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Debian vs gentoo

T

tshontikidis

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 6, 2004
Messages
168
I am a complete linux n00b, i have worked with mandrake and knoppix, booth any one can use for the most part and did not challenge me enough, though it did throw a few bones and what not. But for a while i have not touched a linux box and i read an article in maxpc i believe about an editor that went complete linux for 6months and it inspired me. I wont to take my old box and make that my linux box just to play around with and broaden my horizons.

so i have come to 2 distros that are my finals Debain and Gentoo(not to say that i am not open to similar distros) and for those to check out the distro thread, i have and i have read most but i want to target these 2 distros. It would be cool to hear from people that have used both or just one, to point out any key differences they saw and what not. also even if you have not used either but you know about them that is cool because i am a n00b and you know more than i do so any insight would be helpful.

Basic line: Debian vs Gentoo
1. Differences
2>maybe some pros or cons
3. what do you prefer
4. Any info you have
5. your favorite teeniebopper movie

mine is 10 things i hate about you:haha: dead serious


thanks
 
Gentoo
More involved configuring
Very customizable
Very up to date
long install
great user community
Very good for learning
All configuration done manually unless specific tool sare manually installed
Great package system

Debian (Official)
Not as up to date as Gentoo, especially in the stable branchs
Most configuing is done through scripts
Easy installs
Not as customizable as Gentoo
well developed package system and lots of 3rd party support


I guess thats the main differences, both target the more experienced linux users. Both provide good learning environment, Gentoo a bit more since a lot of stuff is done manually. Both have some well developed community support, I do like Gentoo's better though. Both have a very large range of packages available.

I suggest Debian I guess unless your willing to make a fairly large commitment to Gentoo. It takes awhile to get use to the system, you will fuck it up, just don't let that get you down, it's a learning experience. I learned more installing and using Gentoo than I did in 2 years using Debian. But I am a bit bias, I really love the way gentoo works.
 
yea i was leading towards debain for a first run because this is not my main box so i can install and reinstall when ever i want. I understand i will be a bit more involved with gentoo i think i might wait.

Also since you have to compile many things would the computer i am running it with drag it down, i will be running a pretty old box
1ghz
256sdram (maybe+64)
onboard video

its an old sony vaio 1st generation i believe
 
I use to have gentoo on my p3 800Mhz 256MB RAM laptop it worked fine.

I even had it on my server, K6-2, 200Mhz, 48MB RAM which is now my Debian box.

It takes awhile to compile but it works great afterwards.
 
Another one you might look at, is Slackware. Its a bit more invovled then Debian, and in some ways Gentoo, but also a bit simpler as well. The biggest difference, is the simplicity of the package system, as it doesn't use any form of dependency checks for you. This means you need to do this for yourself. I personally don't mind it, but some see it as an issue.

Also, I would like to add, once you have a Linux distro or two under your belt so to speak, and are no longer really feeling chalanged, check out one of the BSD's (Free, Open, Net, Firefly, ETC). They are a little different under the hood, although most of the interface (shells, X, file system structure)is similar, but the differences, may give you something to work on. Well, thats my input, hope others will fallow.
 
I would recommend gentoo for exactly the reason that many people don't: it has no installer. Instead, it has a bunch of very thourough and helpful documentation that will help you through your install. By doing the install manually you will learn a lot (although it's a bit tedious).

I wouldn't recommend gentoo in all situations (and I like debian too) but if you want to broaden your horizons, I think gentoo is the way to go.
 
I just finished installing gentoo on my 800mhz laptop. It's definitely an amazing learning experience since you truly do work from the ground up.

I have one question though... what steps do I follow to get up to a GUI system. I know I need to emerge a bunch of packages like xfree and kde, but does anyone have tips? I'm basically at a text only stage immediately after the completion of the install guide.

Thanks!
 
Eh, its a mix of docs, and some of the work predone for you (the stage tarballs). The portage system is nice. If any one doesn't know where some of the concept for Portage came from, it was FreeBSD's ports system, that was some of the basis, although the gentoo team have done alot of work that does differ it alot. You can also often get prebuilt packages instead, if their are any avalible for your arch, so if the machine is a bit slow, you don't always have to wait forever to compile it.

