Dell Declares the PC 'Undead,' Windows 8.1 Starts to Shine

WaltC said:
If you bought 8.0 you'll be able to download an 8.1 .iso free of charge direct from Microsoft--like the Technet and MSDN .iso's already released (same code.) Running the .iso directly from Win8 you will automatically upgrade to 8.1 while preserving all of your programs and applications, regardless of where they came from. You will activate 8.1 with your original 8.0 key. If you didn't buy 8.0 but you buy 8.1 separately you will be issued a new key, of course.

If you were crazy enough to skip the 8.0 Pro version when you could download the .iso direct from Microsoft for $39.99, and you are running Win7 or <, you'll have to buy an 8.1 .iso (or disk) for full pop and will not be able to upgrade from Win7 (unless Microsoft changes something.) If you have a lot of stuff installed that you don't fancy reinstalling, I'd look for a copy of 8.0 and buy that--because you *can* upgrade from Win7 to 8.0, and once you've done that, then download 8.1 for free and everything will smoothly upgrade to 8.1 with you being forced to reinstall nothing.

Since Microsoft allowed for upgrades from Win7 when it shipped 8.0, it seems bizarre that 8.1 won't also allow for an upgrade from Win7. It could be that is a temporary code stipulation that will change on October 18th, when not just Technet and MSDN developers are running 8.1 but everyone will be able to run 8.1. We'll see.
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This is pretty much what I've heard, although due to the issues people have had with Media Center license keys conflicting with 8.1 some people have speculated an updated key for 8.1... though those issues may just disappear when 8.1 goes fully live on the activation servers.

Personally I would never, ever do an "upgrade" or recommend one. They may be much less problematic then they once were, but they still tend to cause random glitches that may not present themselves immediately and be a bitch to track down later...

Which is why it's nice that 8.1 ISOs are doing away with the upgrade vs. full edition distinctions... no more need wipe the drive and then install Win7 only to nuke it once the Win8 setup detects you qualify for an "upgrade."
 
This is good news. I could not care less about Windows but if that's the reason the PC is declared "undead" then I'm happy. Not that Dell is the only authority on this but when a major company like Dell makes a statement like this I'm sure it has some influence. For the past few years it seems the industry has been trying to kill the PC. Hopefully this will stop and the PC will rise again.

Also not sure why people are hating on Dell, they're actually fairly decent. Maybe not top of the line but they seem to have the best price/quality balance. Their corporate support is actually pretty good too. Unless all this has changed, I've been out of the loop for a few years now as far as IT goes.
 
BryanSTG said:
They used to re-arrange the standard atx pins purposely just the screw people over. Also, they used to change the motherboard dimensions so that nothing would line up in a standard atx case. I'd say that makes them harder and more annoying to upgrade than other OEMs.
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I notice you use the word "used to" rather than the word "currently" (my older Dells had many of the things you mentioned but the newer Dells do not seem to have as much of a customized/proprietary setup) ... you are also referring to desktop elements when that is a less important part of the PC market now ... All 5 of the top OEMs (Lenovo, HP, Dell, Acer, Asus) are good companies ... Dell is also competitive in other areas ... their monitors are very competitive and their servers and Blades do well in the market as well ... their issue that forced them to go private was that they didn't make enough profit (they were not losing money and they are still a multi-Billion dollar corporation) :cool:
 
Red Squirrel said:
Also not sure why people are hating on Dell, they're actually fairly decent. Maybe not top of the line but they seem to have the best price/quality balance. Their corporate support is actually pretty good too. Unless all this has changed, I've been out of the loop for a few years now as far as IT goes.
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This was covered earlier, are you after round #2?
I wouldnt have answered it the first time if someone didnt ask why the Dell hate.
Its not hate anyway, its a dislike.
 
I hope that becomes a trend, the market is the stock market is flooded with every company down to your gardener trying to ipo...
 
