Dell U2410 IPS vs Eizo S2433 PVA

sblantipodi

sblantipodi

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I need to buy a third monitor for another configuration.

Maximum budget for this configuration is 700€ equal to 925$.

What you will buy with this budget for all rounding use, some photografy, some videogames, a lot of reading and writing?

Keep in mind that the person that will use this monitor haven't got a colorimeter and it will never use it.

Dell U2410 is an IPS monitor (550€)
Eizo S2433 is a premium PVA monitor (700€)

What you prefer and why?
 
I generally prefer IPS to PVA because in all the good "responsiveness" tests I have seen IPS owns PVA. PVA sometimes quote some pretty good GtG numbers but in the xbit lab tests I have seen they get spanked with some transition times being god awful.

I think most people ignore speed and favour color and contrast but speed is alot more important then folks think. Everything looks clearer and sharper when you have a very fast monitor, IMHO.

Okay for example:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/monitors/display/samsung-sm-f2080-f2380_5.html#sect0

It's shocking to me how some companies try to paint their transition speeds as quite fast when some transitions actually take 80ms! That's really slow..
 
GuyClinch said:
I generally prefer IPS to PVA because in all the good "responsiveness" tests I have seen IPS owns PVA. PVA sometimes quote some pretty good GtG numbers but in the xbit lab tests I have seen they get spanked with some transition times being god awful.

I think most people ignore speed and favour color and contrast but speed is alot more important then folks think. Everything looks clearer and sharper when you have a very fast monitor, IMHO.

Okay for example:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/monitors/display/samsung-sm-f2080-f2380_5.html#sect0

It's shocking to me how some companies try to paint their transition speeds as quite fast when some transitions actually take 80ms! That's really slow..
Click to expand...

This is really true but both monitors have a 6ms GtG time, so probably this factor could be forgotten, am I wrong?
 
sblantipodi said:
The same you usually do when someone speaks bad about your 2490 nec monitor. :)
Click to expand...
You do know that that "old NEC monitor" beats the Dell that you are enquiring about at nearly everything and by some margin too?

GuyClinch said:
It's shocking to me how some companies try to paint their transition speeds as quite fast when some transitions actually take 80ms! That's really slow..
Click to expand...
It would seem that is not all to it. I found a pdf file with some extensive info on the panel that is used in my Samsung monitor because I'm having some problem with the backlight. It's a 20ms, 8ms GtG rated PVA panel, and in the pdf it says the typical response time is: Rising 13ms, Falling: 7ms. Then later in the document, it shows the definition of that measurement:

response0.png


So that actual definition of response time is the time it takes to go from 10% to 90% when the panel is instructed to go from 0% to 100%. Does anyone know why exactly is this the case? I can't think of a reason why they wouldn't just use the 0%-100% measurement but I could be missing something. If they are doing this with black-to-white response time, heck knows how exactly do they come up with gray-to-gray figures.
 
Walker said:
You do know that that "old NEC monitor" beats the Dell that you are enquiring about at nearly everything and by some margin too?
Click to expand...

Yes I know but I'm not interested in that monitor because in Europe NEC isn't so much competitive.
LCD2490wuxi2 costs about 800€ in my country, too much for a non wide gamut monitors so I'm not interested in it for the third rig.

The topic its clear, I don't want to discuss on what is the best monitor for 700€,
I would like to discuss the difference between the Dell U2410 and the Eizo FlexScan S2433.
 
sblantipodi said:
Yes I know but I'm not interested in that monitor because in Europe NEC isn't so much competitive.
LCD2490wuxi2 costs about 800€ in my country, too much for a non wide gamut monitors so I'm not interested in it for the third rig.

The topic its clear, I don't want to discuss on what is the best monitor for 700€,
I would like to discuss the difference between the Dell U2410 and the Eizo FlexScan S2433.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I know. What I meant was, if you really believe the Foris is 10 times better than the original 2490wuxi like you said in the post that Snowdog quoted, you will without a question prefer the Eizo in this comparison as well.
 
