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Dilemma

L

Lyran

n00b
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
10
Hi.

My current system specifications:

A64 3500+ ClawHammer
ASUS A8V Deluxe
1024 MB Dual-Channel Kingston Value DDR PC-3200 3-3-3-8
BBATi Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB 256-Bit AGP

And I want to upgrade.

I'd like to get:

A64 X2 3800+ or A64 X2 4400+ (dilemma)
ASUS A8N-E (definitive choice)
Corsair TwinX XL PC-3200 2 x 512MB 2-2-2-5 (definitive choice)
Radeon X1800 XL 256MB or Radeon X1800 XT 512MB (dilemma)

As for the CPU dilemma ... well, it is what it is, I don't know what to get. Should I save money, and over-clock the 3800+ to, say ... 2.4 Ghz (for example, to start with), or get a more expansive but "future proof" 4400+, keep it at stock speeds to maintain its full life span potential, and get the advantages of 1 MB of L2 Cache ?

And the main dilemma here, the GPUs.

I intend to play my games at no more than 1280 x 960 (due to my monitor's limits with Refresh Rate at the mentioned resolution, because higher than that I'd get way too much eye-strain, so I'll stay between 1024 x 768 at 100 Hz or 1280 x 960 at 90 Hz, lower than 90 Hz and I eventually get motion sickness to some extent, it's nothing huge, but it feels strange, and it's annoying).

Technically speaking, I could buy the 4400+ and the X1800 XT, but if I can save money, and get pretty much the same performance with lower-end parts, then I'll go for it.

I know such a GPU upgrade is indeed worth it.

But I'm still thinking about the CPU upgrade. I'd like to do it, since I feel some performance decrease from my 130nm ClawHammer. I presume it's still a good enough Processor.

But going from ClawHammer to Manchester at 90nm might give me more "room" for the future and all those core revisions since the former build (ClawHammer) to this point will surely benefit. It's not like I'd go from Venice to Manchester. That, I wouldn't have upgraded. But from ClawHammer, at 130nm ... it's tempting. Unless you guys explain why I should keep my aging single-core CPU.

But let's keep in mind that the main dilemma here is the GPU upgrade.

Is there really much differences between the X1800 XL and the XT at "lower" resolutions ?

I'm using a CRT, so I am not "limited" to a native resolution. I could play my games below 800 x 600 if I wanted to (just to say). But I do not want to, and couldn't play at more than 1280 x 960.

So I guess paying $820+ (Canadian) for an high-end GPU wouldn't be worth it if I want to play at lower resolutions ?

And how much time should the XL maintain good performance with the next generation gaming coming ? Such as Unreal Engine 3 ?

I'd like to get some suggestions.

Thanks for your time.
 
If you play @ 1280 with AA/AF you won't hardly notice any improvements with a faster CPU because this resolution (especially in the latest games with AA/AF) is GPU limited.
So keep your CPU money in your pocket and go for a XT, it's a no brainer.


So I guess paying $820+ (Canadian) for an high-end GPU wouldn't be worth it if I want to play at lower resolutions ?
Click to expand...

Yes, it's worth it because @1024x768, 6xADAA+16xHQAF, a XT is noticable faster than a XL.
 
Finally, I know what I'm going to do.

I'll go with the XL, and keep my CPU for now.

Next month, or maybe in January, I'll go with X2 4400+.

ATi has yet to release a Dual-Core CPU optimized Catalyst anyway. So, going with Dual-Core now with an ATi GPU isn't the smart move.

But if Catalyst 5.12 or 6.1, or 6.2 ... or even later, comes out with some Dual-Core optimizations, then I'll go get a Dual-Core CPU. Since I don't want to upgrade to another Single-Core. I want to reach the present (not even the future). I do multi-task at times, and also I do some video encoding / decoding. So I'm gonna get Dual-Core advantages. But I don't want to buy Dual-Core now if my games won't also take *some* effect of that technology.

I'm just trying to follow logic.

