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Desktop speaker setup for ~$200

S

SocceRich20

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 4, 2003
Messages
2,512
Essentially, I'd like to enter the world of basic audiophile speakers and ditch my Klipsch Promedia 2.1's. I'd like to see for myself if all the Logitech and Klpisch bashing that goes on in this forum is justified. I primarily listen to 320kbps music and watch Blu-Rays on my desktop. I do some gaming here and there. I have an Auzentech X-Fi Prelude sound card. I had originally looked at getting a set of Z-5500's for around $200 locally to replace my Klipschs, but I'd like to give the audiophile-side of things a try. What are your recommendations for something in the $200 range as far as speakers + sub go?
 
my recommendation is to hit the search button and do some reading first - there's a wealth of information and topics in this very forum that would give you a ton of useful information if you just took the time to seek it out
 
SocceRich20 said:
but I'd like to give the audiophile-side of things a try. What are your recommendations for something in the $200 range as far as speakers + sub go?
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that's gonna be tough. The lowest price sub that people around here would recommend would be around $100, the lowest price decent speakers would be around $69 shipped, and then you would still need an amp.

Perhaps start with 2.0 speakers and a 5.1 receiver? You can always add-on extra speakers and a sub as you accumulate cash.

Can't think of a decent inexpensive 5.1 receiver off the top of my head. They are around i just can't think of one at the moment. Tip: unlike in the PC world, refurbished audio equipment is highly desirable for those on a budget. You can stretch your dollars better with refurb equipment. Many people would also recommend purchasing used equipment via audiogon or even your local craigslist.

Edit: but yea as Cyclone said, there's a wealth of information here if you poke around, especially for those on a budget.

Edit: Dakmart seems to have some good refurb receiver deals, they're also an authorized Denon B-stock dealer so their Denon receivers will be warrantied and in good shape.
 
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Cyclone said:
my recommendation is to hit the search button and do some reading first - there's a wealth of information and topics in this very forum that would give you a ton of useful information if you just took the time to seek it out
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Obviously, I've done that, and have found a million different opinions regarding a million different situations. Some will say the Z-5500's are awesome, and that audiophiles need to put down the crack pipe. Some will say the Z-5500's are like listening to nails on a chalkboard. I posted this thread to get an answer specifically tailored to my situation.
 
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Zenshi said:
Does it have to be a 2.1 setup and not a 2.0? Also can it be an active system instead of a passive?

At the $200.00 level, one of the most popular suggestions here is the Swan M200MKII.

http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php/p/swan-m200mkii/products_id/80

If I had that budget and that need, I probably would choose the above. But then you are not me so my points are moot. :rolleyes:
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How will the bass capabilities of these compare to a 2.1 set with a dedicated sub?

Also, where can you actually buy the M200MKII's? I can't seem to find anywhere that has them immediately available. Do you run these alone, or pair them with a dedicated subwoofer?
 
SocceRich20 said:
How will the bass capabilities of these compare to a 2.1 set with a dedicated sub?

Also, where can you actually buy the M200MKII's? I can't seem to find anywhere that has them immediately available. Do you run these alone, or pair them with a dedicated subwoofer?
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The audio insider usually has them but they are OOS at the moment. I run mine alone only because there is no real proper way to hook up a subwoofer to active monitors unless they have a line out. Most don't including these. An example that does is the Audioengine A5.
 
Would a pair of these Swans really stomp all over a set of Z-5500's for a college student listening to music and watching Blu-Rays?
 
The swans would stomp all over the z-5500 in sound quality. but the bass will be weak. If its for mostly music then choose the swans. If movies and gaming are in the mix then z5500. Best would be if you can pony up a little more $$ and get a 2.1 system with bookshelf/sub/receiver. $200 is just not enough
 
calvieee said:
The swans would stomp all over the z-5500 in sound quality. but the bass will be weak. If its for mostly music then choose the swans. If movies and gaming are in the mix then z5500. Best would be if you can pony up a little more $$ and get a 2.1 system with bookshelf/sub/receiver. $200 is just not enough
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Concise and accurate.

For music, the bass is more than enough. Stereophile magazine has a nice review on them, just google for it.
 
SocceRich20 said:
How will the bass capabilities of these compare to a 2.1 set with a dedicated sub?

Also, where can you actually buy the M200MKII's? I can't seem to find anywhere that has them immediately available. Do you run these alone, or pair them with a dedicated subwoofer?
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I'm actually selling mine. I've been meaning to put them up on ebay, but just been too busy right now. Let me know if you're interested and if we agree on price etc... I can toss up a more basic auction than I otherwise would just to list them. They're still under the manuf. warranty and I bought a Squaretrade warranty at the time, extending it to 3 years. (Edit for clarification: they were bought in April, so that's manuf. warranty till 4/2010 and ST warranty till 4/2012)

They're really nice speakers and I've broken them in nicely (I never cranked them to max or otherwise abused them). I actually did get a sub to go with them, Polk PSW10, just to fill out the very low bass. They work on the lower-midrange up through treble very well. The bass is servicable for movies. You could get a sub later on if you really felt you needed it.