Walker said:
Yeah, I know. What I meant was, if you really believe the Foris is 10 times better than the original 2490wuxi like you said in the post that Snowdog quoted, you will without a question prefer the Eizo in this comparison as well.
Click to expand...

S2433 got the same panel but it isn't the same FX2431 monitor, so its not too much obvious for me what monitor to choose when thinking on DellU2410 and S2433.
 
Snowdog, sblantipodi, and every one of you other guys....listen up.

I'm over it.

You guys can debate the facts and even argue the facts all you want, but when it turns personal, calling someone a "fanboy" or any other personal crap, folks are going to start getting banned. Period.

The tenor of this forum is about to change, and if some folks have to take time off or get permabanned to get the point across, I'm OK with that.
 
Walker said:
So that actual definition of response time is the time it takes to go from 10% to 90% when the panel is instructed to go from 0% to 100%. Does anyone know why exactly is this the case? I can't think of a reason why they wouldn't just use the 0%-100% measurement but I could be missing something.
Click to expand...
It's just a standard convention - you'll find it in dynamics, electronics and optics theory. For example the "charge/discharge" rating for a capacitor in a low pass filter (a resistor+a capacitor) is determined by the time it takes to get from a 10% voltage output to 90% voltage output and similarly from 90% to 10%.
It needs to be stated in such a way because the dependency is exponentially proportional. In theory 0 to 100% takes an infinite amount of time (in reality it only takes an extremely long time). As long as everyone agrees on something that makes sense (i.e. the signal-to-noise ratio between a 10% and 90% voltage level is perfectly enough to trigger some events) then it makes sense as a comparative measure.

The graph however is misleading - the rise+fall times appear to be symmetrical, when they are in fact measured not to be.
 
The problem here is that "all rounding use, some photografy, some videogames, a lot of reading and writing" is not particularly demanding considering you won't be profiling your display with a measurement device.

In this case you don't really need to be looking at 700€ displays. If you are willing to pinch pennies into copper wire over the CR difference between the 2490 and the S2433W, you may as well get an EV2333W or FS2331. At least the EV2333W has good factory adjustment and brightness adjustment. It also has a newer columnar pixel structure which is better for text.
 
NCX said:
Eizo Review:
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2010/review-eizo-s2433wh-bk.html

Dell Review
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2010/review-dell-u2410.html

The Eizo is better, but for this price range you can do even better with the Eizo EV2333

Review
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2009/review-eizo-ev2333wh-bk.html

or it's successor the Foris FS2331 which has 10ms of input lag, a better response time but a very limited stand.
Click to expand...

thanks to all for the replys.

How can you tell that the EV2333 is better?
I know it has better black, good deep black, but that monitor is famous to be very unresponsive, as far as I know the S2433 panel is much faster (responsive) than the one mounted on EV2333, am I wrong?
 
sblantipodi said:
thanks to all for the replys.

How can you tell that the EV2333 is better?
I know it has better black, good deep black, but that monitor is famous to be very unresponsive, as far as I know the S2433 panel is much faster (responsive) than the one mounted on EV2333, am I wrong?
Click to expand...

It is noticeably slower than IPS. It needs the highest overdrive setting to eliminate most of the dark trailing. The image is much less stable than IPS. Are you a bad enough dude to buy a C-PVA monitor?
 
Whoisthisreally said:
It is noticeably slower than IPS. It needs the highest overdrive setting to eliminate most of the dark trailing. The image is much less stable than IPS. Are you a bad enough dude to buy a C-PVA monitor?
Click to expand...

Yes I have no problem with technology, PVA/IPS both good tech, I will buy the best one for my actual needs.
As I repeat from what I know the EV2333 and the FS2331 uses the "new" 16:9 PVA panel from Eizo that is has good quality, excellent black level but really bad responsiveness.

