Dell 2405FPW Input Lag

O

offtone

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 13, 2005
Messages
205
This seems to have been touched on in some threads, but I couldn't find one dedicated entirely to the subject so here it is...

I've got one of these monitors and it's pissing. me. off. I traded my brother my Microsoft Wireless Natural Desktop Pro for his Microsoft Natural MultiMedia Keyboard + $60 CAD just so I'd have a natural keyboard with a wire (and those hotkeys). I still get input lag. I bought a Logitech MX518 Gaming Grade mouse (also corded). Still get input lag.

While I've succeeded at minimizing the effect, it's not gone and the effects are still noticeable. I _suck_ at counter-strike because my movements take about 10ms to register on the screen so when I move left, it waits and then moves left. Running along roofs and trying to run up to the edge has me falling right off because my keyboard command to stop is given too late.

Has anyone corrected this problem? I realise some people are going to say they don't notice any lag (I don't notice any unless playing games) but the fact is, the only thing I've changed on my system is the monitor and therefore it is the only thing that could be causing this. Getting rid of it will fix the problem, but I'd really like to keep it. It's using DVI on my X800 Pro video card. Other specs:

Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe Motherboard
1GB RAM (PC-3200 @ 400Mhz I believe)
Creative Audigy2 Soundcard.
WinXP Pro.
AMD Athlon XP 3200+ (400Mhz FSB)

The thing is, if I get a refund for this thing, I don't know what else to buy. It seemed to have better specs than all the other comparable LCD monitors in the price range, and I need at least 1600x1200 resolution on no less than a 21" monitor (no way will buy a small screen than my last one...)

This sucks. This really sucks.
 
offtone said:
This seems to have been touched on in some threads, but I couldn't find one dedicated entirely to the subject so here it is...

I've got one of these monitors and it's pissing. me. off. I traded my brother my Microsoft Wireless Natural Desktop Pro for his Microsoft Natural MultiMedia Keyboard + $60 CAD just so I'd have a natural keyboard with a wire (and those hotkeys). I still get input lag. I bought a Logitech MX518 Gaming Grade mouse (also corded). Still get input lag.

While I've succeeded at minimizing the effect, it's not gone and the effects are still noticeable. I _suck_ at counter-strike because my movements take about 10ms to register on the screen so when I move left, it waits and then moves left. Running along roofs and trying to run up to the edge has me falling right off because my keyboard command to stop is given too late.

Has anyone corrected this problem? I realise some people are going to say they don't notice any lag (I don't notice any unless playing games) but the fact is, the only thing I've changed on my system is the monitor and therefore it is the only thing that could be causing this. Getting rid of it will fix the problem, but I'd really like to keep it. It's using DVI on my X800 Pro video card. Other specs:

Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe Motherboard
1GB RAM (PC-3200 @ 400Mhz I believe)
Creative Audigy2 Soundcard.
WinXP Pro.

The thing is, if I get a refund for this thing, I don't know what else to buy. It seemed to have better specs than all the other comparable LCD monitors in the price range, and I need at least 1600x1200 resolution on no less than a 21" monitor (no way will buy a small screen than my last one...)

This sucks. This really sucks.
Click to expand...

Sorry man, but I have yet to expierence this input "lag" that everyone seem to be having a hissy fit about and believe me, i'd know if something is wrong because I am a maniac in BF2 and HL2 Deatmatch, so I would notice if I had some kinda lag as a result of my monitor but as such, I don't.
 
illgiveumorality said:
I bet you it's everything else but your monitor
Click to expand...

What confuses is me is when he plugs in a different monitor and it apparantly doesn't happen, thats whats scratching my cranium :confused:
 
Wow 10 ms lag... I wonder if people actually realize how short a period that is. Not saying you arent expereincing things with your new mon. But I am betting it is more of a visual thing and has something to how you have3 the mouse set up.

YOu may wanna try to turn off Enhance Pointer precision in the mouse control panel. I think it is just that you have just a BIG A$$ screen now you are noticing things that have always been present in the past.
 
