Dell kneecapping AMD

juanrga

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For laptops in goes down to cost and platform integration and AMD got a huge issue there and why they in reality cant compete. AMD is too expensive.

Reality is what it is, just as it is for EPYC.
http://www.itpro.co.uk/hardware/30649/dont-expect-many-amd-chips-in-our-products-says-dell

Forums meet reality once again.

Joel has been overhyping the products in a series of biased articles. He now has to start looking for excuses, conspiracies,... to justify their readers why things aren't like he said.
 

ecmaster76

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For laptops in goes down to cost and platform integration and AMD got a huge issue there and why they in reality cant compete. AMD is too expensive.

Reality is what it is, just as it is for EPYC.
http://www.itpro.co.uk/hardware/30649/dont-expect-many-amd-chips-in-our-products-says-dell

Forums meet reality once again.
:confused: :rolleyes:
Too expensive before or after the Intel "marketing funds" Dell gets? In no world are AMD consumer parts more expensive than an Intel equivalent.
 

Gasaraki_

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https://www.extremetech.com/computi...-laptops-crippled-compared-intel-counterparts

I thought it was an interesting read.
I guess its nothing new, when I was going to buy a new computer years ago (I put together my own in the end) it was a similar situation, less aggressive, but the same idea.

That article is so stupid.

1. Dell lets you customize machines with whatever you want in it.
2. Companies prices products to make money. If the AMD chips cost more, they have to price the whole product more or cut back on other areas to keep prices low.
3. Dell is not going to spend time and money to design a laptop or desktop around an AMD processor then on purpose price it so it never sells.
 

Uvaman2

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That article is so stupid.

1. Dell lets you customize machines with whatever you want in it.
2. Companies prices products to make money. If the AMD chips cost more, they have to price the whole product more or cut back on other areas to keep prices low.
3. Dell is not going to spend time and money to design a laptop or desktop around an AMD processor then on purpose price it so it never sells.
Yes, i believe they will. Can't even get ssd on AMD according to the article.
 

OrangeKhrush

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For laptops in goes down to cost and platform integration and AMD got a huge issue there and why they in reality cant compete. AMD is too expensive.

Reality is what it is, just as it is for EPYC.
http://www.itpro.co.uk/hardware/30649/dont-expect-many-amd-chips-in-our-products-says-dell

Forums meet reality once again.

The overprice is from Dell and it reeks of their collusion with Intel, they are marketing a sub $100 2/4 APU in the 4/4 price range, they are just overpricing by mark up. The Inspiron 17 is 680 dollars for no SSD and 4GB of RAM, the Acer Swift 3 comes with a beefier 2500U, 8GB RAM, SSD, HD and full 1920x1080 resolution for 700 dollars. Dell has been in Intels pocket and payroll for a very long time, this is to avoid the anti competitive gaze however it is doing it by pricing the product beyond reason.

Dell will get hit hard with negative news, now everyone knows what they are doing.
 

gigaxtreme1

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Might get them in the crosshairs of the DOJ too if Kyle's story about NVIDIA GPP program turns into the shitstorm that it looks like it will.
 

OrangeKhrush

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Might get them in the crosshairs of the DOJ too if Kyle's story about NVIDIA GPP program turns into the shitstorm that it looks like it will.

All I can say is Kyle Bennett has a massive pair of cohunes, I respect that and finally a person in a position of knowledge standing up for the consumer interests. I wonder if he will be as villainised by the fanboys in the same way Jim (adoredTV) is whenever he speaks out about business practices and ethics.
 

sirmonkey1985

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All I can say is Kyle Bennett has a massive pair of cohunes, I respect that and finally a person in a position of knowledge standing up for the consumer interests. I wonder if he will be as villainised by the fanboys in the same way Jim (adoredTV) is whenever he speaks out about business practices and ethics.

Kyle has before.. all you have to do is dig through the Intel, amd, and Nvidia subreddit.. the shit people pull out of their ass to try and discredit Kyle is hilarious.
 

juanrga

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The overprice is from Dell and it reeks of their collusion with Intel, they are marketing a sub $100 2/4 APU in the 4/4 price range, they are just overpricing by mark up.

First, where are the official prices for AMD U APUs?

Second, sales volume does matter as well. It is not the same to order 1000 chips than 10000; one gets discounts for larger volume orders.
 
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Dermac

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First, where are the official prices for AMD U APUs?

