wrt on it, and I have to power cycle maybe once a year.
 
Eickst said:
Honestly, almost all of the issues I have seen with consumer grade routers are firmware related. If you get something that can take open source router firmware then you will have way less issues.

And CNET for reviews? Not a good place to judge a product IMO. Much better sites out there for reviews on computer hardware. I'd rather go through the newegg review page.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124190

Look at that router. 3500 reviews and 2900 of them are 5 stars. It doesn't even do 802.11n!
Click to expand...

smallnetbuilder.com is where the OP should start his research. Also at this stage in the game don't consider anything that doesn't support wireless N as newer routers simply have better antennas, range, throughput, etc.

As for what router to get, I recommend finding something popular since those typically get third party firmware support. Next your two main choices are Atheros and Broadcom based routers. There's a few OpenWRT based firmwares out there that support Atheros and are good (Gargoyle is a current favorite of mine), but the "big" ones like DD-WRT work best on support Broadcom routers and Tomato is strictly Broadcom focused. Personally I've always just had better luck with Broadcom wireless products.

As for the untimely death of routers, I believe ventilation has a lot to do with that. Also most of these things are in sealed chassis without ventilation holes...
 
I've never had a router die, but I've had the reset issue on every router I've owned.

Every few months it must always be "hard reset" because things will be slowed to a hault. Even with DD-WRT firmware. Anyone know why that is?
 
rive22 said:
I've never had a router die, but I've had the reset issue on every router I've owned.

Every few months it must always be "hard reset" because things will be slowed to a hault. Even with DD-WRT firmware. Anyone know why that is?
Click to expand...

Do you mean power cycle or whacking the reset button and having to reconfigure?

Routers need to be power cycled from time to time becausing of memory leaks, issues with routing tables, excessive connections causing glitches (firmware not handling traffic properly, firmware "glitches"). Things like that.
 
I couldn't agree with you more. I recently went through 5 different consumer grade routers myself. I've been looking into moving to either a Mikrotik routerboard or DIY pfsense box in addition to a Ubiquiti AP.
 
Name tomato
Model Linksys E2000

Time Sun, 16 Oct 2011 10:10:38 -0500
Uptime 211 days, 10:48:02
CPU Load (1 / 5 / 15 mins) 0.00 / 0.00 / 0.00
Total / Free Memory 29.05
Click to expand...

This is my home router, running Tomato firmware. The only reason it has 211 days of uptime and not more is because that's when I swapped it in replacing my WRT54GL that had been there for 2 years.

Not sure what you guys are doing to have to reset your routers all the time......
 
maw said:
I couldn't agree with you more. I recently went through 5 different consumer grade routers myself. I've been looking into moving to either a Mikrotik routerboard or DIY pfsense box in addition to a Ubiquiti AP.
Click to expand...

I use a Mikrotik router with Untangle transparent bridge with UBNT Unifi APs. Rock solid setup. I haven't ever had to reset my Mikrotik apart from firmware upgrades.
 
Ehren8879 said:
Do you mean power cycle or whacking the reset button and having to reconfigure?

Routers need to be power cycled from time to time becausing of memory leaks, issues with routing tables, excessive connections causing glitches (firmware not handling traffic properly, firmware "glitches"). Things like that.
Click to expand...

Wacking the reset button and having to reconfigure. Ahh gotcha :D
 
I use an ASUS 520gU with Tomato on it as a router...the thing is ROCK solid. Never had to reset it or touch it except for changes/updates.

I then use an older Netgear w/DD-WRT and Linksys E2000 w/Tomato as APs. The Wifi on the main ASUS is disabled.

Another thing, I run my internal LAN connections through Netgear gigabit switches. They only have to put traffic load through the routers/APs for internet and wireless.
 
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Ive seen TONS of routers die because of bad power, and ded power adapters. Electronics do not like bad ac power. I have a athlon slot "A" with 128 mb's of ram in it 30 gig Fujitsu hard drive and the machine runs PERFECTLY decently fast running windows 2000 too, the key to any component is to feed it clean power.

IE a UPS..
 
Grentz said:
Another thing, I run my internal LAN connections through Netgear gigabit switches. They only have to put traffic load through the routers/APs for internet and wireless.
Click to expand...

Does this really make a difference though? Doesn't all your traffic eventually go through the router anyway whether or not they are connected directly to the router or connected to a switch that is plugged into your router? Or am I not completely understanding your setup?
 
maw said:
Does this really make a difference though? Doesn't all your traffic eventually go through the router anyway whether or not they are connected directly to the router or connected to a switch that is plugged into your router? Or am I not completely understanding your setup?
Click to expand...


Only wan and wireless would go through his setup. No need for a gateway if the two machines are on the same LAN. So if his PC and file server are on the switch they wouldn't have to go through the router. (assuming same LAN, VLAN, etc)
 
Eickst said:
Only wan and wireless would go through his setup. No need for a gateway if the two machines are on the same LAN. So if his PC and file server are on the switch they wouldn't have to go through the router. (assuming same LAN, VLAN, etc)
Click to expand...

Ahhh, So basically you're saying things like file transfers and media streaming wouldn't go through the router, they'll just talk to each other through the separate switch instead?
 
maw said:
Ahhh, So basically you're saying things like file transfers and media streaming wouldn't go through the router, they'll just talk to each other through the separate switch instead?
Click to expand...