Arialis said:
Wow 10 ms lag... I wonder if people actually realize how short a period that is. Not saying you arent expereincing things with your new mon. But I am betting it is more of a visual thing and has something to how you have3 the mouse set up.

YOu may wanna try to turn off Enhance Pointer precision in the mouse control panel. I think it is just that you have just a BIG A$$ screen now you are noticing things that have always been present in the past.
Click to expand...

I was gonna say, could a normal person even detect a visual difference of 10ms and how did you even come to the conclusion that it was around a 10ms lag delay anyway?
 
If you're an avid FPS player, you can probably tell the difference 10ms makes. I think I know what he is talking about as I've experienced it before, I don't however think it has to do with your monitor. I'd start playing with drivers before I jumped to any conclusions.

-Matt
 
Arialis said:
Honestly I think a normal eye blink is longer than 10 ms
Click to expand...

I dunno, i did some googling...

The average time it takes for a complete human blink is about 300 to
400 milliseconds or 3/10ths to 4/10ths of a second. Of course this is an
average only and can differ from person to person. Also, there are other
factors that can affect blink speed, like fatigue, medications,
diseases, and injury to the eye area. Most factors decrease or slow the
blink rate.
Click to expand...
 
Oh it's noticeable, and it's definitely the monitor's presence that's causing it. I think someone suggested that the high resolution was enough to flood the "bandwidth" of the system to the point that everything sort of lags, but I don't think that's the case... My CRT was on VGA but this LCD's on DVI so maybe DVI's more "bandwidth-heavy"? I don't know... I don't even want to try hooking it up to VGA for fear it'll fix things but then I'll have to decide if I want to live with the reduced quality... Maybe I'll give it a shot anyway, in the name of science :p

I've got work to do first though, so I'll reply later with my results.
 
I just got a 2405 this week, I do not notice the lag I hear some people mention either. I am running at the native res of course via dvi with the system in my sig.. no troubles in bf2, q3, cod 2 demo, fear etc.
 
Alright guys. I've got the VGA thing going here and the lag is gone. I played CS for a second and saw the lag. Shut down, switched to VGA, booted up and reconnected to the SAME server. Played and no lag. Shut down. Switched back to DVI. Booted. Connected to the same server again. Played with lag. Shut down. Am back on VGA and I'm going to stay here. I don't notice any lower quality... Heh.

Not sure if this is an option for anyone else, but the VGA thing's going to keep me happy I think. Unless one of y'all can convince me otherwise...
 
glad that fixed it for you, If you see no quality loss I would not worry about it. Very strange though non the less. Wonder what dell would say about this.
 
I had the lag, but new Razer drivers fixed it. I still get it occasionally in the menu's of some games but not the games themselves. I got the lag in one game a few weeks back but the game sucked anyway, I can't even remeber which game.
 
I see no lag in anything and that includes trying to set audio 10ms higher in movie clips to see if lip movement matches sound and vice versa. One thing I have noticed is that when the monitor has been cold, or off for a long time I notice the ghosting or blurring effect much more
 
I still get input lag in Counter-Strike: Source, but I had lag in source with my CRT too. I think the whole "too much bandwidth" thing makes sense. I'm sure if I upgraded my PC (or at least the mobo) the lag would go away for games that require so much data transfer I guess? This is my ignorant theory, but I think it's sort of plausible... Heh. We'll find out next year when I upgrade again.
 
Did you try removing all your input drivers, and the monitor drives, and reinstalling them?

ib.
 
I formatted when the monitor arrived. Since then, I've uninstaleld the mouse drivers (I'd been running the Logitech ones before) and have only the IntelliType drivers now (so the HotKeys work). The lag is still present in DVI mode.
 
Ive had my 2405 for about a week and a half now, been using it with DVI and DEFINATELY notice the input lag with mouse. Its not a matter of maybe or a placebo effect. Its there, and very noticable for anyone who is half decent at playing fps games.