Second, sales volume does matter as well. It is not the same to order 1000 chips than 10000; one gets discounts for larger volume orders.

First, who cares, the price they are paying has little to no effect on what a consumer will pay for the APU, if you really need to know, ask Dell as they have apparently bought some.

Second, who cares, the consumer gives little more than half a shit about how many APU's Dell has procured.

What the consumer cares about is how much they are paying for a specific product. If a consumer can see that Dell is selling products where the AMD variant is consistently more expensive than the Intel variant, that consumer should buy the Intel product or just dump Dell and get a more reasonable priced AMD system from Acer/HP and be done with it. If Dell doesn't want to sell AMD computers, my feeling is that we should listen and not buy them from Dell, their competitors will gladly accept the money you were going to give Dell.
 

juanrga

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First, who cares, the price they are paying has little to no effect on what a consumer will pay for the APU, if you really need to know, ask Dell as they have apparently bought some.

Second, who cares, the consumer gives little more than half a shit about how many APU's Dell has procured.

People making claims about Dell would care to back up their accusations with data.
 

Dermac

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People making claims about Dell would care to back up their accusations with data.

My statements are not about Dell, they are about how consumers could/should perceive Dell (or any other company for that matter.) The consumer doesn't care about nothing more than the product and how much it costs, underlining production costs, labor costs, part costs, are irrelevant to the consumer, and my statements are about the consumer (not Dell.) Furthermore, I made no accusations about Dell, you did. So how much does Dell pay for their AMD APU's, in your post you seem to know.
 

juanrga

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My statements are not about Dell, they are about how consumers could/should perceive Dell (or any other company for that matter.) The consumer doesn't care about nothing more than the product and how much it costs, underlining production costs, labor costs, part costs, are irrelevant to the consumer, and my statements are about the consumer (not Dell.) Furthermore, I made no accusations about Dell, you did. So how much does Dell pay for their AMD APU's, in your post you seem to know.

Amusing attempt to rewrite the history. I didn't make any accusation about Dell. Other people did. And I am querying those people to support their accusations with data. Still awaiting for the data...
 

Dermac

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First, where are the official prices for AMD U APUs?

Second, sales volume does matter as well. It is not the same to order 1000 chips than 10000; one gets discounts for larger volume orders.
First, who cares, the price they are paying has little to no effect on what a consumer will pay for the APU, if you really need to know, ask Dell as they have apparently bought some.

Second, who cares, the consumer gives little more than half a shit about how many APU's Dell has procured.

What the consumer cares about is how much they are paying for a specific product. If a consumer can see that Dell is selling products where the AMD variant is consistently more expensive than the Intel variant, that consumer should buy the Intel product or just dump Dell and get a more reasonable priced AMD system from Acer/HP and be done with it. If Dell doesn't want to sell AMD computers, my feeling is that we should listen and not buy them from Dell, their competitors will gladly accept the money you were going to give Dell.

Ok, let me rephrase then. I don't care about how much Dell pays for their parts. I also don't care how much any company pays for their bits and bobs to make their offerings. What I do care about is the specifications of said offering and how much that offering costs. So if Dell prices a lower spec AMD system the same as the higher spec Intel system, the simple answer for me is to not buy from Dell since ASUS and HP offer higher spec AMD system for the same relative price. Also, I wouldn't buy that single channel Lenovo offering as well for the same reason. Since, allegedly, Dell is in their business to make money, they won't be getting any of mine.
 

Hagrid

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So Intel pays kickbacks or has a deal with Dell? Nothing new?
AMD more expensive than Intel? Now that reeks of something fishy.
 

Mega6

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What makes you think they are selling at a loss? Intel has their own fabs, but you knew that.
so what makes you think they are not? I don't think Intel has a superior process to be more efficient than AMD with Global Foundries and it's other fab partners currently.
 

DooKey

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so what makes you think they are not? I don't think Intel has a superior process to be more efficient than AMD with Global Foundries and it's other fab partners currently.

I don't know one way or the other and neither do you. However, since AMD has to pay GF fab fees it's easy to see how AMD might be paying more for the same silicon real estate.
 

Factum

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What makes you think they are selling at a loss? Intel has their own fabs, but you knew that.

