they are both quite similar technologies really, just MVA is a tech which manufacturers like AUO and CMO invest in (under different names like P-MVA, AMVA and S-MVA), and PVA / S-PVA is a tech which Samsung make exclusively. Ultimately their characteristics are quite similar in practice.
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Dell 2408 - quick review
- Thread starter tedbird
- Start date
they are both quite similar technologies really, just MVA is a tech which manufacturers like AUO and CMO invest in (under different names like P-MVA, AMVA and S-MVA), and PVA / S-PVA is a tech which Samsung make exclusively. Ultimately their characteristics are quite similar in practice.
Moogle Stiltzkin
Gawd
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2004
- Messages
- 814
Firstly thanks for your kind explanation 
The reason i was confused was after i read the pinned thread that was talking about different panel types, and what their pros and cons were.
As for WUXGA which this 2408 WFP is, i understand that it is a widescreen monitor with aspect ratio 16:10 which would be ideal in a gaming setup.
Anyway i have been looking all over for the specs for this monitor so here are my detailed findings :]
If your looking for a HDTV lcd monitor for your pc, i would recommend Dell 2408WFP which has HDCP, HDMI and DISPLAYPORT !! Basically display port is an alternative to HDMI as it also can stream HD audio/video using 1 wire connection, with the addition of being license free !
Here is the review
http://www.trustedreviews.com/displays/news/2008/01/18/New-Dell-2408WFP-Also-Hops-On-DisplayPort/p1
Dell UltraSharp 2408WFP
Shopping for a new LCD monitor? Well, Dell's latest UltraSharp 2408WFP sounds like a pretty solid candidate, bringing 24" of viewing goodness to your desktop which is perfect for those who stare at the monitor for hours on end each day. This LCD monitor also comes with a slew of ports - 13, to be exact. Features include the following :-
* Resolution size of 1,9200 x 1,200 pixels @ 60 hetz (allows for sharp and brilliant images. The 1920 x 1200 resolution is greater than High Definition, which is defined as 1920 x 1080 for 1080p. )
* WUXGA 16:10 screen aspect ratio ( basically means it is a 16:10 aspect ratio wide screen monitor )
* 6ms (gray-to-gray) response time ( this enables crisp and clear images. Also important for gamers as the lower your response time, then the less chance of ghosting. )
* Features 400 cd/m² brightness and 3,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio (for high color accuracy and uniformity)
* Offers a viewing angle of 178° horizontal and 178° vertical
* Has Pivot, Tilt, Swivel, rotate and height adjustments ( this pretty much means your monitor can be adjusted quite well for you to view. My current monitor does all this, so it is pretty convenient)
* VGA, composite, S-Video and Component
* 4 x USB 2.0 ports
* 9-in-2 memory card reader
* Full HD 1080p – Supports higher definition than HD television and a wide array of HD connection options like HDMI, Display Port, DVI-D with HDCP and HDMI 2.1 Audio Out.
* 24"WS Samsung S-PVA
It retails for $699 a pop.
2408WFP:
The inputs are very good. The most important i would say it has DisplayPort, HDMI 1.3 and DVI. All of which are HDCP so you would be able to use an internal bluray drive to watch videos on your pc is what it means assuming that you have a HDCP capable graphics card accelerator which you should by now.
It hasn't quite yet come to the shops but it will pretty soon. I currently have a Dell 2405 FPW 24'' lcd monitor. The quality is very good so i would highly recommend getting a Dell for my next monitor :]
update:
Found someones new review :]
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1276368
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/monitor_2408wfp?c=us&l=en&s=dfo
My question is
1. What HDMI version is it ? is it 1.3 ? All i know is that it has HDMI 2.1 Audio Out.
2. For DisplayPort what version is it ? And can the DisplayPort be updated with new firmware or will any newer revisions require hardware changes ? Speaking of which, does HDMI require hardware changes also for newer revisions ?
The reason i was confused was after i read the pinned thread that was talking about different panel types, and what their pros and cons were.
As for WUXGA which this 2408 WFP is, i understand that it is a widescreen monitor with aspect ratio 16:10 which would be ideal in a gaming setup.
Anyway i have been looking all over for the specs for this monitor so here are my detailed findings :]
If your looking for a HDTV lcd monitor for your pc, i would recommend Dell 2408WFP which has HDCP, HDMI and DISPLAYPORT !! Basically display port is an alternative to HDMI as it also can stream HD audio/video using 1 wire connection, with the addition of being license free !