I will try this VGA hookup and report back a little bit later to see if it goes away. I've also tested it it with 3 diff mice, mx510, ie 3.0, ie 4.0 tones of diff drivers and 4 diff monitors. 17" samsung lcd, and couple of Crts

Using winxp pro with sp 2
 
Trying to stateoftheart game on a 3200+ at stock speeds with likely 1G of avg-joe ram?

No wonder you have "response" issues on the client side.

Move to a A64 Sandy running 2.75Ghz minimum with 2G of FAST ram... 4x512M BH5 running 250Mhz 7,2,2,2.0 x11.

Your poor x800 is hog tied. I can just get playable with 1G of BH5 and a 2600+ mobile in DFI INfinity running 250Mhz x10 11,2,2,2.0 @ 3.45Vdimm with all Vmod's installed on the motherboard and a X800XTPE Vmod'd to 582/582.

So I moved to an A64 monster system. The only "lag" I see now is due to the internet connection.....next stop FIOS from Verizon.
 
swerve said:
Ive had my 2405 for about a week and a half now, been using it with DVI and DEFINATELY notice the input lag with mouse. Its not a matter of maybe or a placebo effect. Its there, and very noticable for anyone who is half decent at playing fps games.


I will try this VGA hookup and report back a little bit later to see if it goes away. I've also tested it it with 3 diff mice, mx510, ie 3.0, ie 4.0 tones of diff drivers and 4 diff monitors. 17" samsung lcd, and couple of Crts

Using winxp pro with sp 2
Click to expand...

Sorry, don't notice anything here
 
swerve said:
Ive had my 2405 for about a week and a half now, been using it with DVI and DEFINATELY notice the input lag with mouse. Its not a matter of maybe or a placebo effect. Its there, and very noticable for anyone who is half decent at playing fps games.


I will try this VGA hookup and report back a little bit later to see if it goes away. I've also tested it it with 3 diff mice, mx510, ie 3.0, ie 4.0 tones of diff drivers and 4 diff monitors. 17" samsung lcd, and couple of Crts

Using winxp pro with sp 2
Click to expand...

What is your video card ? Have you tried the Display Settings -> Advanced -> Troubleshoot -> { Lower HW Acceleration by one notch } trick ?
 
Decided to register and help people sort through this issue.

If you run the monitor at native resolution (1920x1200) there is no lag. If you run at any non-native, you may notice lag based on what your doing.

I play Battlefield 2 and Day of Defeat Source on this monitor at it's native resolution, and get absolutely no lag. Trust me on this, I'm a sniper in DoDS and I would notice any type of lag.

When I first played BF2, I was running at 1024x768. I was like "omg" it's so laggy. I would turn to the left, and it would finally turn to the left like 1-2 seconds later. It was completly unnaceptable, and I was ready to return my display. I tried the native rez hack for BF2, and VOILA!! No lag.

Most new games either support widescreen, or have script/executable path hacks to enable the features. Do a google search, you'll find some good sites that list these settings.

Hope this was informative, and hopefully this will end allot of th speculation.
 
I just got my 2405 last Thursday after using a 19" CRT for 7 years to play mostly FPS. These past few days I've been playing DoD like crazy on the new monitor at 1920x1200 and I don't notice any lag. I'm glad I don't because I'd hate to send this beauty back to Dell.
 
Listen up, lads:

This is a real issue, not an imagined one... Though I have no clue what causes it.

My story goes a little something like this:

I was rocking my brand new system, with my logitech mx1000 cordless mouse, and everything was golden. At this point I was still using my old 17" Samsung 700 NF CRT -- I noticed no mouse or cusor lag at all.

Then came my Dell 2005FPW. I noticed it the second I moved the mouse -- there was a very subtle, but very noticable delay in both the windows mouse cursor, and in FPS games. I tried everything to fix it, but to no avail. I was running the latest video drivers, video BIOS, and motherboard BIOS revision. I was running in native resolution over a DVI connection with a BFG Geforce 6800 Ultra OC.