Nenu said:
This was covered earlier, are you after round #2?
I wouldnt have answered it the first time if someone didnt ask why the Dell hate.
Its not hate anyway, its a dislike.
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So if Dell is the unpopular kid ... which of the top 5 OEMs do you prefer ... obviously Lenovo and HP do better than Dell and Acer and Asus do worse (in terms of revenue) ... All except for HP are primarly laptop OEMs (not desktop)
 
This thread isnt about picking on Dell and not others, its about Dell.
 
kbrickley said:
I notice you use the word "used to" rather than the word "currently" (my older Dells had many of the things you mentioned but the newer Dells do not seem to have as much of a customized/proprietary setup) ... you are also referring to desktop elements when that is a less important part of the PC market now ... All 5 of the top OEMs (Lenovo, HP, Dell, Acer, Asus) are good companies ... Dell is also competitive in other areas ... their monitors are very competitive and their servers and Blades do well in the market as well ... their issue that forced them to go private was that they didn't make enough profit (they were not losing money and they are still a multi-Billion dollar corporation) :cool:
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They lost a lot of trust after pulling shenanigans like this for years and years, leaving a bad impression on potential repeat customers. I guess you could say they sabotaged their own brand name and image, which is why people dislike them now; they can't be trusted not to do it again.
 
Dell is #1 in monitors!

I like the idea of a zombie computer. Not sure it's the best analogy for Dell to be using.
 
BryanSTG said:
They lost a lot of trust after pulling shenanigans like this for years and years, leaving a bad impression on potential repeat customers. I guess you could say they sabotaged their own brand name and image, which is why people dislike them now; they can't be trusted not to do it again.
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The future of the consumer market is Laptops (which I don't think they are that disliked in) and Tablets (which everybody but Apple is still weak in) ... the desktop market for consumers is all but dead unless the Steambox or SFF PC can revive it (and I won't hold my breath for the Walking Dead effect in that segment) ... for Enterprise (which is where they should be focused anyway) Dell is still very respected and only the Enterprise market for PCs is continuing to grow (it is the consumer PC market that is falling faster than a turkey thrown from a helicopter ;) ) ... personally I think Dell would be best served abandoning the consumer market completely and focusing on their strength (Enterprise) ... I thought that is why they went private, so they could do exactly that ... consumers make very poor customers compared to business :cool:
 
d_stilgar said:
Dell is #1 in monitors!

I like the idea of a zombie computer. Not sure it's the best analogy for Dell to be using.
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You mean Dell buys monitors from some vendor and then sells them under Dell brand.

What I find really weird is that Dell does not have anything to gain from this due to them being no longer listed.

So Windows 8.1 now comes with folks a bit more used to the new interface and it has improvements that address many of the things which really irritated a lot of users. Dell’s products are designed specifically to make Windows 8.1 sing. Strong industrial design, incredibly beautiful high resolution touch screens, strong battery life, light weight and attractive prices.
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The problem is that MS launches an attempt at an Operating System and fails the 1st time around and suddenly Dell says this , how can such a failure not ring bells at Dell if the damn OS was that good everyone would have a touch screen by now.

Dell is sounding like a broken record, Stuck in the past rekindling older victories where Dell couldn't do anything wrong.
 
Dell buys panels and puts them into their monitors, same with Apple. Dell makes amazing monitors.
 
Pieter3dnow said:
The problem is that MS launches an attempt at an Operating System and fails the 1st time around and suddenly Dell says this , how can such a failure not ring bells at Dell if the damn OS was that good everyone would have a touch screen by now.
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But as Windows tablets and touch devices get cheaper more will be sold. Compare the number of and pricing of Windows devices this year compared to last, big difference. For instance there were no 8" $300 Windows 8 devices last year. Plus Bay Trail should be much faster than Clover Trail. I understand that there are a lot of Windows 8 haters, but when the devices are twice as fast and half the price as last year they are going to sell better. How much of course is yet to be determined.
 
Trimlock said:
Dell buys panels and puts them into their monitors, same with Apple. Dell makes amazing monitors.
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Dell doesn't make anything. They probably designed the pastic casing for the monitor but not the monitor itself.
 
sanitarium16 said:
Windows 8 is terrible. 8.1 will do nothing to fix it. When MS gets their head out of their *** then the PC will become "undead"
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Wished you had factual claims to backup what you're saying.

