DirectX 12 won't require a new graphics card

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polonyc2

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Turns out that Microsoft's Direct X 12 update won't require you to buy a new graphics card after all, despite what Microsoft officials said following Wednesday's Windows 10 event..."While we are not yet ready to detail everything related to DirectX12, we can share that we are working closely with all of our hardware partners to help ensure that most modern PC gaming hardware will work well with DirectX12, including; NVIDIA's Maxwell, Kepler and Fermi-based GPUs, Intel's 4th generation (and newer) Core processors and AMD's Graphics Core Next (GCN) based GPUs...We'll have more to share about DirectX12 at GDC in March."...

http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/22/7874793/directx-12-wont-require-a-new-graphics-card-after-all
 
This was made clear a year ago when Direct X 12 was announced.
 
DirectX 12: no new hardware required.
DirectX feature level 12.0: new hardware may be required.

Don't expect many games to require a card with partial or full feature level 12.0 support for a very, very long time.
 
wonderfield said:
DirectX 12: no new hardware required.
DirectX feature level 12.0: new hardware may be required.

Don't expect many games to require a card with partial or full feature level 12.0 support for a very, very long time.
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I don't agree. As I understand it, XBOX One will be able to utilize DX12 and the fact that Windows 10 is a free upgrade for Win 7 and 8 users means the install base for DX12 will not only be huge, but it will likely be quickly adopted. I don't see any reason why developers wouldn't want to take advantage of it for a very very long time.
 
maybe 1-2 DX12 launch titles with Windows 10...other then that developers are slow to adapt...late 2016- early 2017 before it becomes mainstream
 
I wonder what are the new features it brings that will require hardware implementation.
 
RamonGTP said:
I don't agree. As I understand it, XBOX One will be able to utilize DX12 and the fact that Windows 10 is a free upgrade for Win 7 and 8 users means the install base for DX12 will not only be huge, but it will likely be quickly adopted. I don't see any reason why developers wouldn't want to take advantage of it for a very very long time.
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What? Windows 10 is a free upgrade for windows 7 users?!

If they actually do that and do not make you purchase it after 6-12 months then that would be uncharacteristically nice of them.
 
Yes Win10 is a free upgrade for all 7 and 8.1 users.
This has been talked about for a couple of days now....
 
Maybe they are doing that because they have realised a lot of people are getting p*****d off with them and that there is a threat from google and other companies, I was not happy when I read that DX12 will be win10 only and I will be forced to buy win10 to use it... But if its free then great... I think they need to do something like that to keep customers happy.
 
Ah I see... its the windows 10 technical preview... So they are not giving you a finished retail copy of win 10 for free then...
 
Nicholars said:
Ah I see... its the windows 10 technical preview... So they are not giving you a finished retail copy of win 10 for free then...
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They are giving a free full retail final version when its ready. During the first year.
 
Stoly said:
They are giving a free full retail final version when its ready. During the first year.
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But then you will have to pay to buy it or go back to win 7 which will then be obsolete... Not exactly giving you windows 10 for free
 
Nicholars said:
But then you will have to pay to buy it or go back to win 7 which will then be obsolete... Not exactly giving you windows 10 for free
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No.
We announced that a free upgrade for Windows 10 will be made available to customers running Windows 7, Windows 8.1, and Windows Phone 8.1 who upgrade in the first year after launch. This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no cost.
Click to expand...
 
EdZ said:
No.
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Hmm so if you own a copy of windows 7 you can get a free upgrade to windows 10 which will never require "activation" and you will never have to pay for it? I have a hard time believing it and think it may be worded cleverly or something... sounds a bit good to be true.
 
Go read some threads.
Why would not activating it have any bearing?
 
Please lets not start this again.
Lets make it really simple for everyone involved...


Windows 10 is a free upgrade for Windows 7/8.1 users.
By that I mean you get Windows 10 for Free and its a full licensed retail product. You never have to pay for anything or reactivate it or whatever. It is your OS that you own and keep much like the last one you purchased.
 
So with DX12 we'll finally be able to get access to features on 3-4 year old hardware.

Thanks, MS, for caring about PC gamers.
 
All the MS hate is really confusing.
Microsoft gives us a free OS upgrade and we respond with doubt and suspicion that its for some evil purpose. Then we also complain about new features in DX12?

Jeez grow up people.
 
