Difference between z-5500 and higher end speakers?

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Jospeh

[H]ard|Gawd
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In terms of not loud volumes (PC speakers, a bit more than an arm's length away (1-1.5 arms) from the center speaker) are they the same in terms of quality or is there a reasonable difference?
 
Imho a huge difference. I run two Yamaha speakers with a cheap Insignia reciever from the coaxial on my soundcardless pc. I run the Z-5500 out using a sound card with DDLive enabled and I can totally tell the difference.

The Z-5500 sound flat and lifeless. The Yamaha radiate warm sound and is just a different noise. The only thing the Z-5500 really accelerates at are fps shooters.
 
Have you tried using the built in "music" effect by the way? Because whatever I listen to really sounds bad without it.
 
On the Z-5500 receiver? I run mine through optical so that option isn't available but when I run it through coaxial I only use the X2 stereo option. The "music" setting on the Z-5500 has too much echo for my taste.
 
You need to clarify what you mean by "higher end speakers"? Price range? Looking at a particular brand, setup, etc.?

Because, yes, I would say that there is definitely a reasonable difference in terms of quality.
I can only say this for certain because you left your question pretty much open.
5.1 audio on a $500 budget? Stereo audio?
I mean, the question being that open, I could say that 4 Energy V2.2i Speakers at $1,800 a pair, plus a V2.0Ci Center for like $850, with a 12" Klipsch Sub, powered by a Denon avr-3801 receiver would definitely be a reasonable difference from the Z-5500 in terms of "not loud volumes". Even when about 4 feet apart from eachother and the listener.

Help us help you. :)
 
all creative speakers (pretty much all computer speakers, for that matter) are really low-end speakers. though the z5500 comes with a decoder, which makes it a good feature for the money. computer surround-sound systems are probably only good for college students, where space and money constraints are limiting. it can't compare to high-end music or theatre systems. analog tube amps, electrostatic speakers, etc., run into the tens of thousands, and for good reason. its like you are sitting right there in a concert hall. but unless you are an audiophile enthusiast, a midrange system is the most bang for the buck. the more of the cheap, bass-booming speakers you listen to, the more your ears will be used to (damaged from) it, and you won't (can't) really appreciate high-end speakers all that much.
 
I see thanks for the responses. I'll say a 5.1 system that is around 1000$ or so. Maybe 1500$.
 
vietchuot said:
all creative speakers (pretty much all computer speakers, for that matter) are really low-end speakers. though the z5500 comes with a decoder, which makes it a good feature for the money. computer surround-sound systems are probably only good for college students, where space and money constraints are limiting. it can't compare to high-end music or theatre systems. analog tube amps, electrostatic speakers, etc., run into the tens of thousands, and for good reason. its like you are sitting right there in a concert hall. but unless you are an audiophile enthusiast, a midrange system is the most bang for the buck. the more of the cheap, bass-booming speakers you listen to, the more your ears will be used to (damaged from) it, and you won't (can't) really appreciate high-end speakers all that much.
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The z-5500s are Logitech, not Creative.

I've heard claims of up to 10% THD with the 5300/5500 sets, I've never seen an actual frequency response graph for them, but I wouldn't be surprised. The midrange is probably the biggest difference in my opinion, I simply hear more details with my uncle's dedicated amp/5.1 setup (not HTIB) than I do on computer speakers. Movies in particular, especially the lack of really strong center channels on the Logitech sets.
 
You need to get out of your head that the Z-5500 are even remotely good. They serve a purpose but they aren't worth the $200+ asking price.



P.S I do own them.
 
I use to think z5500s were top of the line (only in the computer enthusiast world maybe) but I since discovered enthusiast home theater systems from reading forums like Avs. The difference is night and day, 4870x2 crossfire to on board video, Color television to black and white hehe you get the picture.
Now run my setup through Denon reciever, cerwin vega speakers and a BIC subwoofer. Worth every penny to go that route over crappy computer speakers.
 
Thanks for the input. I guess I'll be getting a new speaker system sooner or later. I'll probably be spending around 500-1000$
 
Armoured said:
You need to get out of your head that the Z-5500 are even remotely good. They serve a purpose but they aren't worth the $200+ asking price.



P.S I do own them.
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They aren't even remotely good?

Give me an example of what's bad, what's remotely good, what's good, and what's amazing. And no, I'm not being sarcastic. Again, you guys are assuming we are audiophiles here. Elaborate, elaborate!
 
spaceman said:
That much better? lol

How about 4-5 times more sound detail for starters. You will hear much more of the sound than with the 5500s. The list goes on and on.