The finacial numbers will tell the story later (I doubt Intel sell at a loss....their stockholders wouldn't like that)....Intel like it's ~60% margins
 

Mega6

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The finacial numbers will tell the story later (I doubt Intel sell at a loss....their stockholders wouldn't like that)....Intel like it's ~60% margins
you don't understand dumping. it's not in the ledger under "hey auditor - look here is the sales loss from dumping and putting AMD out of business!" ===>
don't be naive.
 

Factum

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you don't understand dumping. it's not in the ledger under "hey auditor - look here is the sales loss from dumping and putting AMD out of business!" ===>
don't be naive.

You got anything but buthurt?
If not...I will await the financials with data...your words hold no value to me without documentation.
 

tungt88

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Kyle has before.. all you have to do is dig through the Intel, amd, and Nvidia subreddit.. the shit people pull out of their ass to try and discredit Kyle is hilarious.

Lots of petty anger towards Kyle on the various YouTube computer hardware channels (comments section) as well; lots of fanboys/dreamers there with hurt feelings.
 

Mega6

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Nope, you spread FUD like it's facts....bye, bye.

Your opinion is fact and my opinion is fud. Hypocritical a bit? Well Intel has huge coffers. So you are saying apparently, if a corporation makes money on the corporate books - it can't possibly be dumping. History has proven this wrong, that's why there are andi-dumping laws. And Intel has never acted in a corporately responsible manner, especially when it comes to AMD. Go review the court cases and history.
 

juanrga

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Your opinion is fact and my opinion is fud. Hypocritical a bit? Well Intel has huge coffers. So you are saying apparently, if a corporation makes money on the corporate books - it can't possibly be dumping. History has proven this wrong, that's why there are andi-dumping laws. And Intel has never acted in a corporately responsible manner, especially when it comes to AMD. Go review the court cases and history.

Oh yes, because AMD has never never been found guilty in the Court.

I see people continues discussing prices here, if X is "more expensive than" Y, if there is "dumping" or not... still no one has given an answer to my question in #12.
 

Dermac

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Oh yes, because AMD has never never been found guilty in the Court.

I see people continues discussing prices here, if X is "more expensive than" Y, if there is "dumping" or not... still no one has given an answer to my question in #12.

Ask Dell, not people not working for Dell.
 

cjcox

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Right or wrong, this is typical. And one of my concerns about AMDs Ryzen comeback. Let's see what happens.

The "market" in general is making "phone" stupid mistakes with regards to their designs (that is, they're designing laptops as if they were phones). What that is doing is making it more expensive to use existing devices with the laptop. While that is somewhat of a problem with phones, it's a much bigger problem in the laptop space and could anger a lot of people and make a lot of working hardware obsolete or somewhat cost prohibitive. That's a more "general" comment, not necessarily a slam against CPU choice by vendors... just saying they're already on the "idiot" bandwagon....
 

Pieter3dnow

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I ask to the people is discussing pricing of the chips. I ask to the people has made accusations against Dell. As I explained you before...


Somehow, Dell managed to find an awful lot of breathing room to upgrade those Intel SKUs, and not nearly so much upgrading the same AMD products. Once again, we’ve got a vendor with AMD products supposedly on the board, only to discover they’re designed to not be nearly as attractive as their Intel counterparts, for reasons that have nothing to do with the capabilities of the SoCs that power them or the prices charged by the smaller competitor.

You can buy at least a 128GB SSD in the Intel system starting at $850 or 256GB + 2TB of HDD space for $1,200. You can’t buy an AMD system with an SSD at all. Evidently, only Intel owners could ever want relief from cutting-edge HDD performance, circa 1994.

Dell lists the same starting weight for its Intel laptops with or without the dGPU as 6.15 pounds, while the AMD systems all start at 6.55 pounds. No explanation for the nearly half-pound difference is given.

The low-end Radeon 530 dGPU in the Intel systems may not be necessary in the AMD APU systems, at least not with the Ryzen 5 2500U. But Dell found a way to cover the cost of a more powerful CPU, 128GB SSD, and Radeon 530 when moving from $600 to $850 for the Intel system (+$250), along with a resolution bump from 1600×900 to 1920×1080. It could only manage a faster APU and an extra 8GB of DDR4-2400 when bumping up the Ryzen system’s price by $220.

Now the article gives you enough information. And can you provide us with valid links for the article to be false ?
 

