Disadvantages to SFF?

C

Cyraxx

Supreme [H]ardness
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Feb 21, 2005
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So I have been contemplating a Shuttle for the past few months... the thought of having a tiny box on my desk with the same power as a normal box just sounds great.

Currently sitting on my desk is the incredibly fat Thermaltake Armor, this case is massive, and bairly fits ontop of my desk, and wont fit under the desk. But I asked a friend who takes up selling computers built by himself to others. Said he did a few SFF machines, and said they are great as long as your not looking to do anything massive with it, as in....Play CoD2 and do something else at the same time. I was under the impression with a SFF it can do anything a normal PC can with those parts, and the only thing you sacrifice is the ability to upgrade much.

Anyways, is it true theres more disadvantages to using a SFF than simply the ability to upgrade a lot more?
 
I see no reason why a small form factor pc can't handle most any task a mid / full size can. Processor support is the same, most have 8 to 10 usb ports, 2 ide, 2 to 4 sata, support 2 to 4 gig dual channel ram, support pcie x16 video cards, some have gigabit ethernet onboard, even dual ethernet. What's missing from the picture?

The only real difference is the amount of expansion available. In my case, i only have 2 pci, 1 pcie x16 and 1 pcie x1, and one of the pci slots is blocked by my video card's cooling. I use a pcie x1 gigabit card, and my radeon 7200 kicked my augigy card out (it was quad display or quality sound). So in that sense, until i can figure out how to make my video card cooled in one slot, i'm disadvantaged. But the advantages far outweigh.

I suppose in the case of a shuttle you might be a little more limited in that you get just a pcie x16 single slot, but there are many fine cards that can fit. And i tell you what - i don't think you'll miss lugging that giant ass case to a lan party.
 
I think what he was indicating was that things overheat and cant handle doing multiple things, I guess thats what im wondering if its true or not.
 
Just depends on the design of the case, and how you customize it. I see no reason why you couldn't get the temps you wanted with a little creativity.
 
Cooling system in my shuttle is pretty decent. Fans are quiet unless I'm doing something CPU intensive. I'm running a Venice 939 at 2.52 ghz at stock voltage. I only have 1 agp slot and 1 pci slot though. I wanted a tv tuner and a good sound card, so i decided to use the pci slot for an EMU card, and get an all in wonder for my video card. Kinda sucks cause i can't have an hdtv tuner too, but i'll probably end up selling the EMU card and using the onboard digital output and an external DAC.
 
Only disadvantage I see is that Shuttles usually have about a $100 premium. But you can build a cube for the same as a tower case.
 
I've never had any issues with any for my SFF systems, cubes or shuttles. The only thing I don't like about my wife's Shuttle is that the AGP port is on the outside so it needs a single slot cooler but otherwise it is great.
 
Going from a mid-tower case to a SFF (Qpack), what I did find was that the biggest PITA was that you have to be organized. I thought people who wire-tied all the wires, etc. were just being obsessive. You have to do this w/ a SFF or you'll go nuts w/ all the wires everwhere.
Also, pulling/replacing a PCI card is a PITA because you have to disconnect a bunch of stuff to get to the card (either the power supply or the wires so you can slide the motherboard tray out). That said, you really don't need many cards in there nowadays w/ the loaded mATX boards w/ most features built-in...
 
SFF Disadvantages:

Weak power supplies. (This is getting better though)
Lack of space for components limiting the expandability of the machine. (Large cards like the 7950GX2 are almost out of the question on SFF PCs.)
Often very poor motherboard selection, especially when it comes to SLi and Crossfire
Lack of good airflow.
Lack of space for many cooling solutions

SFF Advantages:

Smaller
Lighter
Portable

You can still overcome many of these inherent design flaws with some work and of course money.
 
Dan_D said:
SFF Disadvantages:

1 Weak power supplies. (This is getting better though)
2 Lack of space for components limiting the expandability of the machine. (Large cards like the 7950GX2 are almost out of the question on SFF PCs.)
3 Often very poor motherboard selection, especially when it comes to SLi and Crossfire
4 Lack of good airflow.
5 Lack of space for many cooling solutions
Click to expand...

1 Only PSU problem there ever was, was with shuttle when they only offered their 200w PSU back in the SN41 AXP days. They immediately released the 250w to solve it, and every shuttle since then has been provided adequate power inside the barebone. If you are making your own custom mATX setup, then it's your fault for not choosing the right PSU...