I'm selling them because I upgraded to a more expensive setup. Honestly, I wish I could keep them for a secondary pair, but I figured their price into buying the new ones.
 
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What sort of subwoofer would you recommend I pair with M200MKII's to bring the bass capabilities on par with something like the Z-5500?
 
Shot you a PM, but for anyone else interested, pretty much anything should work pretty well with these since these have 1" tweeters (treble) and 5" midwoofers (mids/upper bass), there's very little ground that needs to be covered. I cut them off at 75/80hz to let them focus on vocals on up and used a Polk PSW10 for the lower frequencies. To be honest, the sub was mostly covering inaudable stuff that you notice not hear, but there was a slim segment in the audible spectrum that it did enhance. I didn't have it turned up very loud though since these speakers are strong enough that they don't really need massive overcompensation from the sub like small pc speakers do.
 
seemlessthunder said:
Shot you a PM, but for anyone else interested, pretty much anything should work pretty well with these since these have 1" tweeters (treble) and 5" midwoofers (mids/upper bass), there's very little ground that needs to be covered. I cut them off at 75/80hz to let them focus on vocals on up and used a Polk PSW10 for the lower frequencies. To be honest, the sub was mostly covering inaudable stuff that you notice not hear, but there was a slim segment in the audible spectrum that it did enhance. I didn't have it turned up very loud though since these speakers are strong enough that they don't really need massive overcompensation from the sub like small pc speakers do.
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Considering that the PSW10 only goes to 35Hz and human hearing reaches down to 20Hz, I doubt the sub was covering "inaudible stuff". That's a whole 15Hz that you're missing... and the 35Hz of the PSW10 is the lower limit of the dB cutoff. And the sub only has 50W RMS. So... You're actually probably missing alot of audible bass. Probably up to 40 or 50Hz of clean bass.

In other words... Polk HT subs suck and add almost nothing to your listening experience. I still say the Mirage Omni subs and the Energy S(insert sub size).3 series are the best you're going to find for the cheapest price. Particularly on eBay where you can find them for $200 to $300 shipped. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother purchasing a sub. There ARE cheaper, used subs out there that are good bang for the buck, but you will have to find them yourself since used prices can fluctuate. I've seen some good 200W RMS 10" or 12" subs that go to 25Hz go for around $100 used + or including shipping. In fact, I bought one myself. But the subs recommended above reach to 25Hz for the 8"... the 10" and 12" go even lower.
 
I'm selling my Bic H-100 sub here in the for sale section for $175. It was co-designed by Dr. HSU who is a specialist in subs. It's one of the best subs you can buy for under $300, and it's been measured down to 20hz. 12" front firing - 150w RMS - 500w DYNAMIC.
 
Alai said:
Considering that the PSW10 only goes to 35Hz and human hearing reaches down to 20Hz, I doubt the sub was covering "inaudible stuff". That's a whole 15Hz that you're missing... and the 35Hz of the PSW10 is the lower limit of the dB cutoff. And the sub only has 50W RMS. So... You're actually probably missing alot of audible bass. Probably up to 40 or 50Hz of clean bass.

In other words... Polk HT subs suck and add almost nothing to your listening experience. I still say the Mirage Omni subs and the Energy S(insert sub size).3 series are the best you're going to find for the cheapest price. Particularly on eBay where you can find them for $200 to $300 shipped. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother purchasing a sub. There ARE cheaper, used subs out there that are good bang for the buck, but you will have to find them yourself since used prices can fluctuate. I've seen some good 200W RMS 10" or 12" subs that go to 25Hz go for around $100 used + or including shipping. In fact, I bought one myself. But the subs recommended above reach to 25Hz for the 8"... the 10" and 12" go even lower.
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There certainly is some stuff below 35 hz, though I wouldn't remotely call it omni-present or particularly noticable without it (especially comparing to a logitech subwoofer). For games/movies, most people are interested in having strong vocals (mids) and treble and then some bass a little below that, but 35hz is still lower than Logitech subs usually go so while the PSW10 not on par with a $5000 sub, it will get the job done for most people. As I said, you can also go more expensive if you want something that's going to go lower, but you aren't going to get a 25hz sub without spending at least $200 (including shipping). I bought my PSW-10 for $100, otherwise I probably would've given TheSpeakerCompany or an Energy/Dayton sub a try.