That is correct. For *most* home users this is the case. Anything on the same switch will not need to go to the router in order to get to another device on the same switch.
 
Eickst said:
This is my home router, running Tomato firmware. The only reason it has 211 days of uptime and not more is because that's when I swapped it in replacing my WRT54GL that had been there for 2 years.

Not sure what you guys are doing to have to reset your routers all the time......
Click to expand...

Sometimes home routers just don't behave. Dead simple configs. Won't connect, won't pass dhcp info, won't talk to your isp. /shrug. I've seen them down to 3-4 times a day even.
 
OP is going to hate me. Did you have your router behind a line conditioner to protect against brownouts (and not just surges)? :D

ok, ok. ;o This used to happen to my family too. I got sick and tired of them dropping like flies requiring an annual router replacement, so I had my mom spend in the $80-100 range (logic: because higher-end for such a low-end network = better hardware/components = better lifespan, shouldn't be so cheap as to die so easily). So far this course of action has worked well. Haven't had problems with the router for like 5-6 years now. Previously the budget for a router was like $30-40.

But if you go high-end into the near/sub-$100 range, you should build a pfSense firewall using a used Dell Optiplex and a $30-45 gigabit switch (for more ports).
 
I've never had a router die on me. I just outgrew them feature-wise.

I'd still probably be with my WRT54G if it had gigabit network.

But I've outgrown my WNDR3700 as well. Moving to a UTM for more control and to appease my ever growing paranoia.
 
I had a dlink dir-655 for 4 years and had to reset it maybe 2-3 times. I replaced it recently because i don't have a surge protector on my coax and lightning came in through the cable Internet line.

I replaced it with a wndr3700v1 and run dd-wrt. It's been rock stable for about 6 months so far with no resets yet.
 
Dario D. said:
Hi, all. :)
Does anyone know why it seems physically impossible for a router to get a very good score in a review? (talking about home routers, not corporate stuff...)

I remember trying to buy a router maybe a year ago or so, and I could find almost nothing with an average score higher than about 3.5 out of 5. I literally bought, returned, bought, returned about 5 not-very-well-reviewed routers from the store (and I'm not that type of shopper), and had to settle with yet another Linksys piece of junk... which now randomly fails every couple days, needing to be reset. That issue, by the way, is exactly like all 3 previous Linksys routers... Two of those met early deaths, because, apparently, it was just time to die one day... and the third one (most recent) I bricked myself, with a custom firmware install. That firmware wasn't just to mess around, though; I needed to boost the signal strength, so that it would merely reach the end of my average-sized American house.

See this link. Nothing over 8 out of 10, most well below.
http://www.cnet.com/topic-reviews/r...ol;aeaoofnhgocdbnbeljkmbjdmhbcokfdb-mousedown

Is making a good router somehow EXTREEEMELY hard? Or are they addicted to the element of them dying, so that people like me have to buy new ones every 3-5 years? (I know I'm not alone with the general annoyance at their build quality and user experience, because their user reviews are - and have always been - troubled.) I think someone who doesn't use the wireless ability might never notice anything, but I've never known a router that didn't drop the wireless signal like it was a hot potato. And the router I have now drops the hardwire signal, too.

My router timeline:
1) Linksys Something A (died - always had reset issues)
2) Linksys Something B (died - always had reset issues)
2) Linksys WRT54G v8 (died via custom firmware, but always had reset issues)
3) Linksys WRT120N (current - always had reset issues)

I tried a Netgear and Belkin last year, but couldn't settle on them, for reasons I can't remember.
Click to expand...

lets not worry about the why. lets just understand that almost every router is bullshit. now to find the ones that are good so we can get one with our lives.

here's a hint. the top review sources (maximumpc, smallnetbuilder, etc) have found their favorites. the top third party firmware projects (ddwrt, gargoyle, etc) have found their favorites. intersect these and you'll find the top routers.

I'll fast forward you to the solution. vintage linksys wrt54. tp-link 1034nd. netgear 3700. cisco e4200. there are only three new routers I'd recommend to anyone, regardless of budget.
 
OpStar said:
I use a Syswan SW24 and I haven't had any issues with it at all.
Click to expand...

Rebadged hotbrick with newer firmware...

It runs an embeded BSD core....so yeah no need to reboot.

BTW.. if you beat the UPnP or the VPN (if equipped) it will show you its ugly side.
 
That's why I stopped buying cheap routers. Honestly, my Apple AEBS has been the most solid router I've ever owned. Of everyone I know with them they just run..they don't need to be reset and they don't die. Pay a bit more, get a bit more.
 
Commercial grade = commercial pricing.

Zyxel and Sonicwall make commercial grade routers, just site down before checking out the pricing.

There is a reason I don't recommend those for "Normal" people
. For example by father in law needed a new router, I purchased a Netgear 3700 refurb for him for $50. I could have purchased a Zyxel vfg6005nl (and it qualifies as SOHO router, not commercial grade) for $150, which would have been more reliable. But for x3 the cost? He's better served buying a new refub ever 2 years. The last one made it 4 years. The economy of scale has to make sense for the user.


PFsense, routerOS,and Untangle are a much better choice for most users.
 
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