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Digital Rebel vs. EOS D30/60

E

ericlikeseatin

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 5, 2005
Messages
314
Hi guys,

After a year of deliberation and much thinking, I'm looking into moving from my Canon EOS film system to digital but this is proving more challenging than I had planned :(

I want to stick to Canon DSLRs because I already own a Canon 24-85mm, a 50mm f1.8 lens, and a 70-200 f2.8, all which I am very much in love with. Because I am a student, my budget is limited so no 10D or 20D for me, haha. I have narrowed it down to the Digital Rebel, the D30, and the D60.

The Rebel has some glaring weaknesses in terms of its functionality when compared to the othe two cameras (eg: no mirror lockup, no 2nd curtain sync, etc.) My current camera is an Elan IIe and its pretty robust and it would be nice to have some of these features because I use them quite often.

Does anyone know how the Rebel stacks up to the other two, older cameras? Its hard to find articles comparing these cameras because they are from such different time periods. Thanks guys! :)

ps: If you want to see some of my pictures, go here. Eric's gallery
 
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canond30/
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneosd60/

The D30 is only 3MP. I believe the D60 uses the same sensor as the 300D/10D. IMO, I'd say find a way to scrounge up the few extra bucks and get a 10D. A friend of mine just sold his for $800. That's lower than a new 300D, unless you're also looking at buying a used 300D.

There is a hacked firmware that enables some of the 10D's features, but I don't know if it enables all of the ones you want.
 
The cheapest price you will usually find the Digital Rebel Kit is around ~$850 because the retailer wants to make at least a tiny bit of profit (At this price point, profits are quite small). If it goes for less than that, it is likely being advertised/sold at a loss to the seller and you may find yourself in an uncomfortable situation. Be wary. Do ResellerRatings, et al.


OneCall has treated me well so far for my lens. Check out their Canon DSLR's ( http://ww2.onecall.com/About_00001000_25_382_0_1_0_0.htm ) - The Digital Rebel (Body Only) is ~$770. B&H has it for $780. I am very happy with my dRebel purchase through PhotoVillage, but you likely won't be able to get the deal I got; although since you are apparently in NY, you might be able to check Rich's shop out.
 
Mirror lockup you can get back with the hacked 300D firmware, i dont know about 2nd curtain sync. You might be able to get that with the 550ex.

I believe the d60 sensor was enhanced for the 10d/rebel - lower noise, etc.

The shutters on digital slr's are wear items, so you may want to consider that. As well as possible dust on the sensor, If someone tried to clean the sensor it could be scratched.. This would count against a used camera.

One other reason you may want a 300D is the EF-S mount. With the kit lens its the cheapest way to get semi-wide angle. your 24-85 will have the field of view like a ~40mm lens. The 18-55 kit will give you ~28mm, which isnt great, but its better than the alternatives.
 
ambientZ said:
Mirror lockup you can get back with the hacked 300D firmware, i dont know about 2nd curtain sync.
Click to expand...
Do you have a link for this? (download + instructions)
 
Canon's instructions on how to update the firmware can be found here:
http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eosdigital/E3kr_firmware-e.html

Read that before attempting to install the hacked firmware. Read it twice, and then look at it when you decide to perform it. Never turn the camera off while doing it; after the reflashing, it goes into normal picture taking mode so you can format the CF card and use the camera like normal again. The process takes a while, but let the camera do its thing, set it down carefully without pressing buttons, etc. I was scared I might accidentally mess something up, but being very cautious and lucky made it work well for me.



The hacked firmware information can be found here:
http://www.bahneman.com/liem/photos/tricks/digital-rebel-tricks.html


You get ISO 3200, Mirror Lock Up, Flash Exposure Compensation (via Jump button), setting a function to the set button, and forcing AV mode to use 1/200 shutter speed. What you don't get is Fulltime AI-Servo (Continuous Focusing) and 2nd shutter sync.

As far as which camera has better ISO noise, I'm not sure, but I'd think the Rebel is better than the D30/60, although some people say there are differences in color tones or something. I don't remember at the moment. Cheers.
 
Im not sure how familiar you guys are with the Canon EOS system but theres this awesome custom function for some of the film SLRs, its called CF4. What it does is move autofocus activation to the AE button. Pressing the shutter halfway then becomes AE. Although this just sounds like a matter of preference, this CF has been the sole reason why some people have chosen Canon over Nikon in the past. Because you can release the shutter without activating autofocus (and possibly losing the right focus) this custom function is extremely useful for candids, sports, and anything else where things are moving unpredictably. Using the Elan IIe, i always had this custom function activated and many a good shot depended on it.

Haha, I'm not blowing this out of proportion, trust me :) I'm not sure but I dont think the Rebel has this essential feature. Can somebody verify? Thanks!!
 
ericlikeseatin said:
Im not sure how familiar you guys are with the Canon EOS system but theres this awesome custom function for some of the film SLRs, its called CF4. What it does is move autofocus activation to the AE button. Pressing the shutter halfway then becomes AE. Although this just sounds like a matter of preference, this CF has been the sole reason why some people have chosen Canon over Nikon in the past. Because you can release the shutter without activating autofocus (and possibly losing the right focus) this custom function is extremely useful for candids, sports, and anything else where things are moving unpredictably. Using the Elan IIe, i always had this custom function activated and many a good shot depended on it.