Nothing I did would solve the problem, and any forum I posted to insisted there was something wrong with some component in my system (even though it still worked fine if I switched back to my old monitor). They thought I was nuts.

Over the course of troubleshooting I noticed that corded mice did not exhibit the same laggy behavior, so I eventually caved and bought a razor diamond back (a better mouse anyway, in my opinion). So all is good now, but I never did figure out what was wrong.

I am leaning towards some kind of interference the monitor put out, or maybe some kind of issue with the 60hz refresh rate and polling speed of the mouse, or the base station (some kind of asychronization leading to lag, or something). I never did get to try another cordless mouse, however.

So there you have it. I have no clue what happened, but hopefully the tale of my experience will be useful to someone.
 
Trematode said:
Then came my Dell 2005FPW. I noticed it the second I moved the mouse -- there was a very subtle, but very noticable delay in both the windows mouse cursor, and in FPS games.
Click to expand...

This is a thread about the 2405! The panels are different manufactures (Samsung vs LG) and use different tech.

My only advice is to retry testing native rez vs non-native rez with another cordless mouse, you'll probably get the expected results.
 
i have no lag with my mx518.

Now i do get a "blurring" effect if theres too much motion in low quality videos. But i get that same problem on CRTs(My eyes have trouble with it)

So I stand by my 2405FPW being near perfect.
The only thing i wish is that the PIP mode could be made bigger(I have it at largest setting) Or that they included a remote. Or that instead of cyling through dead connections I could go from DVI to Componant and back. Not DVI, Composite, Componant, Then VGA, then Back to DVI
 
This is a thread about the 2405! The panels are different manufactures (Samsung vs LG) and use different tech.

My only advice is to retry testing native rez vs non-native rez with another cordless mouse, you'll probably get the expected results.
Click to expand...

I realize they are not the same panel but the problem has been reported with both, search the forum.

I've tried your suggestion and it never made a difference (different resolutions and refresh rates) -- but like I said a change of mouse made it a non-issue for me.
 
I ran CS in windowed mode. The game's resolution was like 1152x864 or whatever, but the monitor was running at full.
 
Trematode said:
I realize they are not the same panel but the problem has been reported with both, search the forum.

I've tried your suggestion and it never made a difference (different resolutions and refresh rates) -- but like I said a change of mouse made it a non-issue for me.
Click to expand...

Different refresh rates, weren't you using dvi?
 
Hi everyone,

I guess there may be truth to several of the things said here. First of all, analog devices (CRTs) work in real time, LCDs on the other hand do a lot of things due to their digital signal processing, such as scaling, receving DVI signals, etc.

Varying signal latency can be due to slower DSPs on some LCDs - I think the 2405fpw simply has a slower DSP than it should.

It makes sense that the signal processing load (and hence signal latency) can be reduced by going to native resolution - now the DPS doesn't need to do the interpolation & smoothing anymore. On a CRT, this happens simply due to the beam / shadow mask design, but on an LCD you need to compute it all.

Similarly, it might make sense that a VGA input signal requires less processing than the DVI signal and hence is faster, but the reverse might also be true. It all depends on how the various signal pathways compare on a given LCD screen.

Lastly, mouse and graphics drivers might reduce the signal latency on the host PC, especially if you had poor drivers before that caused additional delays in the whole signal chain Mouse-->Mouse driver--> Host PC CPU-->Video card driver-->Video card processor-->DVI receiver chip-->Scaling DSP-->Pixel.

I think it is time we started paying more attention to signal latencies everywhere, in our drivers and in our hardware. In audio applications, low latency drivers already are an advertised high-end feature: ASIO drivers claim less than 2ms latency, compared to probably 100ms for some standard audio drivers:

http://www.soundblaster.com/resources/read.asp?articleid=53937&cat=2
http://www.asio2ks.de/

So, WE DEMAND SIGNAL LATENCY SPECIFICATIONS on everything from now on - drivers, monitors (VGA and DVI inputs separately), graphics cards... etc.
 
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