2 7950GX2 and X1950XTX fit in all DUAL slot shuttles (IE- not the chassis with the cards on the left) and ALL mATX mobos can take those cards, again, it comes down to user selection. If you do your research- you will know that the V300 will not take those, but the SG01 will fit them perfectly.

3 Ok, SLi and crossfire dont appeal to the mATX market yet, there is just no demand. IF the demand was there like there is for ATX then there would be no problem. eVGA tried SLi with the 939 board but the market was still not 'too' ready and the board was released too late in the game.

4 Lack of good airflow was solved when shuttle released their new chassis designs, and mATX case makers started putting actual engineering work into their cube cases. the SG01-E and V300 and microfly all have perfectly fine airflow.

5 Yes, lack of space for many cooling solutions. If you're going SMALL form factor, you shouldnt expect to put a 45-heatpipe cooler inside your little toaster or one of those ginourmous passive coolers; it just doesnt make sense. And even if you could, why put so much weight into something thats meant to be portable?
 
I'm also searching for a new SFF to replace my aging desktop.
I have lots of questions, not many answers just yet.

So far the only major issue I see is the video card size. A lot of current
SFF cases may limit the length that will fit to about 8" in length
(maybe height also?) without a mod. (I'm NOT a modder)

Since there are a lot of new cards coming out like the X1950 PRO just reviewed
here at HardOCP, the first thing I think about is...will it fit?

I don't want to commit until I can get space measurements and this seems
difficult when looking at the specs...
 
msny said:
I'm also searching for a new SFF to replace my aging desktop.
I have lots of questions, not many answers just yet.

So far the only major issue I see is the video card size. A lot of current
SFF cases may limit the length that will fit to about 8" in length
(maybe height also?) without a mod. (I'm NOT a modder)

Since there are a lot of new cards coming out like the X1950 PRO just reviewed
here at HardOCP, the first thing I think about is...will it fit?

I don't want to commit until I can get space measurements and this seems
difficult when looking at the specs...
Click to expand...

You should really be specific as to what SFF case you are looking at. If you are looking at a QPack / MicroFly, then it should fit just fine. I just installed a 7900GTO in my QPack and it is huge but fits just fine.
 
Scar1.8T said:
You should really be specific as to what SFF case you are looking at. If you are looking at a QPack / MicroFly, then it should fit just fine. I just installed a 7900GTO in my QPack and it is huge but fits just fine.
Click to expand...

Can't be specific when doing research, that's why I ask questions.
I'm open to almost anything and just need info at this point in time.
 
To OP, I can't recommend a Shuttle as I've seen the power issues that can arise from them...someone I know threw his in the trash after getting so frustrated with it that he copied my system instead.

I didn't agree with him throwing it away, but I understand his frustration.

I recommend building your own system and I highly recommend the SG01e for your case. I have this case wrapped around the components in my signature and love it. You can fit in a full size power supply and run any video card setup you want. The system runs cool and can do any multitasking I throw at it.

Disadvantages? None that I can think of. A thief wouldn't get a hernia if he tried to run off with my case, I guess that could be a disadvantage.

Everytime I throw my case into its bag and walk out the door with it over my shoulder and an LCD in my other hand I am reminded of how glad I am that I went SFF.
 
from cnets silverstone sg01-e review

The good: Sleek design; solid construction; multiple fans.

The bad: Tight fit for some video cards; hard to access the hard drive cage.


are there any listed measurements for the max length a video card can be for this case?
 
sideout said:
from cnets silverstone sg01-e review

The good: Sleek design; solid construction; multiple fans.

The bad: Tight fit for some video cards; hard to access the hard drive cage.


are there any listed measurements for the max length a video card can be for this case?
Click to expand...

This is my concern also and it would be nice to know...
 
Putting a video card with a 2-slot cooler does make things more interesting for Matx motherboards, but just about anything is still possible. You might have to work and spend a little more to get equal cooling to a big case, but it shouldn't take any drastic measures unless you go water cooling or get a case with sucky airflow (some do have pretty good airflow.)
 
Steeeeve said:
what? just go to my site for SFFTech for small form factor reviews.
Click to expand...

shameless plug.

With regards to airflow concerns, the most popular SFF cases people use in this forum seem to have no issue with the front to back airflow. Since the SFF is smaller, you tend to get better movement of air CFM-wise.

I guess most annoying thing bout SFF is having to remove certain parts in order to get access to others. Space is a bit tight but thats to be expected. Power supplies without modular cables tend to get messy. Noise from vibration seems to be a problem in general since most of the well built SFF cases are aluminum made.
 
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