They said dx11 would be backwards compatible with dx10 but there are games that run on dx11 only like Watchdogs and Crysis 3.
The way things are going I wouldn't be surprised if Ubisoft or EA are working on dx12 only games now. Especially after the ridiculous requirements on assassin's creed unity. You could have a brand new $1000 + gaming computer that doesn't meet requirements for that game. I am not saying any $1000 rig can't play it. Just saying I wouldn't underestimate what developers will do as far as locking you out of a game with hardware requirements and DX requirement will make the game not work at all,like in crysis 3.
 
{NG}Fidel said:
All the MS hate is really confusing.
Microsoft gives us a free OS upgrade and we respond with doubt and suspicion that its for some evil purpose. Then we also complain about new features in DX12?

Jeez grow up people.
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I don't hate microsoft, but I am simply going on 15 years of experience using windows and microsoft products.... reading the articles it looks like it is free for a year then you will have to pay to upgrade, I don't think it is actually 100% free for life, maybe it is I don't know, they way it was worded by microsoft means it could either be a 1 year trial which you then have to "activate" and pay for after a year, or it could mean it is actually 100% free. It will definitely be free for a year but if it is 100% free for life I don't know as the way it is worded by microsoft could mean either.
 
Nicholars said:
I don't hate microsoft, but I am simply going on 15 years of experience using windows and microsoft products.... reading the articles it looks like it is free for a year then you will have to pay to upgrade, I don't think it is actually 100% free for life, maybe it is I don't know, they way it was worded by microsoft means it could either be a 1 year trial which you then have to "activate" and pay for after a year, or it could mean it is actually 100% free. It will definitely be free for a year but if it is 100% free for life I don't know as the way it is worded by microsoft could mean either.
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Reading what they said might help you.

I'm nowhere near a fan of their recent behaviour, but this one is pretty easy to resolve.
 
Nenu said:
Reading what they said might help you.

I'm nowhere near a fan of their recent behaviour, but this one is pretty easy to resolve.
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Where does it definitely say that windows 10 will be 100% free for life for win 7 / 8 users?
 
Nicholars said:
Where does it definitely say that windows 10 will be 100% free for life for win 7 / 8 users?
Click to expand...

everywhere...

--------------
http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/01/21/the-next-generation-of-windows-windows-10/

This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no cost.

--------------

http://www.pcgamer.com/microsoft-windows-10-will-not-be-sold-as-a-subscription/

At its press event today, Microsoft announced that Windows 10 will be a free upgrade for Windows 7 and Windows 8 users during its first year of availability. There was some confusion, however, when Microsoft's Terry Myerson started talking about Windows 10 "as a service." Did that mean that after that first year of free availability, Windows 10 would cost an annual fee? I asked Myerson for clarification after the presentation, and he confirmed that there will be no additional fees attached to Windows 10, whenever you buy it.

Myerson clarified that Windows 10 users will still get free updates and support for the lifetime of the OS, exactly like past versions of Windows (like XP and Windows 7's Service Packs, for example). There's no subscription model for updates or support or continuing to use the OS. Myerson's reference to Windows "as a service" simply meant that Microsoft plans to update the OS with smaller, more regular updates rather than the big, chunky updates of past Service Packs.

-----------
http://www.computerworld.com/articl...ost-important-words-microsoft-said-today.html

Terry Myerson, executive vice president of the operating systems group, said that anyone running Windows 7, Windows 8.1 or Windows Phone 8.1 will be able to upgrade for free to Windows 10 in the first year after the operating system launches. And he noted that it's not just a one-time upgrade -- Windows will continue to be upgraded for free for the life of the device.

----------

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tonybra...ows-10-unravels-key-microsoft-bashing-fodder/


Susan Bradley, a Microsoft MVP and writer for Windows Secrets, relayed that Nadella reiterated to journalists that all customers running Windows 7, Windows 8.1 and Windows Phone 8.1 will be able to upgrade to Windows 10 for free within a one-year period following the operating system’s launch later this year. After that one-year window (no pun intended) expires, users will have to pay for Windows, just as they always have. Those who have already downloaded it for free get to keep it forever, though. It won’t suddenly expire or require customers to pay when the one-year period is up.

----------------
 
jwcalla said:
So with DX12 we'll finally be able to get access to features on 3-4 year old hardware.