Here: $500 + shipping and you get everything you need. Even a dvd player and receiver. All very good quality and REALLY good for the $$.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-690
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4-5 times the sound detail? What exactly does that mean? I'll hear more ambient noises? The general sound will be crisper? Bass heavier? What exactly does detail mean?

And so for $500 (with the system you show) I'd have a top of the line sound system, or is that average? Compared to the 5500's, what does that extra $300 give me?

Say I went here
http://www.av123.com/

and bought
http://av123.com/component/page,sho...,com_virtuemart/Itemid,37/vmcchk,1/Itemid,37/

For $1700. Would I see a huge difference from what you just showed, and the 5500's? I'm assuming the 5500's are just in a completely different league, but please explain how.
 
You guys really aren't doing a good job of explaining the difference. All you are really saying is that other speakers at 5 times better and that really doesn't help anyone.

When I went to buy my system for my new TV the sells man did the same thing to me tried to tell me that this $2000 bose system was 10x better than a $400 onkyo system but would provide me with no reasons why it was better. I just listened to them both and the onkyo sounded better to me so I bought them. So if the Bose really are 10X better then they would have to be 1000X better for me to even notice a difference.
 
stevedave said:
You guys really aren't doing a good job of explaining the difference. All you are really saying is that other speakers at 5 times better and that really doesn't help anyone.

When I went to buy my system for my new TV the sells man did the same thing to me tried to tell me that this $2000 bose system was 10x better than a $400 onkyo system but would provide me with no reasons why it was better. I just listened to them both and the onkyo sounded better to me so I bought them. So if the Bose really are 10X better then they would have to be 1000X better for me to even notice a difference.
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The better speakers will be able to resolve much more detail than the computer speakers. They will be much more accurate than the computer speakers, giving a more realistic experience. The amp will affect this as well, but the speakers make the biggest difference.

You'll also be able to drive them louder without distortion. I read somewhere that the Z-5500 are rated at something awful like 10% THD at the higher volumes. I think the general rule is that you should look for .08% and below.
 
The major difference b/w crappy sound and good sound is really simple.

Crappy = you hear noises and sounds but it isn't as clear as to what is going on. The voices are muddy and it is hard to distinguish what is being said. The sound just comes out of the speakers and blends together in a jumble. There is no separation of different sounds. No DETAIL.

Good = sounds realistic. sounds are "seen" in the air b/w the speakers in a layered form. you hear voices and cymbals at the top and bass lines at the bottom with most of the sound in between at different, various levels. Often, it is better than reality b/c there is no background noise to drown out the other sounds. Even movie theaters, for the most part, sucks compared to what you can do in your living room.

So simply, you go from a muddy mess to a clear day with the temperature controlled by the components selected.

Sounds like a load of bullshit I know. Hearing is believing though. The only way to understand the difference is to experience it yourself.
 
spaceman said:
The major difference b/w crappy sound and good sound is really simple.

Crappy = you hear noises and sounds but it isn't as clear as to what is going on. The voices are muddy and it is hard to distinguish what is being said. The sound just comes out of the speakers and blends together in a jumble. There is no separation of different sounds. No DETAIL.

Good = sounds realistic. sounds are "seen" in the air b/w the speakers in a layered form. you hear voices and cymbals at the top and bass lines at the bottom with most of the sound in between at different, various levels. Often, it is better than reality b/c there is no background noise to drown out the other sounds. Even movie theaters, for the most part, sucks compared to what you can do in your living room.

So simply, you go from a muddy mess to a clear day with the temperature controlled by the components selected.

Sounds like a load of bullshit I know. Hearing is believing though. The only way to understand the difference is to experience it yourself.
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Yeah, that's pretty much it. I mean your ears get used to a certain "sound" to some extent, so you're used to hearing certain flaws and such, and it all sounds fine to you. However, step up to "good" sound and you'll be :eek: I was re-listening to my whole music collection when I first replaced my crappy Logitech set, because things sounded so different.. so much better.
 
With that said, how does the system you posted compare with the $1700 one I posted?

In other words, I got the idea: Computer speakers suck. Buy individual parts. So, my question now is, where's the cut off? How much do I need to spend to get great sound?

Is the extra $1200 really giving me better sound or am I paying for arbitrary metals and finishes that really only effect appearance and *maybe* longevity.

