Dell 2408 - quick review

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Gawd
Joined
Apr 26, 2005
Messages
1,004
I know S-PVA is better than PVA, but just out of curioisity is Premium MVA better than S-PVA

they are both quite similar technologies really, just MVA is a tech which manufacturers like AUO and CMO invest in (under different names like P-MVA, AMVA and S-MVA), and PVA / S-PVA is a tech which Samsung make exclusively. Ultimately their characteristics are quite similar in practice.
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
814
Firstly thanks for your kind explanation ;)

The reason i was confused was after i read the pinned thread that was talking about different panel types, and what their pros and cons were.

LCD Panel Technology Type and Characteristics

TN film (Twisted Nematic)
- low manufacturing/retail costs
- restrictive viewing angles
- fast pixel response times
- dead pixels display white. Stuck pixels display RGB colors
- lower contrast levels means blacks are not as dark as VA based panels
- lower color reproduction

IPS (In Plane Switching)
- improved viewing angles over TN
- very good color reproduction
- slower pixel response times than TN
- dead pixels display black
- lower contrast levels means blacks are not as dark as VA based panels

Super-IPS (S-IPS)
- same as IPS except ...
- likely best color reproduction of all TFT
- less expensive to produce than IPS
- improved pixel response

VA (Vertical Alignment) Technologies

MVA (Multidomain Vertical Alignment)
- compromise between TN and IPS technologies
- superior color reproduction over TN but not as good as IPS
- very good viewing angles but less than IPS
- higher contrast than TN or S-IPS means very good blacks
- dead pixels are black
- slower pixel response than TN or IPS
- details can be lost when directly viewing dark areas

Premium-MVA (P-MVA)
- same as MVA except ...
- "overdrive" technology increases pixel response but still slower than TN
- may have slightly degraded color reproduction due to "overdrive" process

PVA (Patterned VA)
- same as MVA except ...
- larger viewing angles
- higher contrast levels means darkest blacks

Super-PVA (S-PVA)
- same as PVA except ...
- “Magic Speed” (the Samsung equivalent to Overdrive) improves pixel response
- slightly improved color reproduction
- slightly improved viewing angles


Purchasing Considerations

TN Gamers
Considered a "gamers" panel due to it's fast pixel response times which reduces trailing images know as "ghosting". However, this advantage has been reduced by new technologies to accelerate pixel response times in other panel types. Colors and contrast tend to be weak and blacks are not truly dark. Viewing angles are significantly limited. However, monitors based on this technology tend to be inexpensive.

IPS / S-IPS Graphics Work or Web Browsing
Considered to have the best color reproduction of all panel types, these panels are well suited for graphics work or web browsing. Pixel response time is also good but slower than the TN "gamers" panel. Contast and blacks are also less dark than VA panels but viewing angles are excellent.

MVA / P-MVA / PVA / S-PVA Compromise for All-Around Use
These panels are a compromise between the fast pixel response times of the TN panel and the excellent color reproduction of the IPS panels. Contrast and blacks are best of all the panel types. Viewing angles are similar but slightly inferior to IPS.



As for WUXGA which this 2408 WFP is, i understand that it is a widescreen monitor with aspect ratio 16:10 which would be ideal in a gaming setup.

RESOLUTION COMPARIONS


WUXGA stands for Widescreen Ultra eXtended Graphics Array and is a display resolution of 1920×1200 pixels (2,304,000 pixels) with a 16:10 screen aspect ratio. Simply put this is a wide screen spec. Intended user type is for Viewing two full pages of text side by side; viewing 1080p video content. Also handy for gamers :] or when browsing websites and watching movies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WUXGA

:D



Anyway i have been looking all over for the specs for this monitor so here are my detailed findings :]








If your looking for a HDTV lcd monitor for your pc, i would recommend Dell 2408WFP which has HDCP, HDMI and DISPLAYPORT !! Basically display port is an alternative to HDMI as it also can stream HD audio/video using 1 wire connection, with the addition of being license free !

