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did thermaltake rip me off

J

joethemole

Gawd
Joined
Nov 9, 2004
Messages
759
ok i have a thermaltake pure power 420watt, and i have some major complaints about it.

1. i have 3 case fans tuned down with a rheobus, BUT THE DAMN PSU SPINS SO FAST wehn the temps went up that there really was no point in buying the rheobus.

2. In the instruction manual, it lists all the plugs comming from the psu, and there is a 2 pin fan controller plug. well, my rheobus came with a 2-pin to 3 pin adapter which means i can plug a 2 pin thing on and control the speeds. BUT THE ONLY PROBLEM IS THAT I CAN'T FIND A 2 PIN PLUG COMMING FROM THE PSU.
 
joethemole said:
BUT THE DAMN PSU SPINS SO FAST wehn the temps went up that there really was no point in buying the rheobus.
Click to expand...

an indication that another approach might be necessary
since its venting the HS exhaust
TT arent known for their fantastic derating curve so as the temperature increases its capacity could well drop past what your config might require
thus compromising its airflow isnt likely a good idea

consider getting it its own cool air supply and exhausting the mobo compartment seperately
you have a thermal vs sound problem and creative measurse are likely in order


regarding pins, I dont know
 
Check closely for the 2pin connector. It should be on 1 black wire and 1 red. As for it spinning so fast, how are your computer temps? It also may be overworking itself with no air to spin if you don't have enough intake fans in your computer.
 
shadowbreaker513 said:
Check closely for the 2pin connector. It should be on 1 black wire and 1 red. As for it spinning so fast, how are your computer temps? It also may be overworking itself with no air to spin if you don't have enough intake fans in your computer.
Click to expand...

my comp is doing 45c idle right now. I guess i'll check for the connector later... but even if it was there, would it work with my rheobus considering the psu fan is supposed to be auto controlled?
 
I'm not totally sure as mine comes with a fan controller but it most likely will work. Try switching some of the fans around in your computer too cool your processor off. Many people who complain about the noise in thermaltakes have little heaters sitting 2 inches away from them with their processor. That may be putting out enough heat to keep the psu on high constantly.
 
joethemole said:
my comp is doing 45c idle right now
Click to expand...

SYS or CPU?

and what is the room ambient temperature?

SYS is misleading anyway as its just one spot on the board
I use a Digidoc 5 to map the thermal gradients and hotspots in my cases
by moving around the sensors on a new build
 
Ice Czar said:
SYS or CPU?

and what is the room ambient temperature?

SYS is misleading anyway as its just one spot on the board
I use a Digidoc 5 to map the thermal gradients and hotspots in my cases
by moving around the sensors on a new build
Click to expand...

45 is cpu
 
have you got a sys? and a room ambient?
that would at least give us some idea of the airflow in the case
 
joethemole said:
not all of us have $5000 paychecks.

and my proc is a 2500xpm @ 2.42 ghz
Click to expand...

LOL there are WAY better PSU's for less money than TT's cost. Its not about price, its about value.
 
BossNoodleKaboodle said:
LOL there are WAY better PSU's for less money than TT's cost. Its not about price, its about value.
Click to expand...

Hey, i bought this last summer, and it was the best choice for my price range. You are still trying to convince me to buy a new psu, which i am not going to do. If you don't want to help, stop posting in this topic.
 
BossNoodleKaboodle said:
LOL there are WAY better PSU's for less money than TT's cost. Its not about price, its about value.
Click to expand...

oh yeah, AND BOSS, DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT START ADVERTISING FOR YOUR OWN PSU.

i remember that when you posted in my topic on the audio board :rolleyes:
 
OK play nice

considering that your just now asking about this, its wasnt completely unreasonable to assume it was a new purchase and that the option to return was still available
and well TTs arent highly regarded in comparision to many other makes for the money
so BossNoodleKaboodle was in his own brusque way trying to help
 
joethemole said:
oh yeah, AND BOSS, DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT START ADVERTISING FOR YOUR OWN PSU.
Click to expand...

I'd pimp my PSU, but it'd be overkill for your needs and a waste of money unless you're planning on going SLI or dual proc sometime in the not too distant future. Ice Czar has one, but his rig is apparently similar to mine in terms of electricity guzzling capacity and in our case it's actually a reasonable option.

As for the OP's PSU, my experience with Thermaltake so far is that thier stuff works quite well when loud but really isn't all that great when quiet. I haven't tried thier PSUs yet, and don't really plan to after my heatsink experiences. I've had a couple Volcano CPU coolers. They seemed to work quite well at full speed, but weren't any better than retail sinks by the time I turned the fan speed down far enough to avoid going berzerk.

If you're not afraid of messing with the guts of your PSU you could crack it open and swap the fan for one that you can control w/ the rhreobus.
 
Well I was merely replying to the fact that you don't have to make 5000 dollars a month to afford a good PSU. There are some good quiet ones for about $65 out there with hefty 12v rails. I'd recommend something I bought if it was good. I've bought TT PSU's before and they were trash, so I returned them and got something else. IF you have the option to return the TT and get something better, why not do it? You said yourself that you have major problems with it, so I recommended to get something you won't have problems with.
 