And once R580 comes out, I might go with it (since I do want to try the high-end market, but I'm not in a hurry to do so).

That R580 comes out in early 2006 or summer, I don't care, but I'll go with it.

And I won't sell my X1800 XL, since that one will then become my back-up PCI-E GPU, in case something goes wrong with any future PCI-E GPU I buy.

How does that sound ?
 
Hehe.

Nah I'm not rich.

I saved for an high-end system since almost one year. But I saved "too much" even for high-end. I try to get one account for "technical stuff that I don't really need", and one for real stuff, clothes, food, paying bills, etc, etc.

I could go for $4500 worth of PC components ... but I won't. I didn't saved for one huge $4500 upgrade. That money is used for increment upgrades. The only real high-end part I'm looking for is, now, the Radeon 580. So, if it's released during summer 2006, then I'll be happy, since I would have had some time to enjoy my X1800 XL for a while.
 
:)

Seriously, if you're going to spring for a new processor anyway, why not just get a 3200+ or something like that and overclock a bit. Spending the money on a 3800+ dual core just to replace it seems like a waste. It won't be until (late?) next year that games and such start supporting dual core so the whole thing seems a bit silly. If you have a specific need for dual core then certainly go for it, if you don't have a need then you won't notice the difference.

I can't see the R580 being that much better than the X1800XL/XT. It will be a little faster, the graphics industry seems to love their baby steps. I just bought an X1800XL, it's a very nice card that will last me at least 1.5 years, maybe more. The XL is really as high end as you need right now, it will do everything you ask it to. 1280x960/1024 is perfect for this card.

As for the motherboard, have you considered the A8N-SLI Premium? That's the motherboard I just bought with the X1800XL, it seriously kicks ass. The heatpipe cooler on the northbridge gets rid of the annoying chipset fan whine and the bundle is a nice touch. It overclocks nice, too. I realize you don't want a SLI board, but it might be a nice investment for the time when the driver hackers figure out how to enable Crossfire on a SLI board.
 
I just arrived from the local store !

Finally. I had some discussion with the seller, and I ended up with a different Motherboard, and a different Power Supply.

He's a good vendor, and he's almost a friend (I buy stuff from that store, and from that seller since 2001).

My original idea for the a new Mobo: ASUS A8N-E

My actual new Mobo now: ASUS A8N-SLi Premium ! :p

My original idea for a new Power Supply: Antec TruePower 2.0 EPS12V

My actual new PSU now: Antec NeoHE 550 ! :D (I didn't even know Antec had just released that series, it's really recent on the market apparently)

And, as expected and wanted ...

GPU: ATi (Built By ATi brand) X1800 XL
Memory: Corsair TwinX XL 2-2-2-5 PC-3200 1024MB Kit

So ... I'm happy, hehe.

Only thing is ... I need to reformat, completely, absolutely, entirely ... argh. Not that I can't. But man that's time consuming (not just the very reformat itself, but the re-configuration of Windows as it was, and the installation of the 10+ games I have, the patches, the tweak tools ... and whatnots). It burns my mind just to think about it.

Oh, and I looked at the X1800 XL, and, quite surprised, it's kind of heavy for a single-slot cooling card, isn't ? Well, I believe it is. And man does that board is long compared to my Radeon 9800 Pro.

Ah ... my 9800 Pro ... memories already. I will miss it. It served me very well until today. But I know it'll go in good hands. I'm selling it to a good friend who wants just a decent AGP system. Farewell my 9800 Pro. I'll see in ... hum ... another virtual life ? Meh.

So right now I'm backing up stuff with Nero, and I listen to some music.

I might take a few screenshots for my own pride ! :cool:
 
It's in Montreal, Quebec, where I live. It's called CIPC.

And as I am typing this, I am re-configuring Windows. I hate doing that, but oh well, I must.

Now I gotta go download and install ATi Catalyst, because this 60 Hz flicker is melting my eyes to oblivion.

I'll be back in a few hours, or tommorow.
 
Eeew ...

I think I got a problem.