As for myself, I am enjoying Win8 on my desktop and tablet.
 
heatlesssun said:
But as Windows tablets and touch devices get cheaper more will be sold. Compare the number of and pricing of Windows devices this year compared to last, big difference. For instance there were no 8" $300 Windows 8 devices last year. Plus Bay Trail should be much faster than Clover Trail. I understand that there are a lot of Windows 8 haters, but when the devices are twice as fast and half the price as last year they are going to sell better. How much of course is yet to be determined.
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Wishful thinking more then anything else. Temash is a better product then Bay Trail and it will never be able to get of the ground because nothing changed in Windows 8.1 it is Windows it is bloatware and it fails when there is competition.

Now if only the OS was twice as fast now that would have some merit but you guessed it :)
 
Pieter3dnow said:
Wishful thinking more then anything else. Temash is a better product then Bay Trail and it will never be able to get of the ground because nothing changed in Windows 8.1 it is Windows it is bloatware and it fails when there is competition.

Now if only the OS was twice as fast now that would have some merit but you guessed it :)
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It's logical thinking. If there are more, faster and cheaper Windows 8 devices all simultaneously, why wouldn't more sell?
 
I just bought my parents a Macbook air today and I hate Apple's philosophy on a closed ecosystem. The fun part is I think my dad would have an easier time learning MacOS for his uses (mainly internet) then getting stuck is some horrible metroapp using Windows 8.

Microsoft took a chance trying to shove shit we didn't want down us desktop users throats and are paying the price. I have found Windows 8 usable for myself but I've had to heavily modify things like the launcher, disable all the gesture features, uninstall all the metro apps. I don't want to and shouldn't have to do these things for a new product. If steam can get gaming going on linux that's my OS of choice from that point on.
 
heatlesssun said:
It's logical thinking. If there are more, faster and cheaper Windows 8 devices all simultaneously, why wouldn't more sell?
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Here is some logical thinking: They didn't sell the first time around, therefore, they won't sell the second time around.
 
BryanSTG said:
Here is some logical thinking: They didn't sell the first time around, therefore, they won't sell the second time around.
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This isn't logical because it doesn't account for the better pricing, number of and performance of the new Windows 8 devices.
 
Megalith said:
Do people seriously still buy Dell?

When I hear Dell, I think of very cheap shit coming off an even cheaper assembly line.
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So stop buying their cheap crap line, like any OEM they have lower end crap, but once you get to the business level and up their stuff shines.
 
Nenu said:
They make cheap stuff that breaks and can be tough to fix / diagnose / upgrade due to non standard/cheap parts.

I've been using a 22" Dell monitor for years as a small TV screen, superb picture quality for a TN, so not all bad.
Wouldnt touch their PCs though.
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ugh, this again

You are arew they use the same

processors
memory make
harddrive makers
video card makers
that we all buy from

They also use Foxconn for their mothboards, they used to use MSI and Asus at one point for OEM boards.

Their powersupplies are also just fine, they just build systems with what they need making upgrading a touch path, but why sell a low end computer with a 600w PSU?

So please explain what "cheap parts" they apparently use?

Dell does not make computer for the job blow to fix, that is why they come with warranties and extended support, they do that to make money, they are a business.
 
heatlesssun said:
This isn't logical because it doesn't account for the better pricing, number of and performance of the new Windows 8 devices.
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Pricing will help, but that's about it. Consumers in general do not care about options, performance, or other geek benchmarks. They care about what their friends/family/peers use, what it looks like, and how cool it will make them look. Windows 8.x covers none of that unfortunately and Dell needs to improve in all of those areas since their brand name is tainted.
 
BryanSTG said:
Pricing will help, but that's about it. Consumers in general do not care about options, performance, or other geek benchmarks. They care about what their friends/family/peers use, what it looks like, and how cool it will make them look. Windows 8.x covers none of that unfortunately and Dell needs to improve in all of those areas since their brand name is tainted.
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Performance at the baseline is very important, it was one of the big issues for netbooks. As for coolness, friends, family, looks, etc. sure. But then you have people talk about how Chromebooks and Steam Boxes are going to rule the world. Ultimately if there are enough Windows 8 devices at the right price that can serve double duty, work as true PC and tablet, plenty of people will look at the convenience at having one device that serves their needs.
 
hum the last dell i bought was 2004 dimension 8400, that thing is build like an ox and still runs like healthy one.
 
yeah, consumer model dells are rubbish. running 4 dell business laptops at the business. they've been nothing but rock solid with great support.

not to mention the monitors :)
 
I don't know what Michael Dell is really thinking, but if he actually believes that desktop computers will become dominant again, he's lost it. The desktop computer is just returning to normal, a tool for professionals. Desktop computers were dominant a couple of decades ago because good tablets, smart phones, and cheap laptops didn't exist.

