Dell 2405FPW and Windows Longhorn: not good

J

j4zzee

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Messages
290
It appears that the DRM (digital rights security) movement has muscled into Monitor technology.
Windows Longhorn supports this technology for Monitors
Its called - PVP-OPM (Protected Video Path – Output Protection Management).
The Dell 2405FPW does not support this hooey....

It translates to:
Premium Video and or Multimedia will be shown in reduced quality on a 2405 with Longhorn.
This is because you, the criminal, may be "pirating" said video or multimedia content...
more here : http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000143050582

sad
 
uuhhgg I just bought a 2405 too... it better work or I wil lhave to go macOSX or say windows xp...
 
Also say goodbye to TV Capture cards and hm... no more home media centers and what else... :rolleyes:

I guess Microsoft expects everyone to get a new monitor and/or TV with longhorn :p

Ald
 
I wouldn't think MS would be willing to pass on so many Longhorn sales, but who knows.

My favorite post from engadget's site:

Posted Jul 14, 2005, 7:43 PM ET by strider_mt2k
Dear Microsoft,

CONTENT DELETED PREEMPTIVELY BY POSTER
 
looks like little to no sales for longhorn. Unless someone cracks it and takes out all the crap they added into it
 
for sure.. Im not going to spend 100 bucks for a OS then have to upgrade my monitor that I just spent 1 grand on... err they have to have a version that does'nt have that..
 
osirus35 said:
looks like little to no sales for longhorn. Unless someone cracks it and takes out all the crap they added into it
Click to expand...
yeah exactly what I was thinking

until that happens I'm not buying :p

I understand what it does, but I still don't quite get what it applies to. What content is it that we watch now that would fall into this protected category and what does your monitor have to do with restricting quality viewing.
 
Topher said:
I understand what it does, but I still don't quite get what it applies to. What content is it that we watch now that would fall into this protected category and what does your monitor have to do with restricting quality viewing.
Click to expand...
From what I can tell.. current DVDs etc won't be affected.
Its the new High Definition DVDs and 1080i content starting to roll out that conform to this protection crap.
For all the pieces to work with DRM the host OS aka Windows Longhorn has to support it.

Without a "compliant" monitor, it is assumed that you must be using "capture" technology to copy the High Definition signal...

ARRRGH Matey... I feel like such a Pirate
 
Just dont waste your money on longhorn then. They restrict the consumer so much that sooner or later you will have to call Bill just to ask if you can watch a little video clip of your own wedding.

You have to have a monitor with this software built in. You have to have a dvi connector, what next...you need to make a certain amount of money per year and donate to the media companies to access content? That is insane!!! They should just put a sticker on all approved items that has a picture of the consumer kissing their the companies butts... because thats how it feels

They never learn. People just wont buy longhorn then. You think its going to stop piracy? Come one piracy is a global business and will never be stopped. Infact i think all this stuff just pushes for more piracy. People dont like being restricted especially when it comes to things they bought and have the right to use however they want. If i want to wipe my butt with my newly bought music cd i shouldnt have to go through some process to make sure that it is alraight to do so.

This is just another waste of money on the companies part. Take the RIAA and music downloads. Legal music downloads up 180% yet RIAA are still crying like babies. Maybe if they would stop raising their paychecks, and start putting out better music they wouldnt be in a slump. But of course they must blame someone else. Its sad and pathetic
 
azzkikur said:
Probably, but how many of us actually buy pre-build computers? :D
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know, not many here. But it makes me upset that the lay person will continue to support Microsoft helplessly and perpetuate a crappy product. Eventually, people with pre-built systems will determine what programs run on which OS. That means eventually there will be Longhorn-only apps (with lots of unsupported bugs on older OS's)
 
By the time you actually *need* Longhorn due to overwhelming software support for it, it'll be time to buy a new monitor anyway. It'll be years, possibly a decade or so, after its release before games and mainstream apps won't be compatible with XP. And it won't be released this year, or next - heck it probably won't even ship in 2007.

I'm not worried. ;)
 
wpeng said:
But all the new systems will come with Longhorn though, won't they?
Click to expand...

It is called reformat, and then reinstall a different OS :D

Windows XP Professional x64 will probably be the last MS OS I use at this rate.
 