Haha, I'm not blowing this out of proportion, trust me :) I'm not sure but I dont think the Rebel has this essential feature. Can somebody verify? Thanks!!
Click to expand...


The Digital Rebel doesn't let you access custom functions. (Although) The Waisa Firmware hack unlocks the Custom Functions Menu, some of the Custom Functions do not work. I was not able to get CF4 to work. Rear-Curtain sync also does not work. AI-Servo does not work, although One-Shot Focus does work.
 
Tim_axe said:
The Digital Rebel doesn't let you access custom functions. (Although) The Waisa Firmware hack unlocks the Custom Functions Menu, some of the Custom Functions do not work. I was not able to get CF4 to work. Rear-Curtain sync also does not work. AI-Servo does not work, although One-Shot Focus does work.
Click to expand...

Wow, all those dont work huh? I guess its settled then...I'll go with the older D60. Unless a new firmware hack comes out, that is :) CF4 and rear curtain sync are too important to me.

Thanks for all your input guys, it has greatly helped!
 
nice photos. I'd get the 10D and here is why:

300D: Nice camera, a little bit light and flimsy, lacks custom functions and a customizable AI focus mode -- you'll want this mode if you want to use your 70-200 2.8 IS for sports (which is what the lens is designed for)

D60: High MP, but autofocus is slow/nonexistent in lowlight. Contains all the custom functions of a standard professional camera.

D30, lower MP, also slow autofocus in lowlight. Contains all thbe custom functions as well.

That leaves the 10D, the 20D is a little expensive. You can find a 10D for as low as most retail-sold digital rebels.

I'd choose the 10D, it will utilize your lenses well, especially the 70-200 2.8
 
Tim_axe said:
Canon's instructions on how to update the firmware can be found here:
http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eosdigital/E3kr_firmware-e.html

Read that before attempting to install the hacked firmware. Read it twice, and then look at it when you decide to perform it. Never turn the camera off while doing it; after the reflashing, it goes into normal picture taking mode so you can format the CF card and use the camera like normal again. The process takes a while, but let the camera do its thing, set it down carefully without pressing buttons, etc. I was scared I might accidentally mess something up, but being very cautious and lucky made it work well for me.



The hacked firmware information can be found here:
http://www.bahneman.com/liem/photos/tricks/digital-rebel-tricks.html



You get ISO 3200, Mirror Lock Up, Flash Exposure Compensation (via Jump button), setting a function to the set button, and forcing AV mode to use 1/200 shutter speed. What you don't get is Fulltime AI-Servo (Continuous Focusing) and 2nd shutter sync.

As far as which camera has better ISO noise, I'm not sure, but I'd think the Rebel is better than the D30/60, although some people say there are differences in color tones or something. I don't remember at the moment. Cheers.
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot fo that info. I'll try that out in a day or two.
 
mdude85 said:
nice photos. I'd get the 10D and here is why:

300D: Nice camera, a little bit light and flimsy, lacks custom functions and a customizable AI focus mode -- you'll want this mode if you want to use your 70-200 2.8 IS for sports (which is what the lens is designed for)

D60: High MP, but autofocus is slow/nonexistent in lowlight. Contains all the custom functions of a standard professional camera.

D30, lower MP, also slow autofocus in lowlight. Contains all thbe custom functions as well.

That leaves the 10D, the 20D is a little expensive. You can find a 10D for as low as most retail-sold digital rebels.

I'd choose the 10D, it will utilize your lenses well, especially the 70-200 2.8
Click to expand...

The 10D is one sweet camera. I got the chance to use it last year when I shot for my college's yearbook. Do you know what is a good place to get the 10D for "as low as most retail sold digital rebels?"
 
I think if you want a 10D from a reliable dealer it will cost you 1000+. In my search I couldn't find a good seller under that much.
 
The 300D is a great camera, especially hacked. You don't get 2nd curtain sync even with the hack and a 550EX, at least I haven't been able to. Don't need it anyway. It's basically a 10D in a case that's easier to break - so just don't drop it!
 
I wish i wasnt so strapped for cash! It would be a lot easier to go for the 10D that way. Perhaps i can sell my entire EOS system and get a G6 or Powershot Pro1. I would need to do more reading and get used to a new type of camera. :confused:
 
ericlikeseatin said:
The 10D is one sweet camera. I got the chance to use it last year when I shot for my college's yearbook. Do you know what is a good place to get the 10D for "as low as most retail sold digital rebels?"
Click to expand...

mostly private sellers on ebay. check buy/sell forums at www.fredmiranda.com and www.photography-on-the.net.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43454&item=3866737844&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43454&item=3866320064&rd=1


THis might also be worth considering

http://www.keh.com/shop/SHOWPRODUCT...digital2&BID=DC&CID=02&SOID=N&curpic=0&dpsp=0

Or if you don't want to break the bank on a body there is always the capable D30 ... about 7 months ago I got one from Ebay for $500 shipped ... now they are down to around $350 if you are lucky. That is about as much as a friend of mine paid for a new Canon SD200!
 
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