Formula.350

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This is just the same nonsense all over again as it was with my HP ENVY X360 when it came out in 2016 :rolleyes:
Screen:
Intel model? 4K Screen option
AMD model? 1080p is max, as I guess only Intel folk could want higher resolution, since it's surely not a weaker IGP (though, pleasantly surprised to find out it has FreeSync [40-60Hz], despite not mentioned ANYwhere).

RAM:
Intel model? Dual Slots
AMD model? Single Slot, no option to have the onboard IC provisioning populated; thus, forever stuck in Single Channel, Unganged mode (yes, it's running in Dual Channel configuration, which cannot be changed in the BIOS)

Storage:
Intel model? HDD+SSD (m.2)
AMD model? If you buy the better FX-9800P, only HDD. If you buy the lesser A12 model, HDD+SSD. Difference in motherboard? Nope! My board has the silkscreening and I think even SMD parts, but lacks the physical m.2 socket!


Nothing in that is AMD's fault, given AMD's test platform to show off Carrizo+DDR4 had dual channel with SSD.
 

Uvaman2

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This is just the same nonsense all over again as it was with my HP ENVY X360 when it came out in 2016 :rolleyes:
Screen:
Intel model? 4K Screen option
AMD model? 1080p is max, as I guess only Intel folk could want higher resolution, since it's surely not a weaker IGP (though, pleasantly surprised to find out it has FreeSync [40-60Hz], despite not mentioned ANYwhere).

RAM:
Intel model? Dual Slots
AMD model? Single Slot, no option to have the onboard IC provisioning populated; thus, forever stuck in Single Channel, Unganged mode (yes, it's running in Dual Channel configuration, which cannot be changed in the BIOS)

Storage:
Intel model? HDD+SSD (m.2)
AMD model? If you buy the better FX-9800P, only HDD. If you buy the lesser A12 model, HDD+SSD. Difference in motherboard? Nope! My board has the silkscreening and I think even SMD parts, but lacks the physical m.2 socket!


Nothing in that is AMD's fault, given AMD's test platform to show off Carrizo+DDR4 had dual channel with SSD.
Exactly. I noticed this long ago last time I priced an HP AMD. Obviously Dell is the same, although it seems a bit more agressive than what I remember from HP long ago. Your example is pretty bad though.
 

Uvaman2

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People making claims about Dell would care to back up their accusations with data.
What data? You mean more than what the article says.. like in proving that they are doing this with the intent to harm AMD? That would take court orders, and a shit load of time, you know that. I take it at face value, and its fairly obvious to me what is going on.
 

bobzdar

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I'm not sure what Dell is thinking with the 17" version...

But the 15" version looks pretty good:
http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/5000-series/new-15-amd/spd/inspiron-15-5575-laptop

r7 2700u, 16gb 2400 ram, 512gb ssd for $929 - $70 more than the swift 3 but with double the ram and hdd. That's the highest spec ryzen laptop I've seen, the swift 3 and hp envy are only 8gb models, and the hp only comes with the 2500u. If this is the 25w 2700u, it could be the one to get. I haven't seen it announced anywhere, just happened to be looking around on their site and found it. Not sure why they cripped the 17" laptop, but they don't appear to have done it with the 15", quite the opposite.

Edit: New 13" ryzen 2n1's as well, appear to be uncrippled and same/cheaper than intel counterparts.

http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/7000-series/new-13-2-in-1-amd/spd/inspiron-13-7375-2-in-1-laptop
 
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Pieter3dnow

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I'm not sure what Dell is thinking with the 17" version...

But the 15" version looks pretty good:
http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/5000-series/new-15-amd/spd/inspiron-15-5575-laptop

r7 2700u, 16gb 2400 ram, 512gb ssd for $929 - $70 more than the swift 3 but with double the ram and hdd. That's the highest spec ryzen laptop I've seen, the swift 3 and hp envy are only 8gb models, and the hp only comes with the 2500u. If this is the 25w 2700u, it could be the one to get. I haven't seen it announced anywhere, just happened to be looking around on their site and found it. Not sure why they cripped the 17" laptop, but they don't appear to have done it with the 15", quite the opposite.

Edit: New 13" ryzen 2n1's as well, appear to be uncrippled and same/cheaper than intel counterparts.

http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/7000-series/new-13-2-in-1-amd/spd/inspiron-13-7375-2-in-1-laptop

Nice find, the 13 inch version looks like a winner compared with the Lenovo ideapad 720S not allowing ram upgrades and the price is great as well.
 
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