This is yet another reason why I'm switching to Kubuntu - or if that doesn't work out some other Linux distro...sooner or later we'll all have to run Linux or our hardware will be useless. Thanks M$! :mad:
 
I agree this is effin retarded but if you read the article it seems to indicate this only effects analog displays. If you have:
If OPM determines that your monitor falls below the security restrictions (i.e. isn’t DVI or HDMI w/HDCP), you could be greeted with a “polite message explaining that [your monitor] doesn’t meet security requirements.”
Click to expand...
.
So if you use DVI you should be fine. It says OR, not AND.
 
Riptide_NVN said:
I agree this is effin retarded but if you read the article it seems to indicate this only effects analog displays. If you have:
.
So if you use DVI you should be fine. It says OR, not AND.
Click to expand...
No, it affects any display without DVI _and_ HDCP.
 
Elledan said:
No, it affects any display without DVI _and_ HDCP.
Click to expand...
The article is confusing on this point. Because it said "or" in the section I quoted. I take it they should've used "and" instead there?
 
morpheus6d9 said:
this makes no sense i guess ill be using win 2k and xp pro for a little bit longer
Click to expand...
Doesn't matter, if high-def content is protected, it's not going to play at full resolution without the proper OS and hardware support. Don't like DRM, the only thing you can do is to refuse to buy the DRM protected content.

Riptide_NVN said:
The article is confusing on this point. Because it said "or" in the section I quoted. I take it they should've used "and" instead there?
Click to expand...
They really mean DVI with HDCP or HDMI with HDCP.
 
Don't worry guys...

If MS continues down this path, we will make an O/S without this crap (if Linux hasn't already worked out...)

Just give what the people what, and they will come.
 
Great, I needed an excuse to switch to linux. Really, the only thing that has kept me is games and that I haven't used Linux before... Even my computer illiterate friends have started switching to easy distro's like Ubunto
 
And if you switch to Macs or Linux, nothing changes. The protection is at the content level by the content providers. Without the necessary OS and hardware support, you're not going to get the full resolution media. Unless it gets cracked but then it shouldn't matter which platform you run. Or nobody buys the protected content and consequentially force the providers to change.
 
That's really dumb then, why does the industry want to mandate which display devices I want to use? I really hope this doesn't become a mainstream thing since I am a customer and this is the display device I've chosen to use to show my content LEGALLY. Great way to kill off legal customers while trying to stop piracy. I really hope this all comes about as a huge failure, if not I will be the first in line to download the illegal hack so that I can watch the content I legally own but have been restricted to watch...
 
well in the event that the DRM works across all platforms, i retract the first half of my statement, which leaves me w/ saying only this:

those bastards!! :mad:

 
Vote with your wallets.

If consumers don't support DRM then they won't sell it.

If morons complain and then go out and buy the latest movies on DRM protected content, AND go out and buy new monitors so they can watch them...then DRM will become the de facto standard.

Would we prefer if MIcrosoft did *not* support what the MPAA and the RIAA are pushing as standard?

Write to your congressman and tell him you are against the elimination of Fair Use rights through technology.

You'll also never be able to watch a high definition DVD on a Linux system if this all comes to pass.
 
Gel214th said:
Vote with your wallets.

If consumers don't support DRM then they won't sell it.

If morons complain and then go out and buy the latest movies on DRM protected content, AND go out and buy new monitors so they can watch them...then DRM will become the de facto standard.

Would we prefer if MIcrosoft did *not* support what the MPAA and the RIAA are pushing as standard?

Write to your congressman and tell him you are against the elimination of Fair Use rights through technology.

You'll also never be able to watch a high definition DVD on a Linux system if this all comes to pass.
Click to expand...


Or plan F:

Read a book!
 
bit shit and stupid, even an idiot would realise that dell being a major pc suppplier worldwide

that ms decide to fuck with its top of the range screen would mean iits shooting it self into foot
 
Say with me .. Longhorn = a pile of YAWN ... Does it worry anyone else that microsoft seems to be spending so much time on shit that will annoy or otherwise not enrich our computing experience? :)

This is another technology that Microsoft has announced for the benefit of the copyright-holding corporations that doesn't really have much substance or matter much technically in the long run. There have thus far been countless attempts at DRM technologies and one after the next has fallen to simple hacks -- they can never think of everything and no mass-market protection technology can last long.

Traditionally, in DRM discussion, I have seen a lot of people say that if the vendors can collude to the point of securing the connection from your CPU all the way down to your speakers/monitor, they will have succeeded in locking away the content (assuming the underlying scheme is strong enough). I personally do not know if HDMI or MS's method or whatever is going to be the one that finally locks it out, but at some point, they might succeed in doing it.