I'd really appreciate it if someone showed me a

A.) A really good set, that is it's price because of it's quality, and
B.) A really expensive set that may be high quality, but I'm paying an unneeded premium (perhaps bose, for instance).
C.) A *decent* set that still sounds better than the 5500's but good for comparison.

Thanks.
 
Zetherin said:
With that said, how does the system you posted compare with the $1700 one I posted?

In other words, I got the idea: Computer speakers suck. Buy individual parts. So, my question now is, where's the cut off? How much do I need to spend to get great sound?

Is the extra $1200 really giving me better sound or am I paying for arbitrary metals and finishes that really only effect appearance and *maybe* longevity.

I'd really appreciate it if someone showed me a

A.) A really good set, that is it's price because of it's quality, and
B.) A really expensive set that may be high quality, but I'm paying an unneeded premium (perhaps bose, for instance).
C.) A *decent* set that still sounds better than the 5500's but good for comparison.

Thanks.
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How does someone on an internet forum show you this? Even if they tell you what speakers they think fit in your A, B, and C categories, it doesn't really mean anything unless you hear them. All we can really do is provide you with some leads, then you go about giving them a try, either via a buy with return policy or demoing. I understand this harsh reality as well, so basically my philosophy of buying speakers is to:

#1 - find a maximum price point where no improvements in audio beyond that price point are financially worth the money
#2 - read reviews from more credible sources (people that care as opposed to people that don't)
#3 - buy blindly from places with a good return policy
#4 - test the speakers and see how well I can justify their cost (if they can't be easily justified, then it means that I've probably reached my ideal price/performance point and should stop upgrading beyond this level)
 
Yes. There IS a point of diminishing returns. However, the av123 setup (no subwoofer included btw) IS $1200 better IF you care that much. You will hear a big difference b/w it and the partsexpress bundle. It is about as big a step as from the 5550 to the partsexpress.

As you can see, each step up the ladder costs more and more until it reaches a point of "Is it worth it?" The answer is yes for very few and no to most.

The partsexpress bundle is a great idea b/c it does not cost a ton and will give you an idea of what a real setup sounds like. If you dig it, then you can upgrade. If you are happy with it, RUN AWAY AND NEVER COME BACK!

If you value your wallet lol.
 
Oh and I like these questions. I enjoy thinking of ways to communicate the impossible lol.
 
They were for comparison reasons, and were intended to give the reader a place to start. I found them a hell of a lot better than "Yeah, this one sounds 5x better". Give us some examples so that we CAN go out and see! Sure, I can wonder into a Best Buy uninformed, ask the rep to show me the best set in the store, and walk out with a $3000 set which may be as good as a $1200 set!

That's why I'm on this site. It's a forum with electronically versed people willing to give advice, right?

Cyrillix, give me some examples here. #1 is completely ambiguous. This is why I ask for examples, so I may start somewhere. Which stores are the best for buying blindly, or even just listening? And what are some good credible sources for audio?

Spaceman, it's funny you said they were impossible a second after you read Cyrillix's post. It's similar to the Mojave thing I posted in the OS forum.

If my questions really are impossible, fair enough, but I hope more advice can still be given.
 
Dude, they are impossible to answer. I really DO enjoy trying to communicate such difficult ideas though.

I can only give you the basic ideas. Experience and your own judgment are ultimately all that matters.
 
I went into a frys electronics spent about an hour listening to different setups and found the one that sounded the best to me.

I did notice a huge difference going from my Computer speakers to my onkyo's but comparing my Onkyo's to better more expensive setups I don't notice a difference so I didn't get them.

go listen to stuff if your not impress stick with what you have
 
Ah, but listening to speakers in a store is not the best way to hear them.

The most overlooked, and actually most important, part of listening is the room.

You could have a $30,000 system sounding like ass if it was in the wrong placement and a bad room.

Man, I don't want to go into room acoustics here. i barely understand them myself anyway.

Ok, basically, what sounds good to you in your listening room is what you want. Whatever you buy, make certain that you can return it. Do not be afraid to try several setups until you are happy.
 
I move every year so my listening room changes often so I think listening to all system in the same room is a fair way to get an equal rating on the different systems. But I have noticed change in room changing the sound (just moved into a smaller room with hardwood floors and the sound is crazy different and I like it).
 
Zetherin said:
They were for comparison reasons, and were intended to give the reader a place to start. I found them a hell of a lot better than "Yeah, this one sounds 5x better". Give us some examples so that we CAN go out and see! Sure, I can wonder into a Best Buy uninformed, ask the rep to show me the best set in the store, and walk out with a $3000 set which may be as good as a $1200 set!