Here is the review
http://www.trustedreviews.com/displays/news/2008/01/18/New-Dell-2408WFP-Also-Hops-On-DisplayPort/p1



Dell UltraSharp 2408WFP
dell-ultrasharp-2408wfp.jpg


Shopping for a new LCD monitor? Well, Dell's latest UltraSharp 2408WFP sounds like a pretty solid candidate, bringing 24" of viewing goodness to your desktop which is perfect for those who stare at the monitor for hours on end each day. This LCD monitor also comes with a slew of ports - 13, to be exact. Features include the following :-

* Resolution size of 1,9200 x 1,200 pixels @ 60 hetz (allows for sharp and brilliant images. The 1920 x 1200 resolution is greater than High Definition, which is defined as 1920 x 1080 for 1080p. )
* WUXGA 16:10 screen aspect ratio ( basically means it is a 16:10 aspect ratio wide screen monitor )
* 6ms (gray-to-gray) response time ( this enables crisp and clear images. Also important for gamers as the lower your response time, then the less chance of ghosting. )
* Features 400 cd/m² brightness and 3,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio (for high color accuracy and uniformity)
* Offers a viewing angle of 178° horizontal and 178° vertical
* Has Pivot, Tilt, Swivel, rotate and height adjustments ( this pretty much means your monitor can be adjusted quite well for you to view. My current monitor does all this, so it is pretty convenient)
* VGA, composite, S-Video and Component
* 4 x USB 2.0 ports
* 9-in-2 memory card reader
* Full HD 1080p – Supports higher definition than HD television and a wide array of HD connection options like HDMI, Display Port, DVI-D with HDCP and HDMI 2.1 Audio Out.
* 24"WS Samsung S-PVA

It retails for $699 a pop.



2408WFP:
dell_inputs.jpg


The inputs are very good. The most important i would say it has DisplayPort, HDMI 1.3 and DVI. All of which are HDCP so you would be able to use an internal bluray drive to watch videos on your pc is what it means assuming that you have a HDCP capable graphics card accelerator which you should by now.





It hasn't quite yet come to the shops but it will pretty soon. I currently have a Dell 2405 FPW 24'' lcd monitor. The quality is very good so i would highly recommend getting a Dell for my next monitor :]



update:

Found someones new review :]

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1276368

http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/monitor_2408wfp?c=us&l=en&s=dfo




My question is

1. What HDMI version is it ? is it 1.3 ? All i know is that it has HDMI 2.1 Audio Out.

2. For DisplayPort what version is it ? And can the DisplayPort be updated with new firmware or will any newer revisions require hardware changes ? Speaking of which, does HDMI require hardware changes also for newer revisions ?
 
Joined
Sep 16, 2007
Messages
60
why do you need hdmi on this monitor, it only has a 2 channel audio out. not 5.1, 7.1
(I know , I know, probably for a console)

And for displayport , it is the first version so it will be probably be 1.0
 

kleox64

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
1,467
I know S-PVA is better than PVA, but just out of curioisity is Premium MVA better than S-PVA ?
:)

it has less input lag and also less crushed blacks, IMO it is a much better blend of charateristics compared to S-PVA.

MVA has been replaced with A-MVA.
 

DrRetina

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Messages
239
Is there any kind of buzz/sounds coming from this display?

Can you please test it with a completely silent video source like an IPOD nano or somehing?
I was pretty sure my Samsung 245BW was silent until i tryed turning of the PC and feed it with a signal from a completely silent laptop. Loud buzz what had been exeeded by my PC. I don't want to make the same mistake again.

Thanks!
 

Bwaze

n00b
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
15
As to what panel the 2408WFP uses, here is the answer from Chris, community liaison from Dell forums:

http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_monitor&thread.id=87535

It's an S-PVA.

Tedbird, thank you for your test. Just wondering, was the monitor really ON for the whole hour? Because if it goes to power saving mode, it cools itself and ghosting is again hard to detect. But it's good news that ghosting is not so apparent.

Other things to check:

In this image, do the darker squares (on my monitor under number 8) appear to be brighter when you move your head off centre? How much do you have to move your head before darker squares become visible? This shows the "black crush" that all VA panels have.

Lagom Black level test

Black crush can also be tested just by setting desktop background to very dark grey (for instance 20, 20, 20) - in the middle it will be much darker than on the edges, and when you move your head, the dark spot moves with you. Even some backlight bleeding that you see on the edges is probably just this effect - try to move your head to the side bleeding is on, it should diminish.


Also, VA panels have quite a bit of gamma shift with even moderate viewing angles. You can test it with image on this site:

Lagom Viewing-angle test

The "lagom" text will appear stronger if you look monitor from side. It is also much more visible on the corners than in the centre (of your view). But on TN panel it even changes colour, and not just by a little.

Also, use the program Checkmon and choose the Color gradients option - bottom gradient should be uniform without any banding or lines in all the colours and black & white.

And last but not least, open the monitor and report the panel model. :D

Just joking on the last one, don’t void your warranty.

(sorry for my English, too tired to spell check)
 

Omegaslast

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
297
Whoops misread

hopefully more people who have seen 2407 overdrive are buying this monitor and confirming whether it has ghosting problems

if it doesnt then it will be nice to see a 24" S-PVA thats $600 and not $800 like other companies charge!!!
 