Thanks, MS, for caring about PC gamers.
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Well there are some new hardware features that will require hardware implementation in future GPUs. So there will be a need for "true" DX12 GPU in the future. It's just that not all improvements are restricted to the new GPU, some of them we will be able to take advantage of with current GPU.

I think one of the improvement DX12 aims to bring is the increase in efficiency similar to what AMD tried to do with their own APU. With DX being the API almost everyone uses today, this would bring such optimization approach to everyone, and that is something that is good for PC gaming. Most users don't spend on expensive hardware, and such optimization would be beneficial to many.
 
Ah I think I was reading it wrong.... When it says "windows 10 will be free to win 7/8 users for a year"

Thanks for the info.

I am pleased that I skipped win 8.
 
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Hornet said:
Well there are some new hardware features that will require hardware implementation in future GPUs. So there will be a need for "true" DX12 GPU in the future. It's just that not all improvements are restricted to the new GPU, some of them we will be able to take advantage of with current GPU.
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The current methodology is backwards. Nobody builds GPUs to match an API. The API must be built to reflect the way the GPU works. The idea of creating DX12 and then getting DX12 cards is backwards.

The API needs to be flexible enough to be adaptable to a new GPU release. But we don't have that with DX because it's an idiotic closed API run by a single company that has absolutely no motivation to improve the circumstances for PC gaming.

And that's why CAD users were mopping the floor with bindless textures on Kepler while the "master race" PC gamers were playing dumbed-down 720p console ports at 30 fps.
 
455olds said:
They said dx11 would be backwards compatible with dx10 but there are games that run on dx11 only like Watchdogs and Crysis 3.
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I ran 2x 4870x2 in quad crossfire (DX 10.1 hardware) for years after DX11 was released and there was never any issues playing DX11 games. This level of compatibility is actually common in DirectX; really, the DX9 to DX10 transition was the exception that seems to have wreaked havoc on people's expectations in this regard.

Even better, playing DX11 games on DX10.1 hardware allowed me to actually make use of the DX10.1 features that weren't used in most DX10 games, due to DX10.1 and DX10.0 each having their own separate feature level when running DX11 games. Just the same, DX12 will have separate feature levels for DX11 and DX11.1 hardware, allowing current users of DX11.1 hardware to finally make use of those features.
 
jwcalla said:
Nobody builds GPUs to match an API.
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Except for every GPU for the last decade at least. For Direct3D specifically, the draft specifications are available to GPU manufacturers to allow them to implement the required features in hardware. Microsoft then make the API publically available to allow programmers to write applications that use that API, and hardware becomes available that supports the features exposed by that API.

It would be nonsensical to build features into hardware that nobody can use because there's no API that allows access to them.
 
So if I get the windows 10 preview now... Will that just be updated to the consumer version on release? (eg. without me doing anything or reinstalling it)

So I could effectively get windows 10 now (preview version) and just keep running that until the consumer release which will update the preview version for free?
 
Also from Polygon:

The earlier confusion comes following yesterday's two-hour long Windows 10 press conference on Microsoft's Redmond campus. In a meeting with a gathering of press to show off the Xbox App for Windows 10, Mike Ybarra, partner director of program management who leads engineering efforts for console and PC, responded to the following question about DirectX 12 support of graphics cards.

"To get the full support of DX12 will users need to get a new graphics card?"

To get the "full benefits of DX12," Ybarra replied, "the answer is yes."

"There will be DX 11.1 cards that take advantage of a lot of the driver and software tech that we're bringing in Windows 10, but if you want the full benefits of DX12, you're going to need a DX12 card."

The confusion seems to lie in the difference between full support of DX12 features and support of some DX12 features.
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I assume this is what is meant:

1) Fermi, Kepler and Maxwell GPUs will work 100% with DX12. Likewise for AMD's listed counterparts.

2) Older graphic cards will obviously run on a PC with DX12, but can't use the features. If you want to actually take advantage of DX12 you will have to upgrade the GPU.

It makes sense as that is what they have been saying all along. Likewise, Nvidia markets the GTX 980 as "DX12 Ready". I don't think they would do that if they did not know if the Maxwell cards could or could not actually utilize DX12 features.
 
I used to think this forum had more tech savvy smarter people than the common masses. After reading the uninformed comments in this thread, i might be wrong.
 