If that's the case, it will make life difficult and cause huge headaches for the majority of people that just want to aquire their content legally, *and* do as they please with it... Why should they control what you do with the DVD you just bought? Why does it matter so much that I want to control how and when I watch an episode of my favourite TV show? What would be so wrong with me cutting it into pieces and playing with it in a video editing program? Why the big rush to limit creativity and remixability? We're entering into a golden age of sampling and remixing and for some bizzare reason, where they could see an opportunity to sell us more creativity software/tools/hardware, they instead see some sort of devious plot to rob them of their "intellectual property"...

Meanwhile the grubby kiddies of the world who have 18 hours a day to devote to this nonsense get away with a couple clicks and some fancy hacks that will essentially render these protections useless, and the honest among us will have got screwed again.

I don't know about the rest of you guys.. and I know a lot of you are hardcore gamers and so-on.. But for me, as a developer and casual gamer, I can't really see myself being interested in Longhorn in any shape or form. Right now it looks like a frightful mess of misguided, legacy-ridden and hackish UI design -- in other words, a piece of junk. And when I hear that microsoft is spending all this time designing fragile and complicated DRM schemes instead of improving the usability.. it just makes me sad that we are going to be dealing with this level of crappyness for another who-knows-how-many years instead of moving forward with something fresh and interesting. OS X and Linux may be gaining ground but the reality is that Longhorn is going to sell -- and will sell well -- and those of us who hate it and what it stands for will have to deal with it whether we like it or not.

And THAT my friends, sucks :)
 
The real problem is that MS is trying to release a new OS when people aren't calling for it. With window's 98 and before there were serious stability problems, MS needed to create a new OS to even have one that is truly workable. But now, they have a system that is actually working pretty well and they are not making any more money on upgrades. So they have to do something to create a need for their new product, and what better than this? If you want to watch your HD-DVDs on your computer, you have to buy Longhorn. They are trying to creat a push for upgrades. And they are trying to appease the super bitchy RIAA and MPAA. Those bastards are a whole other story,... its not like the movie/music business is no longer profitable,... or anything close to that, they are just afraid that the industry will change and they won't be able to steal the artist's money anymore. Honestly,... RIAA cries about *intellectual property*... the artists who own the property make pennies on the dollar for the cd's that we are supposedly not buying.
 
I refuse to buy content or hardware with that crap built in. THey should be allowed to restrict hardware like that. The OS i could care less about... i will just keep XP around or switch to linux.
 
Just pirate everything in full quality and don't waste your money on actual DVDs or premium content - your problem is solved as unprotected content will play fine. As usual anti-piracy schemes hurt only the honest customers while making absolutely no difference for the pirates or in this case probably helping them as pirated content will become more widespread.

I for one am switching over to Linux so dealing DRM of any sort for me is an abstract idea. Perhaps I'll pickup an Apple when they release X86 based versions as a second computer if I really decide I want to get DRM content. There's no way in hell I'm trusting Microsoft to maintain a stable or sane DRM system. Things such as this Monitor based DRM crap give further evidence of that, not that it was lacking before.

Maybe OSX-x86 will kick Longhorn's ass? (I hope!)
 
this is a big do about nothing... it will be years after Longhorn's release before anyone will have to upgrade to it from XP..

Its not like overnight your going to have to upgrade to Longhorn to run Office...Firefox or any games..
 
Thank god we won't have to upgrade, Longhorn will probably slow our games down to a halt.

And what about CRT monitors, any DRM?
 
As a few others have stated, the real problem is in DRM and the HDCP system itself since it requires the consumer to have all HDCP compliant hardware to watch digital HD content. Microsoft is just going with the DRM flow and creating a way so people can watch HDCP protected content on their computer. If there is no PVP-OPM system or something like it, then we won't be able to watch ANY HDCP protected content with a computer, regardless of operating system, without lowering the quality with HD component video (analog).

So if consumers want high quality, all digital HD content on the PC, they'll have to get HDCP compliant devices all around, and that includes the operating system AND the monitor. Now, it sucks that the Dell 2405FPW and other 1920x1200 monitors aren't compliant now, but there's not much we can do unless you want to fight the RIAA/MPAA/DRM/HDCP/etc. I guess we'll just have to wait for compliant monitors to come to the market.

Are there actually any HDCP compliant LCD [computer] monitors coming out in the near future? Preferably with HDMI?
 
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