That's why I'm on this site. It's a forum with electronically versed people willing to give advice, right?

Cyrillix, give me some examples here. #1 is completely ambiguous. This is why I ask for examples, so I may start somewhere. Which stores are the best for buying blindly, or even just listening? And what are some good credible sources for audio?

Spaceman, it's funny you said they were impossible a second after you read Cyrillix's post. It's similar to the Mojave thing I posted in the OS forum.

If my questions really are impossible, fair enough, but I hope more advice can still be given.
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I would give you examples, but I can only give you examples of what I've heard, which is not very much (only the Insignias and the X-LS Encores, when it comes to bookshelf speakers). Personally, from my experience, slightly toeing in the Insignias has been a good idea. Also, they are only good as near-field monitors. If you sit too far back, they sound muddy. That said, as computer-speaker-emulating-bookshelves, they work very well, and have the kind of clarity the PC speakers generally lack, at a good price. I'd look to avsforum for more examples, since the level of audio experience here is lower (just like I'd direct you to head-fi for more in-depth headphone discussion).

FYI, a $1700 setup is quite out of my budget. I've put financial feasibility for a speaker setup at maximum $700 for 2.1, maximum $1200 for 5.1.
 
Phimp said:
I mean, the question being that open, I could say that 4 Energy V2.2i Speakers
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Oh gawd the Veritas line is so overpriced...msrp is bs anyway...you can find them at retail outlets for $900 lol.

-=Antimatter=- said:
The z-5500s are Logitech, not Creative.

I've heard claims of up to 10% THD with the 5300/5500 sets, I've never seen an actual frequency response graph for them, but I wouldn't be surprised. The midrange is probably the biggest difference in my opinion, I simply hear more details with my uncle's dedicated amp/5.1 setup (not HTIB) than I do on computer speakers. Movies in particular, especially the lack of really strong center channels on the Logitech sets.
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http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/speakers_audio/home_pc_speakers/devices/224&cl=us,en

Sub-woofer: 188 watts RMS (into 8 ohms, @ 100Hz, @ 10% THD)
Satellites:
Left/Right: 62 watts RMS x 2 (into 8 ohms, @ 1khz, @ 10% THD)
Center: 69 watts RMS (into 8 ohms, @ 1kHz, @ 10% THD)
Rear Left & Right: 62 watts RMS x 2 (into 8 ohms, @ 1kHz, @ 10% THD)

Well we don't know if these numbers were achieved with all channels driven or single channel driven. Either way they are reporting output at 10% THD, which is unrealistic, 10% THD is very noticeable acoustically. THD also goes up exponentially which means output differences at 0.1% THD and 10% THD should be negligible. Either that or the Logitech amplifier has 10% THD across the entire power band, which I...don't believe is possible. Either that or the Logitech marketing department doesn't know that 0.1% THD is not the same thing as 10% THD.

http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/anthem_pva2/distortion_outputloading.gif
 
speaker technology is a very complex issue. much more than the other components of the sound system. there is just so much to speakers that when you ask 10 audio experts, you will get 10 different opinions. it is quite difficult to honestly rate one speaker over another. when you get towards the higher end of speakers, it is just a matter of trade-offs. one speaker will give you something the other can't. while one has warmer tones, the other has better imaging. etc. etc.

so, to ask how much better higher-end speakers are compared to the z5500...i honestly don't think you can get one easy answer you are looking for. except that - the z5500 truly sucks! besides, if you let people "who know better" giving you the answers, it would take away the fun of finding out for yourself.
 
astrallite said:
AHHH...aluminum dome drivers...ahh ears bleeding~!! :p
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If they're done right there's no issue. JM Lab Focal uses an Aluminum Magnesium combination for their TNC tweeters which, when used in a good system offers an airy decay. Sounds very similar to NHTs older soft dome tweeters, can produce a bit more bite if you have a system for it. Personally I don't, so I've "downgraded" to a pair of SuperZero XUs, IMO best bang for the buck set out there.
 
I wouldn't know about composites. Aluminum tweeters are the least problematic of the three, since the breakup mode is about at the same frequency as redbook CD bandwidth (22KHz). Mostly its only the younger people that can hear it.