DX12 isn't monolithic. You can use the API without using all the features of that API, and it may be a requirement to write in a way that allows certain features that have a hardware requirement to fall back to simpler implementations if that hardware is not present.

Come on guys, Direct 3D Feature Levels have existed since DX10. This isn't a new concept.

Nicholars said:
So I could effectively get windows 10 now (preview version) and just keep running that until the consumer release which will update the preview version for free?
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Possibly, but you shouldn't.
 
Nicholars said:
Hmm so if you own a copy of windows 7 you can get a free upgrade to windows 10 which will never require "activation" and you will never have to pay for it? I have a hard time believing it and think it may be worded cleverly or something... sounds a bit good to be true.
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Holy shit you're stubborn. Just take it at face value and be on your way.
 
EdZ said:
Except for every GPU for the last decade at least. For Direct3D specifically, the draft specifications are available to GPU manufacturers to allow them to implement the required features in hardware. Microsoft then make the API publically available to allow programmers to write applications that use that API, and hardware becomes available that supports the features exposed by that API.
Click to expand...

That sounds all fine and good for a PBS special, but that's not the reality. GPU designers sit down and figure out the best way to create the most efficient hardware. They do not go out and grab the latest DirectX spec and then try to design a GPU around it. That might make for wonderful Microsoft marketing, but that's not how it goes.

I do concede that there is obviously a lot of back and forth communication between MS and the vendors. I do not argue that MS is off in a bubble making their API on their own. But my criticism is that their methodology represents a bottleneck for adapting future technology. It should be the vendor that changes the API to best match their hardware implementation, preferably with day one support.

It would be nonsensical to build features into hardware that nobody can use because there's no API that allows access to them.
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I didn't say such a case existed. I specifically criticized the fact that DX users -- not everybody, but DX users -- have not been able to access the hardware in a way that is best for the GPU design. The example I gave is bindless textures (aka bindless multidraw indirect), which was something introduced on a last-generation GPU architecture (Kepler).

CAD programs* have had access to this important feature because they're not bound to a pile of crap API like DirectX. Sorry to hear that master race PC gamers were out of luck... but hey, DX12 should finally make this available... four years later.


(* this is a new extension just released by nvidia about a month ago, which takes the bindless concept available on Kepler and Maxwell to practically ludicrous speed.)
 
RamonGTP said:
I don't agree. As I understand it, XBOX One will be able to utilize DX12 and the fact that Windows 10 is a free upgrade for Win 7 and 8 users means the install base for DX12 will not only be huge, but it will likely be quickly adopted. I don't see any reason why developers wouldn't want to take advantage of it for a very very long time.
Click to expand...
We're talking about different things. D3D12, to which you're referring, is the API. Each version of Direct3D has an associated feature level: it's the set of features that exist atop the base API, requiring hardware support. Do not expect many developers to start leveraging feature level 12.0 until long after it's released unless existing hardware supports either that feature level in its entirety or some subset of it.
 
jwcalla said:
That sounds all fine and good for a PBS special, but that's not the reality. GPU designers sit down and figure out the best way to create the most efficient hardware. They do not go out and grab the latest DirectX spec and then try to design a GPU around it.
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Then let us all marvel at Microsoft's prescience is managing to release a finished API to the public before that cards that can implement the feature set of that API are available. e.g. DirectX 10 releasing with no cards able to support it's full featureset.
But my criticism is that their methodology represents a bottleneck for adapting future technology.
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It's more that both DirectX and OpenGL have literally decades of backwards-compatibility and legacy codepaths that they are supporting. Hence the clean break with the production of DX12 (a new API base) and DX11.3 (same base as all DX versions so far) in parallel.
It should be the vendor that changes the API to best match their hardware implementation, preferably with day one support.
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This would be a return to the bad old days of vendor-specific APIs like Glide.
 
EdZ said:
Then let us all marvel at Microsoft's prescience is managing to release a finished API to the public before that cards that can implement the feature set of that API are available. e.g. DirectX 10 releasing with no cards able to support it's full featureset.
Click to expand...

MS can make an API and throw all kinds of magic unicorn dust in it. That doesn't mean GPU engineers are going to even care one wit about that when designing the best GPU.

This would be a return to the bad old days of vendor-specific APIs like Glide.
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I didn't realize modern CAD programs were written against Glide.
 
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