PorkCharSui said:
I just finished installing gentoo on my 800mhz laptop. It's definitely an amazing learning experience since you truly do work from the ground up.

I have one question though... what steps do I follow to get up to a GUI system. I know I need to emerge a bunch of packages like xfree and kde, but does anyone have tips? I'm basically at a text only stage immediately after the completion of the install guide.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Well, first, I would probably do "emerge --pretend kde" to see how many packages it would be building by default. This will also include X and whatnot. If you want to login graphicly, build KDM as well. You might find KDM will require the same packages as KDE (as its part of the kde project), and then some. So I believe, if you don't mind having it run a while, you could compile both, using emerge kde kdm, wait a fair amount of time while it compiles (and this will probably take a long time, so I suggest getting it started just before you head to sleep, as you will probably wake up before its done). After this, you need to setup your X config file, I don't really have the space to put all of that in here, but you should be able to find more info on that, as its no really Gentoo specific either. Once that is completed, you can probably edit /etc/rc.conf and set your login manager (don't know the exact variable in the config file, should be able to find it though), and set it to KDM, as well as uncomment it. Then, do an "rc-update add xdm default", and that will have gentoo start KDM at boot time. then, you can reboot and should be good. You can start KDM without rebooting, but I can't remeber where the xdm rc script is held, I think its /etc/init.d/ but I could be wrong. if it is, you should be able to simply execute that as root, and have it come up.
 
In the end you're going to be editting the same config files. The choice then doesn't become ease of use but rather the path to get there:

Candy-GUI install with Debian or
Classic-Console install with Gentoo.

The hard points of Gentoo install are:
o Picking your USE flags

Everything else is (in the install process) basically automated. Configuring your NIC is done via net-config or something. The docs tell you exactly how to partition your disks. Setting up the kernel can be done with genkernel, which will build everything as a module so you really can't fuck it up.

If you're after speed of installation you can use a Stage 3 wich bypasses much of the compiling or you can use GRP which is all binary packages (no compiling).

Packages in Gentoo are easy to add (well, as long as they don't use some weird build process like GCC or XFree). The install process for any given package is defined by an .ebuild (and optionally referenced .eclass) files. These are plain text and pretty easy to write once you know the BASH-like syntax.
 
The biggest advantage of Gentoo imho is Portage. Portage is great! It's so easy to type emerge <nameOfPackage> in a terminal to install a program. However, Debian does have something similar with apt-get right?

Tips on Install
1. 2.6 kernels are 'easier' to use. (Easier in the sense of the ALSA drivers being built in to the kernel.)
2. I've always used "Stage 3" when installing. I think you're supposed to use Stage 1 and 2 if you want to make some special customizations to your box, but I've never had any problems using Stage 3.
3. The install of a Stage 3 doesn't take too long, but installing xorg and kde/gnome, etc does take a long time.
4. Your computer specs should handle it- I'm not so sure about the ram, obviously more would be good, but should run.
 
Personally I don't think either is a great setup for a complete linux noob as you described yourself. You might take a look at a middle step and use a debian based distro like Ubuntu or something. At least then you'll get some work learning about apt, where config files are and such, but without the complete shocker of building form the ground up.


As to your specific questions:
1. never tried Gentoo, I looked at the install docs once and just said screw it.
2. Pros for debian
large number of packages so software maint is easy
large install base I've always managed to find help on problems
very lean system if you set it up from scratch. I just installed a new system that was under 400mb for a full working apache/php/mysql/bind/dhcp-server/subversion server and it took about 30 minutes on a T1 line from a netinst disk
You can do everything with debian from bare server to full desktop so you can learn one system and work with it across the board rather than using this OS for your server needs, this one for your laptop, this for your desktop
3. Debian man, 6 machines of it (laptop, 2 desktops, and 3 servers)
4. Google Groups is your friend
5. bueller, bueller...
 