Here is the review
http://www.trustedreviews.com/displays/news/2008/01/18/New-Dell-2408WFP-Also-Hops-On-DisplayPort/p1
Dell UltraSharp 2408WFP
Shopping for a new LCD monitor? Well, Dell's latest UltraSharp 2408WFP sounds like a pretty solid candidate, bringing 24" of viewing goodness to your desktop which is perfect for those who stare at the monitor for hours on end each day. This LCD monitor also comes with a slew of ports - 13, to be exact. Features include the following :-
* Resolution size of 1,9200 x 1,200 pixels @ 60 hetz (allows for sharp and brilliant images. The 1920 x 1200 resolution is greater than High Definition, which is defined as 1920 x 1080 for 1080p. )
* WUXGA 16:10 screen aspect ratio ( basically means it is a 16:10 aspect ratio wide screen monitor )
* 6ms (gray-to-gray) response time ( this enables crisp and clear images. Also important for gamers as the lower your response time, then the less chance of ghosting. )
* Features 400 cd/m² brightness and 3,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio (for high color accuracy and uniformity)
* Offers a viewing angle of 178° horizontal and 178° vertical
* Has Pivot, Tilt, Swivel, rotate and height adjustments ( this pretty much means your monitor can be adjusted quite well for you to view. My current monitor does all this, so it is pretty convenient)
* VGA, composite, S-Video and Component
* 4 x USB 2.0 ports
* 9-in-2 memory card reader
* Full HD 1080p – Supports higher definition than HD television and a wide array of HD connection options like HDMI, Display Port, DVI-D with HDCP and HDMI 2.1 Audio Out.
* 24"WS Samsung S-PVA
It retails for $699 a pop.
2408WFP:
The inputs are very good. The most important i would say it has DisplayPort, HDMI 1.3 and DVI. All of which are HDCP so you would be able to use an internal bluray drive to watch videos on your pc is what it means assuming that you have a HDCP capable graphics card accelerator which you should by now.
It hasn't quite yet come to the shops but it will pretty soon. I currently have a Dell 2405 FPW 24'' lcd monitor. The quality is very good so i would highly recommend getting a Dell for my next monitor :]
update:
Found someones new review :]
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1276368
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/monitor_2408wfp?c=us&l=en&s=dfo
My question is
1. What HDMI version is it ? is it 1.3 ? All i know is that it has HDMI 2.1 Audio Out.
2. For DisplayPort what version is it ? And can the DisplayPort be updated with new firmware or will any newer revisions require hardware changes ? Speaking of which, does HDMI require hardware changes also for newer revisions ?
Caine Thanatos
n00b
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2007
- Messages
- 60
why do you need hdmi on this monitor, it only has a 2 channel audio out. not 5.1, 7.1
(I know , I know, probably for a console)
And for displayport , it is the first version so it will be probably be 1.0
(I know , I know, probably for a console)
And for displayport , it is the first version so it will be probably be 1.0
I know S-PVA is better than PVA, but just out of curioisity is Premium MVA better than S-PVA ?
it has less input lag and also less crushed blacks, IMO it is a much better blend of charateristics compared to S-PVA.
MVA has been replaced with A-MVA.
Is there any kind of buzz/sounds coming from this display?
Can you please test it with a completely silent video source like an IPOD nano or somehing?
I was pretty sure my Samsung 245BW was silent until i tryed turning of the PC and feed it with a signal from a completely silent laptop. Loud buzz what had been exeeded by my PC. I don't want to make the same mistake again.
Thanks!
Can you please test it with a completely silent video source like an IPOD nano or somehing?
I was pretty sure my Samsung 245BW was silent until i tryed turning of the PC and feed it with a signal from a completely silent laptop. Loud buzz what had been exeeded by my PC. I don't want to make the same mistake again.
Thanks!
Caine Thanatos
n00b
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2007
- Messages
- 60
Moogle Stiltzkin
Gawd
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2004
- Messages
- 814
I didn't know about a A-MVA thx for the info. They should update the pinned thread !!!!
Anyway i wiki it up
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_film_transistor_liquid_crystal_display
Anyway i wiki it up
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_film_transistor_liquid_crystal_display
As to what panel the 2408WFP uses, here is the answer from Chris, community liaison from Dell forums:
http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_monitor&thread.id=87535
It's an S-PVA.
Tedbird, thank you for your test. Just wondering, was the monitor really ON for the whole hour? Because if it goes to power saving mode, it cools itself and ghosting is again hard to detect. But it's good news that ghosting is not so apparent.
Other things to check:
In this image, do the darker squares (on my monitor under number 8) appear to be brighter when you move your head off centre? How much do you have to move your head before darker squares become visible? This shows the "black crush" that all VA panels have.