As far as I know the S2433 should be much better in this sense.
 
sblantipodi said:
Yes I have no problem with technology, PVA/IPS both good tech, I will buy the best one for my actual needs.
As I repeat from what I know the EV2333 and the FS2331 uses the "new" 16:9 PVA panel from Eizo that is has good quality, excellent black level but really bad responsiveness.

As far as I know the S2433 should be much better in this sense.
Click to expand...

Well, I have played LAN matches of MW against my brothers and I have no real issue winning. I would say it is suitable for playing shooters. Users who weigh responsiveness heavily won't be pleased though.
 
The Foris FS2311 has a good overdrive circuit with no color streaking and only 10ms of input lag vs 20ms input lag and streakingon the EV

The trade off is that the C-PVA panels blow away everything else in terms of image quality. Games and photos will look like they never have before.
 
I'm not interested in input lag but I'm more interested in responsiveness.

From Prad it seems that the EV2333 is one of the worst monitor when talking about responsiveness:
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2009/review-eizo-ev2333wh-bk-part13.html#Responsiveness

We can't say the same for S2433...
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2010/review-eizo-s2433wh-bk-part10.html#Responsiveness

I'm insisting on that because I haven't understood how you can say the EV2333 is better.
:)

thanks for the help.
 
sblantipodi said:
Eizo FX2431 but the monitor I need to buy now isn't for my pc.
Click to expand...

Oh, so you did buy the FORIS. Honestly C-PVA is suitable for gaming. If it were too slow Eizo wouldn't have made a new FORIS with it, and Samsung wouldn't have made an eyefinity product with it. For a second PC and your aims any of the monitors in this thread are fine. If you objective is "I MUST HAVE PRINT MATCHED COLOUR AND PERFECTION FOR GAMES" then the recommendations are trickier.
 
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Whoisthisreally said:
Oh, so you did by the FORIS. Honestly C-PVA is suitable for gaming. If it were too slow Eizo wouldn't have made a new FORIS with it, and Samsung wouldn't have made an eyefinity product with it. For a second PC and your aims any of the monitors in this thread are fine.
Click to expand...

Yes at the end I opted for the FORIS for my home PC and it looks wow.
Now I need a monitor for my brother for christmas, he uses CAD/Photoshop/Cinema4D everyday, he likes photografy and he likes call of duty. :)
 
Buy the U2410 and do a comparative review :D

Hmm, seriously, if you find that you like the Eizo you have now, i think that the S2433 is going to be much of the same viewing experience. I mean, when one is happy with one type of product - why not buy something resembling it as much as possible?
 
NCX said:
The Foris FS2311 does not have the streaking the EV does
http://flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1288694516

You should care about input lag.

Also you aren't understanding how much better the C-PVA panels looks then S2433. The image quality difference is night and day.
Click to expand...

It quite difficult to understand, yes I know that S2433 uses S-PVA, so the C-PVA built-in the EV2333 and FS2331 is better?
Better for what?

Lets try to set some cons and pros.
S-PVA has a better responsiveness, C-PVA has deepest black. What else?
 
sblantipodi said:
Yes at the end I opted for the FORIS for my home PC and it looks wow.
Now I need a monitor for my brother for christmas, he uses CAD/Photoshop/Cinema4D everyday, he likes photografy and he likes call of duty. :)
Click to expand...

Which is tricky because those applications need accurate colour. I would probably buy the U2410 because of its sRGB mode, resolution and good image stability, but I have reservations about potential uniformity / tinting issues.
 
Whoisthisreally said:
Which is tricky because those applications need accurate colour. I would probably buy the U2410 because of its sRGB mode, resolution and good image stability, but I have reservations about potential uniformity / tinting issues.
Click to expand...

I heard about this problems on U2410 and I'm warried for that.
From what I know also the S2433 got a sRGB mode.

Ok, it seems that we are slowly focusing again over the Eizo
but now I have put in doubt.

S-PVA or C-PVA?