And Dell leading the resurrection? Yea right.

Many of you must have a short memory or you are all under 25 if you think Dell computers are OK. Here's a little reminder from ancient times (2005):

"Dell lawsuit: Pattern of deceit
According to a recently unsealed lawsuit, Dell shipped approximately 12 million computers containing faulty components and then tried to hide the problems from buyers. By doing so, Dell allegedly engaged in a large-scale pattern of deceit against its enterprise customers. [http://twitter.com/mkrigsman]

A New York Times article describes the massive extent of this problem:

Internal documents show that Dell shipped at least 11.8 million computers from May 2003 to July 2005 that were at risk of failing because of the faulty components.

A study by Dell found that OptiPlex computers affected by the bad capacitors were expected to cause problems up to 97 percent of the time over a three-year period, according to the lawsuit. "

For years, Dell tech support used the "blame the victim" scam to avoid doing the right thing. I don't know why this didn't already kill the company.
 
heatlesssun said:
Performance at the baseline is very important, it was one of the big issues for netbooks.QUOTE]

No it wasn't, they sold like crazy because people like how they looked. Consumers didn't read the specifications which clearly state that they sucked and just purchased them based on them being trendy. Only after buying them did people start to realize that they made a mistake by not doing any research on them before hand.
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When Dell's quality went to shit, I stopped recommending them. That was 2006-2007ish. I really haven't looked back to see if they have improved since then. But, Lenovo has a solid reputation and some very well built hardware. Price is great, too. So, I recommend Lenovo to people now.

If Dell is better with their hardware and customer service again, then great. But, I won't recommend them for now.
 
MrGuvernment said:
ugh, this again

You are arew they use the same

processors
memory make
harddrive makers
video card makers
that we all buy from

They also use Foxconn for their mothboards, they used to use MSI and Asus at one point for OEM boards.

Their powersupplies are also just fine, they just build systems with what they need making upgrading a touch path, but why sell a low end computer with a 600w PSU?

So please explain what "cheap parts" they apparently use?

Dell does not make computer for the job blow to fix, that is why they come with warranties and extended support, they do that to make money, they are a business.
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You mean like Packard Bell?
 
MrGuvernment said:
they use the same

processors
memory make
harddrive makers
video card makers
that we all buy from

They also use Foxconn for their mothboards, they used to use MSI and Asus at one point for OEM boards.

So please explain what "cheap parts" they apparently use?
Click to expand...
every component inside a Dell case is "cheap."

they do not use the same components that "we" all buy from...unless you are an assembler putting together hundreds of thousands of computers for retail. Just because some of the components say MSI or ASUS on them does not make them equivalent to the graphics cards or motherboards that end-users buy for their home-built desktops.
 
BryanSTG said:
No it wasn't, they sold like crazy because people like how they looked. Consumers didn't read the specifications which clearly state that they sucked and just purchased them based on them being trendy. Only after buying them did people start to realize that they made a mistake by not doing any research on them before hand.
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But as you pointed out, people buy what their friends and family are and when the word started getting out about netbook performance, performance certainly became an issue. And performance has been a top issue with Clover Trail Windows 8 tablets. In any case, it's hare to imagine how better performance isn't a good thing at the baseline.
 
They should really start pushing Ubuntu, especially with more games coming to Linux thanks to SteamOS. If not Ubuntu, Dell could make a fork of Ubuntu/Debian.
 
heatlesssun said:
But as you pointed out, people buy what their friends and family are and when the word started getting out about netbook performance, performance certainly became an issue. And performance has been a top issue with Clover Trail Windows 8 tablets. In any case, it's hare to imagine how better performance isn't a good thing at the baseline.
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Performance increases are always a good thing, however, it is irrelevant to 99% of consumers and will not save any company or product that is already disliked for many other reasons (Win 8.x & Dell). You seem to think that consumers actually care about Clover Trail and every other processor, they don't and it will not increase sales. Consumers don't know or dont' care until it's too late.

If performance is such a selling point why do so many slow and crappy low end desktops, laptops, tablets, and smartphones sell?
 
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