If you're used to Logitech, most any subwoofer $100+ will sound fine, since Logitech uses their subs to cover the midrange gap and here you only really to cover a slim frequency with the sub (25/35hz - 75/80hz as opposed to 35/45hz - ~115/150 hz on a Logitech). If you're coming from Logitech, you aren't likely to miss anything since subs that can hit that low cost $200+ by themselves.

Point being, I said you can get a servicable sub for $100-150 that will sound fine with these, which is true. If you want a really good sub it'll cost you $200-300 minimum. If you want something cheap though, an entry-level sub will be ok with these since there's not a massive range that needs to be covered. If someone's trying to build a 2.1 system that sounds reasonable but costs as close to $200 as possible, getting a ~$100 sub is requisite. Obv. if they can afford more a better sub is ideal, but these speakers hit fairly low on their own and aren't reliant on the sub to cover their entire midrange like pc speakers. These plus a sub will cost around net $300/400. $400 is clearly the ideal (pay more for better quality), but $300 will still work fine if that's all someone's budget allows.

You can also get a sub from TheSpeakerCompany for $150 shipped that will hit 28hz if you're interested in something slightly better but still under the $200-250 range:
http://www.thespeakercompany.com/ASW-10-10-Subwoofer-P62C17.aspx

I'm not remotely trying to say that PSW10's are particularly better than other entry level subs or whatnot, just that they're servicable (like most of them) if you're using them with speakers that have full midrange on their own. There certainly are others that will sound better and probably better values, but that's always the case as you pay more money. It's a question of how much you want to spend on a sub though. If someone wants to compromise on their sound for budget, they'll probably notice the least degredation by getting speakers that can smoothly handle the full midrange/treble on their own and a basic sub versus an expensive sub and speakers that need substantial reinforcement from the sub.

For a stereo/2.1 setup, you want mains that can handle the full midrange accurately on their own since that way you don't need a center channel. For movies that's absolutely essential.
 
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Eh... I got my Mirage LF-150 for $100. Reaches 23Hz and has 150W RMS to spare. Pretty amazing deal. I've seen their price at $150 maximum on eBay. I've also seen some used Dayton subs with really nice specs (for the price) go for $100 or less.
 
Alai, those are very good options :). I'm agreeing with you. I'm not saying "get Polk". There's definitely better out there, but regardless of the sub, they're only needed for a limited range when used with speakers like Swan m200mkii's or the Audioengine A5's. I was simply calling attention to the fact that the dynamic is somewhat different. In PC speakers with tiny satellites subwoofers have to cover nearly the entire midrange in addition to the bass so if you're coming from PC speakers you could very easily place too much importance on the subwoofer when really a good pair of main's will get you 90% of the way there. Subconsciously if you're coming from a satellite pc system you're subconsciously worrying if speakers will sound right - which is mostly about the mid's, largely absent in pc systems and the big reason they tend to sound as bad as they do. I'm not saying disregard the sub. Getting the best sub for your money is always ideal, but it's also very important not to over-regard them as they aren't needed for as much in a good 2.1 bookshelf setup as you would see with a 2.1 or surround PC setup. :)
 
I agree with you. But that's what I am saying. Either get a good sub that CAN reach really low and has a decent amount of wattage or don't bother getting one at all. The Swan M200MKII can hit all the way down to 55Hz which is already a large frequency range. You don't REALLY need a sub unless you're watching certain movie scenes or playing certain games or listening to certain musics. And even then, a sub that can't hit 25Hz is not really a sub worth getting.
 
I certainly agree that you shouldn't skimp on a sub if you can afford a better one as well as that the Swans can hold their own without one. I personally found movies/games more enjoyable with the Polk than the Swans alone since it allowed me to cut them off higher (80hz) and let them focus more on vocals so they weren't struggling to reproduce the deep bass. I think any sub will add something to them, even though it won't be massively noticable. It just depends on what frequency you want to reach. Different people care more or less about deep bass. If you just want something that's present and takes a little work off the main's a cheap sub's ok. I'm absolutely not advocating the Polk sub over any other sub. I bought it when it was $90. I simply wanted something to fill in to a little lower frequency and smooth out the deep bass a little. It was the cheapest 10" sub I could find and at the time that was my primary criteria for purchasing it over any of the options you mentioned. Vocals, mids, and treble already were clear and present through the Swans and that's probably 90% of what I listen to. On a budget (as I was at the time) it becomes a question of benefit versus cost). I wanted something to smooth out the bass in movies between 40hz and 75/80hz so the Swans weren't struggling so much in the 55-65hz range that did the job ok and was as cheap as possible.

The Polk definitely serves it job well even if it's not the best. A better one definitely would've been nice to have, but wasn't absolutely necessary. If the cutoff on the Swans were 120hz instead of 56hz, it would be a totally different story.
 
Point taken. I guess it all depends on what the buyer is looking for and what his future audio upgrades are... or when they are.
 
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