But you can't really avoid the resonances in the midrange frequencies, and both the Veritas (discontinued for ages) and the NHT Classic series (arguably a ripoff--I've heart NHT dealers say Veritas "inspired" the design.) both use aluminum for all of its drivers. I've had Axiom speakers before...sold it within a week...felt like my ears were bleeding. Anyway, both are 3-ways that suffer from massive comb filtering, which forced both Energy and NHT to come up with interesting ways to house/block off the two drivers from each other. In the end it probably wasn't worth the tradeoff (imagine having no choice but to listen to speakers with the grills on...that's basically what you're left with).
 
vietchuot said:
speaker technology is a very complex issue. much more than the other components of the sound system. there is just so much to speakers that when you ask 10 audio experts, you will get 10 different opinions. it is quite difficult to honestly rate one speaker over another. when you get towards the higher end of speakers, it is just a matter of trade-offs. one speaker will give you something the other can't. while one has warmer tones, the other has better imaging. etc. etc.

so, to ask how much better higher-end speakers are compared to the z5500...i honestly don't think you can get one easy answer you are looking for. except that - the z5500 truly sucks! besides, if you let people "who know better" giving you the answers, it would take away the fun of finding out for yourself.
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I think you're slightly missing the point. Though, it's not really your fault as I haven't made myself clear.

When I ask what speakers are better, I want to know what "warmer tones" and "better imaging" mean; I want to know what makes higher end speakers, well, high. As you note, even experts will have varying opinions, so I'm not expecting someone to just tell me "this is the best, period". However, expert audiophiles have experience not only listening to various systems, but ALSO have knowledge on what subs, amps, etc. should sound like (in order to make them higher end products). Yeah see? So, me being new to all this, I don't even know what to look for.

I want to become versed in the differences so that I can make an informed decision. Yes, ultimately it will all come down to what I think sounds great, but as of right now I think the 5500's sound great...so you see where I'm at! It takes knowledge and experience for me to even perceive what great speakers are. Sure, I could do all this myself, but I just wanted some thought to help guide me at first.

Thanks for all your advice and I'll check out those forums you guys recommended to further my knowledge.
 
Zetherin said:
I think you're slightly missing the point. Though, it's not really your fault as I haven't made myself clear.

When I ask what speakers are better, I want to know what "warmer tones" and "better imaging" mean; I want to know what makes higher end speakers, well, high. As you note, even experts will have varying opinions, so I'm not expecting someone to just tell me "this is the best, period". However, expert audiophiles have experience not only listening to various systems, but ALSO have knowledge on what subs, amps, etc. should sound like (in order to make them higher end products). Yeah see? So, me being new to all this, I don't even know what to look for.

I want to become versed in the differences so that I can make an informed decision. Yes, ultimately it will all come down to what I think sounds great, but as of right now I think the 5500's sound great...so you see where I'm at! It takes knowledge and experience for me to even perceive what great speakers are. Sure, I could do all this myself, but I just wanted some thought to help guide me at first.

Thanks for all your advice and I'll check out those forums you guys recommended to further my knowledge.
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I guess one way would be like comparing a photograph of some place, to the place itself ... sure you can see both just the same but do you really get the same experience? With a good audio setup you can appreciate the depth and subtle nuances of your favorite music. The lead singer goes from singing on an MP3 to singing *in your room*, drums go from "click click click" to "oh that's a snare snare hi-hat, wow," etc.

You probably wouldn't believe much of what you read until you listen to your favorite music through a decent setup. Also, if you start reading too much you'll likely get overwhelmed with choices. At some point you need to carve out a budget and go see what the hype is all about with some of the popular brands in audio (mentioned frequently on the various audio forums, for example). Really - that's the best way to understand "the difference." When I gave away my last set of speakers to my sister, she was like "at first I didn't get why you would spend so much money on these, but now I see :eek:" :D

Also, just warning you ... avoid buying lower-end equipment, you WILL want to upgrade ... if you buy better speakers/whatever now, your hunger for better sound will be delayed a bit. My experience, anyway. :p

Anyway, good luck on your quest :)
 
astrallite said:
Oh gawd the Veritas line is so overpriced...msrp is bs anyway...you can find them at retail outlets for $900 lol.
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Ya, my bro picked up the everything I referred to like 8 years back when they were new because he worked at Good Guys at the time selling home theater and high end audio equipment. His 2nd month he made more commission than anyone in the state at Good Guys, so he got some crazy huge discount that month and stocked up and everything. haha
They do sound truly amazing, even after several years, but the price is pretty high.



Jospeh, let us know if you decide to go in-store somewhere and demo some speakers. It'd help if we knew what your opinions on each were.
 
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