I finished installing the basic stuff in Windows, and configured it to some extent.

So far, I installed:

Windows XP SP2 + web updates
nForce 4 6.70 drivers (without the IDE driver, and without Firewall / Anti-Virus)
Catalyst 5.11 with CCC

I ran one 3DMark05 benchmark for curiosity...

And it scored 5443.

I had no anti-alisaing enabled, the mimap detail was set at performance, no anisotropic ... man, now I wonder what's going on.

Usually an XL would score around 7000 according to all the reviews I've seen, I think the lowest was about 6800. So I know there's something wrong somewhere ... but ... what is it ?

Hmmm, maybe the BIOS settings ?

What should be the best BIOS settings on the Premium ? I believe my BIOS version is 1008, but I'll have to verify that again.

And I had a Memory issue I think.

In the BIOS, the Memory was set at 266 Mhz, at 2.5-3-3-5, 2T.

Then, in CPU-z, it showed 160 Mhz Memory Frequency, at the same timings.

So I went in the BIOS, and manually set the whole thing at 333 Mhz, 2-2-2-5 (as it should be), 1T.

Then, CPU-z shows 200 Mhz Frequency, at the same timings.

What's going on ? Argh.
 
Yeah something is up. 5400 is really low.
Like you said, it should score at least 7k stock.
 
:eek:

Oh my GOD ...

What I feared happened.

I decided to take a look at the Processor itself, physically.

Guess what ?

Three pins are curved, not enough so that the pins won't fit in the holes, but curved enough to notice it. Damn ... how did I ... nah, I won't even try to think about it.

When I compare my old 3DMark05 score, to my new one (with my new system), I notice I lost about 1200 points in the CPU score. Coincidence ?

Would a CPU see its performance decreased if a few pins are curved ? Is it even technically possible ?

I mean, wouldn't it just not work at all anymore ?

Geez ... I'm not sure what to do.

Looks like I'm gonna have to buy an X2 3800+ sooner than expected. And that 4400+ s'gonna be forgotten. Damn, I hope not.

What should I do guys ?
 
Try taking a pair of tweezers or very small needle nozed pliers and bend them back. The A64 pins are very soft and will bend back if you're careful.

Montreal, cool. I knew you were in Canada but wasn't sure where. I usually buy my stuff at Canada Computers in Toronto.
 
I have tried to do it. And now the pins are almost placed as they were. With probably a 2% or 3% angle, couldn't say exactly.

The thing is ... would a CPU actually loose performance if a few pins aren't perfectly angled ?

Wouldn't it just not work at all ? Wouldn't it just eventually freeze in the Desktop ?

Because I have no CPU issues. No over-heating, no freezing, nothing.

Only that CPU score in 3DMark05, compared to the old system (I had the very same CPU) ... about 1200 points lost. So ... I don't know if it's coincidence or not.
 
It it's just a slight bend then they may actually be making contact properly, if they weren't then you'd have problems seating the CPU in the socket. Run Prime95 or something like that for a few hours and see if you get any crashes. If not, everything is probably OK.

Have you tried reinstalling the video drivers? Run Driver Cleaner to get rid of any fragments and reinstall. Have you installed .net?

I had problems when I first installed my 1800XL, with a fresh install of XP. I removed the Cats, ran driver cleaner and reinstalled the drivers and now I'm fine.
 
I did what you did with removing drivers (with DCleaner, and I did it in Safe Mode), actually three times.

One after trying Catalyst 5.11 with Control Panels.
One after trying Catalyst 5.11 with CCC, two times.

Right now, I'm on Catalyst 5.11 again, but I only downloaded and installed the Display Driver, and nothing else. I'm now using ATi Tray Tools to change settings.

I'm still amazed by the fact that I have the very same issue.

I might try to un-install Service Pack 2 to see if it helps.

If it doesn't ... then, scrap it, I'm gonna go buy an X2 3800+.

After that, if I still have problems, then I'll try the Memory.

And if it still doesn't change anything ... then it's obviously the Motherboard itself.
 
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