Since you have some experience with Linux, and just want a box to play with and learn more - Gentoo (starting install with stage 1) is the way to go. It will take time and patience, but since it is not going to be your main rig - there is no rush. You can take your time compiling and installing.
The best tip I can give: Read through the install process a few times before you even start, anything your not sure of or don't completely understand - Google it. Even if you get stuck during the install - Google the problem and retry. There is tons of info you can find through Google to explain any part of the install and operation of Gentoo.
 
i've never used debian, so i can't comment on it.

i can only join the chorus singing gentoo's praises.

linux distribution preference is a lot like religion, the one you learned first usually seems the best.

the best teen movie by far is can't hardly wait. ferris bueller's day off and risky business are better, but they are in a whole other category.
 
PorkCharSui said:
I just finished installing gentoo on my 800mhz laptop. It's definitely an amazing learning experience since you truly do work from the ground up.

I have one question though... what steps do I follow to get up to a GUI system. I know I need to emerge a bunch of packages like xfree and kde, but does anyone have tips? I'm basically at a text only stage immediately after the completion of the install guide.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Gentoo has a bunch of documentation for setting up desktops,
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/index.xml?catid=desktop

KDE
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/kde-config.xml

Gnome
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gnome-config.xml
 
"I am a complete linux n00b, i have worked with mandrake and knoppix, booth any one can use for the most part and did not challenge me enough"

now that's the kind of criticism we like :D

(i work for mdksoft / mandriva...)
 
AdamW said:
"I am a complete linux n00b, i have worked with mandrake and knoppix, booth any one can use for the most part and did not challenge me enough"

(i work for mdksoft / mandriva...)
Click to expand...


what, is that bad or good??

Also I wanted to thank everyone, i am going to go with Debian because i read other places and i like the apt-get, and i know gentoo has a similar but that is what i am going with.

thanks
 
Only do gentoo if your uber brave, i just did a 2hour session of configuring a setup f'ed up on the lilo booter. I feel like committing suicide right now, right now we're going back to what is for the most part trustable Debian Sarge. So if you dont want an early death go debian, if an early death doesn't bother you then gentoo is the way to go.
 
locutus24 said:
Only do gentoo if your uber brave, i just did a 2hour session of configuring a setup f'ed up on the lilo booter. I feel like committing suicide right now, right now we're going back to what is for the most part trustable Debian Sarge. So if you dont want an early death go debian, if an early death doesn't bother you then gentoo is the way to go.
Click to expand...

lilo is fairly straightforward and you also have an option of using grub. I just happen to prefer lilo. ;)
 
I enjoy debian on my x86 architecture because its so easy to do a custom config. If I dont want X, I dont install X. I would echo the lean installs. While true the "stable" branch of debian is about as current as win98se install, the unstable and testing branches are fairly bleeding edge. I went with Debian for the amd64 port. If you want to learn linux, pick debian 64 and update it daily. Something will break, the challenge is to fix it when it does happen. :)
 
alright i am downloading Debian via Jigdo, which was an experience all on its own.

I am putting it on an old AMD athlon so i am getting the i386 arch, i really thought that would be the choice. Is that right, i386arch, is it what i want to download?
 
Jigdo ppl actually use jigdo, wow im impressed buddy but i386 will suit you just fine
 
Apt-get for Debian and Portage for Gentoo work pretty much the same.

And there are many distros based on Debian. Some even with cutting edge packages like Ubuntu. So you can have a very up to date system with an easy installer.
 
locutus24 said:
Jigdo ppl actually use jigdo, wow im impressed buddy but i386 will suit you just fine
Click to expand...

HAHA! holy crap jigdo, it took me like 4 days to figure it out. Seriously i downloded almost all the CDs and then i relized i did not complete the last step of getting the ISO's. Believe me, it was a learning experince that i will never need to know.

that brings me to a second question, on the debian site there are all 7cds and also 2 update files
debian-update-3.0r4-i386-1.jigdo 03-Jan-2005 16:04 25k
debian-update-3.0r4-i386-1.template 03-Jan-2005 14:32 488k
debian-update-3.0r4-i386-2.jigdo 03-Jan-2005 16:04 7k
debian-update-3.0r4-i386-2.template 03-Jan-2005 14:33 170k

what are these updates, and should i run them after the install or during?
 
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