@tk-don:
The monitor is not for me but for my brothers, it's a christmas present :)
 
sblantipodi said:
I heard about this problems on U2410 and I'm warried for that.
From what I know also the S2433 got a sRGB mode.

Ok, it seems that we are slowly focusing again over the Eizo
but now I have put in doubt.

S-PVA or C-PVA?

@tk-don:
The monitor is not for me but for my brothers, it's a christmas present :)
Click to expand...

Most wide gamut monitors have an sRGB mode. Only some of them have an sRGB preset that is actually useful. My reservation on the S2433 is that I don't have any information about the quality of its sRGB mode.
 
Read the S2433 and EV2333 reviews again

The EV is superior in almost every area except gaming, but now the Foris is out. The one area where the EV losses to the S2433 is no longer an issue.

C-PVA=deep black level and better screen uniformity. Deep blacks=better color reproduction and a more vivid image. Black will be displayed as black, not grey like on the U2410.

Refer to this picture Grummel took of the Samsung 2333T (C-PVA) next to a 2209wa.
http://h-3.abload.de/img/descent2b5hmq.jpg

The difference in black level=night and day.

The U2410 is the worst panel you can buy for gaming/movies due to the awful image quality, price tag and quality control. Well reviewed TN panels are a much better choice for gaming.
 
NCX said:
Read the S2433 and EV2333 reviews again

The EV is superior in almost every area except gaming, but now the Foris is out. The one area where the EV losses to the S2433 is no longer an issue.

C-PVA=deep black level and better screen uniformity. Deep blacks=better color reproduction and a more vivid image. Black will be displayed as black, not dark grey or bright grey on the U2410.

Refer to this picture Grummel took of the Samsung 2333T (C-PVA) next to a 2209wa.
http://h-3.abload.de/img/descent2b5hmq.jpg

The difference in black level=night and day.

The U2410 is the worst panel you can buy for gaming due to the awful image quality, price rag and quality control. Well reviewed TN panels are a much better choice for gaming.
Click to expand...

Okay, but in this case, we are looking for an accurate, stable image with good resolution.
 
Whoisthisreally said:
Most wide gamut monitors have an sRGB mode. Only some of them have an sRGB preset that is actually useful. My reservation on the S2433 is that I don't have any information about the quality of its sRGB mode.
Click to expand...

Yes, I don't find any reviews that talks about this preset.
It seems that it can be well calibrated reading the Prad reviews but they don't mention if the preset is good enough.

NCX said:
Read the S2433 and EV2333 reviews again

The EV is superior in almost every area except gaming, but now the Foris is out. The one area where the EV losses to the S2433 is no longer an issue.

C-PVA=deep black level and better screen uniformity. Deep blacks=better color reproduction and a more vivid image. Black will be displayed as black, not grey like on the U2410.

Refer to this picture Grummel took of the Samsung 2333T (C-PVA) next to a 2209wa.
http://h-3.abload.de/img/descent2b5hmq.jpg

The difference in black level=night and day.

The U2410 is the worst panel you can buy for gaming/movies due to the awful image quality, price tag and quality control. Well reviewed TN panels are a much better choice for gaming.
Click to expand...

I have read it but I don't find where they tell that EV2333 C-PVA panel is better than the S2433 S-PVA panel.
I'm not saying that you are wrong, I want to know why it is better and where you read it.
From the prad reviews it seems also that the S2433 pass the UGRA test in a better way, if this is useful, I don't know.
 
sblantipodi, it's my impression that you are requesting information about monitors that you can't really verify, so it's useless to make a list of quotes about "which monitor has nicer blacks" if you'll never going to calibrate it, because you'll never be able to tell if it's true.

My advice is, make the decision easy on yourself, buy your brother the NEC, it's proven to be a great monitor. He'll be pleased with it, and therefore you will too!

Best of luck!
 
NCX said:
Read the S2433 and EV2333 reviews again

The EV is superior in almost every area except gaming, but now the Foris is out. The one area where the EV losses to the S2433 is no longer an issue.