BossNoodleKaboodle said:
Well I was merely replying to the fact that you don't have to make 5000 dollars a month to afford a good PSU. There are some good quiet ones for about $65 out there with hefty 12v rails. I'd recommend something I bought if it was good. I've bought TT PSU's before and they were trash, so I returned them and got something else. IF you have the option to return the TT and get something better, why not do it? You said yourself that you have major problems with it, so I recommended to get something you won't have problems with.
Click to expand...

well i dont have a job, so i can't afford jack. Oh and i swapped the bottom fan with a 2500rpm 80mm. didn't notice much of a difference in noise.
 
caution information overload in progress :p


Ice Czar said:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
here is a great thread about ducting for a PSU
> http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=8450
and some thermodynamics\aerodynamics infor
Ice Czar said:
Lee Garbutt did a push>pull fan mod on a Turbo Cool 425
http://www.leesspace.com/quiet_psu.htm

but do to the design of the heatsinks and the density of the component package
as mentioned above, I wouldnt do the top fan mod on a Turbo Cool

boning up on Fans might be helpful as well
its not just the airflow that is important, but the static pressure
a supply with a greater resistance will benefit from a higher static pressure



Air Flow Vs. Pressure Characteristics
Parallel & Series Operation
Stall of Axial Flow Fans

Basic Fan Laws
How to measure Airflow vs Pressure
How to Achieve Low Noise
Accoustic Noise
EMI
Introduction: Forced Convection Cooling
How to select the right fan or blower
Step 1: The Total Cooling Requirements
Step 2: Total System Resistance / System Characteristic Curve
Step 3: System Operating Point
Click to expand...

here are three basic components to any thermal solution:
the heat transfer interface
(in this case the heatsinks total area)

the heat transfer medium's volume\pressure to time
(in this case airflow, with additional variables like airflow resistance)

and the temperature differential
(where using cooler air has a huge impact)
while the efficiency of a given supply at a given load will determine the high side of a temperature differential, by employing a cooler airstream you have the option to lower the lower side of the differential

a real good computer oriented guide to thermodynamics
General Heat Transfer Guide

Heat transfer is all about temperature differentials. Conduction through materials and convection away from surfaces is proportional to the temperature differential that exists. Basically the thermal resistance of a given solution changes with the temperature differential, which is why thermal solutions are rated in °C/W which leaves that variable ambient open but gives you a formula

The heat transfer through the wall follows a simple equation:
Q=k/L(T1-T2)


We can draw some interesting conclusions from this equation. First, heat transfer is proportional to the temperature difference on the object. If the temperature differential doubles, the heat transferred doubles. Second, the conduction coefficient "k" is proportional to heat transfer. If the conduction coefficient doubles, the heat transfer doubles Alternatively, for the same differential temperature, twice as much heat may be transferred. The final observation is "L". As thickness increases, heat transfer decreases. Alternatively, to maintain the same heat transfer through a material twice as thick requires twice the temperature differential.
Click to expand...

while that addresses conductance, there is a corrallary for convection (transfer from the heatsink to a fluid (air\water\ect)
its known as Newton's Law of Cooling

your pretty much stuck with the heatsink a supply has, but altering the airflow isnt the only tool left to you
a few simple mods and that supply will increase its range, edit > or you can use less airflow and thus quiter fans for the same capacity\temperature
the main objective being not to draw the hot air from the heatsink through the supply and getting it its own cool airstream, you do of course still need to exhaust the case ;)


I would mention that its only under truely adverse conmditions youd likely have a problem, and that, any alterations you do to the case could be likely used for the next upgrade and are infrastructure investments of both time and $$$
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Click to expand...
 
zandor said:
As for the OP's PSU, my experience with Thermaltake so far is that thier stuff works quite well when loud but really isn't all that great when quiet. I haven't tried thier PSUs yet, and don't really plan to after my heatsink experiences.
Click to expand...

Zandor,

Slightly off-topic, but what were your experiences with TT heatsinks? I'm planning on buying one. Shouldn't I?

Thanks.
 
yogiB said:
Slightly off-topic, but what were your experiences with TT heatsinks? I'm planning on buying one. Shouldn't I?
Click to expand...
Their base finishes aren't very good... TT heatsinks aren't bad, but you can definitely find a better solution out there.
 
I must agree that there are PSU's that are just as good as TT, some better that are cheaper.
 
I've also used one and it was thoughtlessly designed, noisy and didn't cool any better than the Intel stock cooler. I wouldn't ever buy one of their products again after the experiences I've had with them.
 
shadowbreaker513 said:
Good but loud.
Click to expand...

How do you mean good? They're ineffecient, they run extremely hot and loud and they're weak at their price point. I paid $80 for my Purepower 480W's and they were all of the things I said.
 
I was talking about their heatsinks.


I've been completely happy with my 480w. Near silent when I turn down the fans, never gets hot, never had a power problem, and durable; I shocked the wire off the floppy because I plugged it in wrong and it still works perfectly. I couldn't have asked for much more for $50.
 
yogiB said:
Zandor,

Slightly off-topic, but what were your experiences with TT heatsinks? I'm planning on buying one. Shouldn't I?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
As I said, they cool well at max fan speed. But it's all fan. The sink is nothing special. It's kinda like putting a 60->80 mm adapter on a retail Intel or AMD heatsink & adding a Delta or a Tornado. Cool well? Yes. Tolerable? No. So I turned them down & they turned into a couple of nothing special coolers. Definately not worth $20+.
I have no complaints about thier fans though. The thermal probes and speed adjustment knobs are rather nice. I've actually got 5 TT fans on order.
 
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