Overspeed

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
227
Tedbird, Warlust,

Wondering if you two have any more feedback on your 2408's after having some time to play with them. I'm holding out on my order for now, still looking for some more reviews.
Specifically I'm looking to know...

  • Ghosting? Tedbird said he didn't see the ghosting that the 2407 had. If this still your feeling after having had a chance to play with it more?
  • Input lag? How responsive is the monitor when gaming to the movement of the mouse?
  • Motion Blur? Does the picture remain sharp during fast moving scenes?
  • Backlight bleed? Tedbird noticed some on all four corners after the monitor was warmed up. It is overly noticeable? Many say the 3008WFP had fair to bad backlight bleeding and since its said that this monitor is the little brother to the 3008, wondering if it is the same.
  • Dead Pixels? Any of you two guys found any?

I appreciate your thoughts.
 

E.T

Gawd
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
804
Input lag? How responsive is the monitor when gaming to the movement of the mouse?
Doesn't work at all, too subjective and resolution changes and about everything have effect:
I have no way to really measure input lag, but COD4 felt a bit sluggish. That may because of the higher resolution I'm pushing..
Also, after tweaking COD4 some more, the input lag seemed very low.

So where are comparison results to CRT by using counter and digicam?
 

Bwaze

n00b
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
15
Just reposting here, this is also posted in thread "Dell 2408WFP Now Available".

This site should be useful for monitor tests and calibration:

head.jpg


http://tft.vanity.dk/

"Executable mode" is actually a very useful "Online monitor test" program. It opens in full screen, navigation tab is on the top centre of your monitor, just hover your cursor there and you can disable info tab (but read it for every test, it's very helpful).

I use this program to set brightness / contrast so I have detail in whites and blacks, and I also check full screen greyscale gradient, which can be really screwed in some colour modes.

Under "Trailing" you can test the ghosting, especially in "Interactive gradients". If I choose the image with vertical white bar and three horizontal bars and move it around (background gradient doesn't matter), all bars leave ugly trails on grey surroundings. On my Dell 2407WFP-HC, of course.


That page also holds the Input Lag program, useful for testing monitor lag:

The input lag test can be used to test for input lag if you have 2 monitors connected. You will need a camera to record the counter. The procedure is as follows:

- Set your two monitors in clone mode
- Run either the program or open the html document
- Start the timer
- Take a picture with your camera with both monitors i focus
- If the input response is different on the two monitors, the number on each screen will be different

So just hook a CRT (which has absolutely no input lag) and LCD you want to test to your graphic card, set them to clone mode, and take several pictures with high shutter speed (so the fraction of second numbers don't appear blurred), subtract, and you will have pretty accurate value of input lag on your LCD.
 

asodamiac

n00b
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Messages
27
Is there any kind of buzz/sounds coming from this display?

Can you please test it with a completely silent video source like an IPOD nano or somehing?
I was pretty sure my Samsung 245BW was silent until i tryed turning of the PC and feed it with a signal from a completely silent laptop. Loud buzz what had been exeeded by my PC. I don't want to make the same mistake again.

Thanks!

DrRetina, I just got my 2408 this morning and cannot hear any sort of buzz coming from the monitor, not even with my ear right next to the screen.
 

enjay

n00b
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
38
Hi I'm from Germany and I got mine today (WFPb).
Lag is almost always exactly 47 ms, sometimes ~32. No image settings nor different presets have any effect on this whatsoever.

Picture is very nice, much better than the 215TW I have at work, and similar to the one from my old 213T (PVA without overdrive, 15 ms lag by the way). Except for strange, green-grey striped "ghost images" of transitions from dark to bright and back to dark when I move my eyes - for example the edges of an xterm. Is this the "ghosting" people are talking about? Looks similar to DLP projectors' rainbow effect.
When photographing the screen at <1/500s, green and red tinted images are visible. At <=1/2000, the change from red to green in the same frame can be seen.

p.s. the above results were with the flatpanels.dk test. With the test from springcreeksoftware.com, it's either 32 or 50-52 ms.
p.p.s. with the latter test, the results differ more than I thought:
40 43 44 32 44 51 43 54 61 45 62 33 44 61 32
 

xcreepx

n00b
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
2
Well. i live in Canada.
i ordered this very moniter about 3 days ago, so it should be here anytime soon,
but the reason i ordered it is not for a moniter, i mean i might try it out. just to see how it works with my pc, but i'm going to be useing this for my Playstation3,
does anyone know if HDMI or DVI-D is better?
if so , let me know!:)
 
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