Lagom Black level test
Black crush can also be tested just by setting desktop background to very dark grey (for instance 20, 20, 20) - in the middle it will be much darker than on the edges, and when you move your head, the dark spot moves with you. Even some backlight bleeding that you see on the edges is probably just this effect - try to move your head to the side bleeding is on, it should diminish.
Also, VA panels have quite a bit of gamma shift with even moderate viewing angles. You can test it with image on this site:
Lagom Viewing-angle test
The "lagom" text will appear stronger if you look monitor from side. It is also much more visible on the corners than in the centre (of your view). But on TN panel it even changes colour, and not just by a little.
Also, use the program Checkmon and choose the Color gradients option - bottom gradient should be uniform without any banding or lines in all the colours and black & white.
And last but not least, open the monitor and report the panel model.
Just joking on the last one, don’t void your warranty.
(sorry for my English, too tired to spell check)
http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_monitor&thread.id=87535
It's an S-PVA.
Tedbird, thank you for your test. Just wondering, was the monitor really ON for the whole hour? Because if it goes to power saving mode, it cools itself and ghosting is again hard to detect. But it's good news that ghosting is not so apparent.
Other things to check:
In this image, do the darker squares (on my monitor under number 8) appear to be brighter when you move your head off centre? How much do you have to move your head before darker squares become visible? This shows the "black crush" that all VA panels have.
Lagom Black level test
Black crush can also be tested just by setting desktop background to very dark grey (for instance 20, 20, 20) - in the middle it will be much darker than on the edges, and when you move your head, the dark spot moves with you. Even some backlight bleeding that you see on the edges is probably just this effect - try to move your head to the side bleeding is on, it should diminish.
Also, VA panels have quite a bit of gamma shift with even moderate viewing angles. You can test it with image on this site:
Lagom Viewing-angle test
The "lagom" text will appear stronger if you look monitor from side. It is also much more visible on the corners than in the centre (of your view). But on TN panel it even changes colour, and not just by a little.
Also, use the program Checkmon and choose the Color gradients option - bottom gradient should be uniform without any banding or lines in all the colours and black & white.
And last but not least, open the monitor and report the panel model.
Just joking on the last one, don’t void your warranty.
(sorry for my English, too tired to spell check)
Omegaslast
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2004
- Messages
- 297
Whoops misread
hopefully more people who have seen 2407 overdrive are buying this monitor and confirming whether it has ghosting problems
if it doesnt then it will be nice to see a 24" S-PVA thats $600 and not $800 like other companies charge!!!
hopefully more people who have seen 2407 overdrive are buying this monitor and confirming whether it has ghosting problems
if it doesnt then it will be nice to see a 24" S-PVA thats $600 and not $800 like other companies charge!!!
Tedbird, Warlust,
Wondering if you two have any more feedback on your 2408's after having some time to play with them. I'm holding out on my order for now, still looking for some more reviews.
Specifically I'm looking to know...
I appreciate your thoughts.
Wondering if you two have any more feedback on your 2408's after having some time to play with them. I'm holding out on my order for now, still looking for some more reviews.
Specifically I'm looking to know...
- Ghosting? Tedbird said he didn't see the ghosting that the 2407 had. If this still your feeling after having had a chance to play with it more?
- Input lag? How responsive is the monitor when gaming to the movement of the mouse?
- Motion Blur? Does the picture remain sharp during fast moving scenes?
- Backlight bleed? Tedbird noticed some on all four corners after the monitor was warmed up. It is overly noticeable? Many say the 3008WFP had fair to bad backlight bleeding and since its said that this monitor is the little brother to the 3008, wondering if it is the same.
- Dead Pixels? Any of you two guys found any?
I appreciate your thoughts.
Doesn't work at all, too subjective and resolution changes and about everything have effect:
So where are comparison results to CRT by using counter and digicam?
Just reposting here, this is also posted in thread "Dell 2408WFP Now Available".
This site should be useful for monitor tests and calibration:
http://tft.vanity.dk/
"Executable mode" is actually a very useful "Online monitor test" program. It opens in full screen, navigation tab is on the top centre of your monitor, just hover your cursor there and you can disable info tab (but read it for every test, it's very helpful).
I use this program to set brightness / contrast so I have detail in whites and blacks, and I also check full screen greyscale gradient, which can be really screwed in some colour modes.
Under "Trailing" you can test the ghosting, especially in "Interactive gradients". If I choose the image with vertical white bar and three horizontal bars and move it around (background gradient doesn't matter), all bars leave ugly trails on grey surroundings. On my Dell 2407WFP-HC, of course.