C-PVA=deep black level and better screen uniformity. Deep blacks=better color reproduction and a more vivid image. Black will be displayed as black, not grey like on the U2410.

Refer to this picture Grummel took of the Samsung 2333T (C-PVA) next to a 2209wa.
http://h-3.abload.de/img/descent2b5hmq.jpg

The difference in black level=night and day.

The U2410 is the worst panel you can buy for gaming/movies due to the awful image quality, price tag and quality control. Well reviewed TN panels are a much better choice for gaming.
Click to expand...


- in that picture the 2209wa shows a lot more details, so is an unfair comparative.
- You have never used a u2410 but love to bash it in every thread.
- TN best for games because they looks better?, seriously, you cant recomend TN over IPS unless 120hz is more important and like black crush on top part of the screen.. Dont tell me they are more uniform too.
- Do you use the monitor always at night with lights off?, maybe others dont care about that.
 
Bergkamp said:
- in that picture the 2209wa shows a lot more details, so is an unfair comparative.
- You have never used a u2410 but love to bash it in every thread.
- TN best for games because they looks better?, seriously, you cant recomend TN over IPS unless 120hz is more important and like black crush on top part of the screen.. Dont tell me they are more uniform too.
- Do you use the monitor always at night with lights off?, maybe others dont care about that.
Click to expand...

Why do I need to use a U2410?

Contrast=600:1. Any screen under 800:1 starts to display greyish black. I have calibrated and compared many monitors side by side. It's science that the U2410 as medicore image quality compared to most monitors, as the average contrast ratio is 850:1. Add the quality control issues and price tag, we still have a winner right?

Of course people who own them will defend them. They think it's a personal attack when some one bashes something they own. It is not. It is science.

The picture I used was just to give a general idea of the difference in contrast the C-PVAs offer, so when some one see's that a monitor has a 3,000:1 contrast and some one says it's better then 600:1 or 1,000:1 they can see for them selves that it is not just a measured number.

I can recommend TN all I want over IPS panels. In fact PRAD rates many TN panels higher then the Dell U2410.


@sblantipodi

The C-PVA panels are better because of the much higher contrast, every image displayed will look better. Read the calibration report with the measured black values/contrast. Only high end TV's can achieve similar image quality to C-PVA.

Read the ++/- columns as well, then just add ++ for the gaming sections sense the Foris has good motion performance.
 
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NCX said:
Why do I need to use a U2410?

Contrast=600:1.
Click to expand...

Isn't the contrast ratio of the U2410 measured closer to 800:1 by the very same PRAD site that you are reffering to? The ZR24w that you also like to bash at every single opportunity also scores better than that.

You are recommending a TN panel over IPS to a person who needs accurate, stable image for photography work and some gaming. Did IPS kick your dog or something?
 
chapas said:
sblantipodi, it's my impression that you are requesting information about monitors that you can't really verify, so it's useless to make a list of quotes about "which monitor has nicer blacks" if you'll never going to calibrate it, because you'll never be able to tell if it's true.

My advice is, make the decision easy on yourself, buy your brother the NEC, it's proven to be a great monitor. He'll be pleased with it, and therefore you will too!

Best of luck!
Click to expand...

you are quite right :p

Bergkamp said:
- Do you use the monitor always at night with lights off?, maybe others dont care about that.
Click to expand...

yes, my brothers works until late at night, quite often.

NCX said:
@sblantipodi

The C-PVA panels are better because of the much higher contrast, every image displayed will look better. Read the calibration report with the measured black values/contrast. Only high end TV's can achieve similar image quality to C-PVA.

Read the ++/- columns as well, then just add ++ for the gaming sections sense the Foris has good motion performance.
Click to expand...

From what I read on the net the C-PVA is a Cheap version of the PVA panel from Samsung, it has some improvements like better contrast/black but it is also really too slow for all rounding use.
From what I read Foris FS2331 is also really slow and improved overdrive damage too much the image quality so I think that I have choosed.
 
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