That page also holds the Input Lag program, useful for testing monitor lag:
The input lag test can be used to test for input lag if you have 2 monitors connected. You will need a camera to record the counter. The procedure is as follows:
- Set your two monitors in clone mode
- Run either the program or open the html document
- Start the timer
- Take a picture with your camera with both monitors i focus
- If the input response is different on the two monitors, the number on each screen will be different
So just hook a CRT (which has absolutely no input lag) and LCD you want to test to your graphic card, set them to clone mode, and take several pictures with high shutter speed (so the fraction of second numbers don't appear blurred), subtract, and you will have pretty accurate value of input lag on your LCD.
This site should be useful for monitor tests and calibration:
http://tft.vanity.dk/
"Executable mode" is actually a very useful "Online monitor test" program. It opens in full screen, navigation tab is on the top centre of your monitor, just hover your cursor there and you can disable info tab (but read it for every test, it's very helpful).
I use this program to set brightness / contrast so I have detail in whites and blacks, and I also check full screen greyscale gradient, which can be really screwed in some colour modes.
Under "Trailing" you can test the ghosting, especially in "Interactive gradients". If I choose the image with vertical white bar and three horizontal bars and move it around (background gradient doesn't matter), all bars leave ugly trails on grey surroundings. On my Dell 2407WFP-HC, of course.
That page also holds the Input Lag program, useful for testing monitor lag:
The input lag test can be used to test for input lag if you have 2 monitors connected. You will need a camera to record the counter. The procedure is as follows:
- Set your two monitors in clone mode
- Run either the program or open the html document
- Start the timer
- Take a picture with your camera with both monitors i focus
- If the input response is different on the two monitors, the number on each screen will be different
So just hook a CRT (which has absolutely no input lag) and LCD you want to test to your graphic card, set them to clone mode, and take several pictures with high shutter speed (so the fraction of second numbers don't appear blurred), subtract, and you will have pretty accurate value of input lag on your LCD.
DrRetina, I just got my 2408 this morning and cannot hear any sort of buzz coming from the monitor, not even with my ear right next to the screen.
Caine Thanatos
n00b
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2007
- Messages
- 60
any new info, comparisons?
Hi I'm from Germany and I got mine today (WFPb).
Lag is almost always exactly 47 ms, sometimes ~32. No image settings nor different presets have any effect on this whatsoever.
Picture is very nice, much better than the 215TW I have at work, and similar to the one from my old 213T (PVA without overdrive, 15 ms lag by the way). Except for strange, green-grey striped "ghost images" of transitions from dark to bright and back to dark when I move my eyes - for example the edges of an xterm. Is this the "ghosting" people are talking about? Looks similar to DLP projectors' rainbow effect.
When photographing the screen at <1/500s, green and red tinted images are visible. At <=1/2000, the change from red to green in the same frame can be seen.
p.s. the above results were with the flatpanels.dk test. With the test from springcreeksoftware.com, it's either 32 or 50-52 ms.
p.p.s. with the latter test, the results differ more than I thought:
40 43 44 32 44 51 43 54 61 45 62 33 44 61 32
Lag is almost always exactly 47 ms, sometimes ~32. No image settings nor different presets have any effect on this whatsoever.
Picture is very nice, much better than the 215TW I have at work, and similar to the one from my old 213T (PVA without overdrive, 15 ms lag by the way). Except for strange, green-grey striped "ghost images" of transitions from dark to bright and back to dark when I move my eyes - for example the edges of an xterm. Is this the "ghosting" people are talking about? Looks similar to DLP projectors' rainbow effect.
When photographing the screen at <1/500s, green and red tinted images are visible. At <=1/2000, the change from red to green in the same frame can be seen.
p.s. the above results were with the flatpanels.dk test. With the test from springcreeksoftware.com, it's either 32 or 50-52 ms.
p.p.s. with the latter test, the results differ more than I thought:
40 43 44 32 44 51 43 54 61 45 62 33 44 61 32
Well. i live in Canada.
i ordered this very moniter about 3 days ago, so it should be here anytime soon,
but the reason i ordered it is not for a moniter, i mean i might try it out. just to see how it works with my pc, but i'm going to be useing this for my Playstation3,
does anyone know if HDMI or DVI-D is better?
if so , let me know!
i ordered this very moniter about 3 days ago, so it should be here anytime soon,
but the reason i ordered it is not for a moniter, i mean i might try it out. just to see how it works with my pc, but i'm going to be useing this for my Playstation3,
does anyone know if HDMI or DVI-D is better?
if so , let me know!