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Dead TwinMOS SP

D

DarkenReaper57

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 2, 2003
Messages
2,173
Well, I bought two 512 MB sticks of TwinMOS SP for my MSI K8N Neo2 PE. I put them both in slots 1 and 2, booted, and the system did not POST. I determined that it was a memory problem by the USB POST detector PCI slot thing that is supplied by MSI (handy little thing).

Well, I tried each stick individually, and the system POST'd with one of them, but not the other. I tried many different combinations, and I had no luck.

Anyway, I bought the sticks off of the egg. What do I do, a RMA (I have not done this before)? Will I need to pay for the shipping costs?

Thanks.
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
that one that won't boot up is bad then. rma it ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah, it kinda blows :(. Will newegg cover the shipping costs? I believe that they should, since I have a defective item...

Just for the record, I am not totally angry. I realize that this kind of thing happens.

I just filled out a RMA. Are they usually quick about these things?
 
they're pretty quick. they'll cover shipping back to you, but you have to pay to send it to them. good luck with getting a new stick :D
in the meantime, how's the working one doing? :p
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
they're pretty quick. they'll cover shipping back to you, but you have to pay to send it to them. good luck with getting a new stick :D
in the meantime, how's the working one doing? :p
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I haven't had time to tinker with the system yet. I have a big history paper due thursday, and I wasted all day putting the system together...

I'll be sure to let you guys know how the TwinMOS works in the MSI K8N Neo2...I don't see that combo too often.

Oh yeah, I am going to do the 3.3 Vdimm mod :). That should allow me to hit some good timings and/or speed. I just need to find out where to mount the darn switch...
 
Well, I have been tinkering with my system. It seems as though I cannot get this memory to go past about 220-225 FSB at 2.85 Vdimm. I am, however, able to maintain 2-2-2-8 at these clocks. I have tried loosening the timings to 2.5-3-3-8; no go.

I have no sata drives and the ports are disabled within the bios.

Hopefully after I do the 3.3V mod, I will be able to get better clocks. What do you guys think?

Oh yeah, a little off topic. So far I have been able to hit about 2.5 ghz stable with my venice core (I am still fiddling with it). What is the common vcore necessary to get to 2.6 or 2.8 ghz?

Thanks.
 
If it doesn't POST at all, the RAM could just be incompatible- not necessarily defective. It's unlikely presuming they use the same chips, but it's always a possibility.
 
3.3v should definitly help the ram oc, just make sure you keep it cool :D

also, it seems that anywhere from 1.4v to 1.6v is needed for 2.6-2.8ghz. i personally wouldn't go over 1.6v for long term use :p
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
3.3v should definitly help the ram oc, just make sure you keep it cool :D

also, it seems that anywhere from 1.4v to 1.6v is needed for 2.6-2.8ghz. i personally wouldn't go over 1.6v for long term use :p
Click to expand...

Hmm, is good case airflow good enough to keep the memory cool? I read that heatspreaders do next to nothing.

How cool do you need to keep the cpu? I'm using the stock HSF atm, and it ramps up to 57C...a little hot for my blood.

I'll probably be able to push the chip more once I install the new w/c system.
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
ouch, i would keep it as cool as you can get it.
seems like you either need to clean off some dust, or remount the heatsink. try both! :D
http://arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions_big2.htm

and w/c worked out amazingly for me. went from ~55c full load at max oc settings to 35c load. i had a zalman before :eek:
Click to expand...

Well, it idle's fairly low, at like 39-42ish, and I really doubt that it is a mounting problem (but hey, ya never know). I used a small BB sized drop of AS5 in the center, smeared some on the HSF (then removed it with a lint-free cloth) and mounted the thing.

I think I just need to get the w/c system in there, hehe. Hopefully I can at least hit 2.7...
 
Wow, this thread has gotten of topic, lol.

Anyway, I think my max htt is 315 at a 3x setting in the bios. I tested at a 6x multiplier, and a 2/3 divider for the memory.

Does this mean that my high temperatures could be holding me back from higher max overclocks?
 
Oh man, I just took a look at my memory, and it is BH-%! :p

This explains why I can't go anywhere at 2.85V

Hopefully new stick newegg sends back to me is also BH-5. Does anyone know how CH chips and BH-5 mix?
 
ch sticks typically need a bit more voltage, and looser secondary timings. you shouldn't really have a problem mixing them though
 
ive bought 4 sticks of twinmos sp in the past 2 weeks
all of them are bh-5
 
honkee said:
ive bought 4 sticks of twinmos sp in the past 2 weeks
all of them are bh-5
Click to expand...
nice, i guess the BH UTT is ramping up a bit then? and is cheaper to make? who knows... haha
just out of curiosity, where did you get them from?
 
W00t, I got my RMA stick today, and it too is BH-5 :p . Hopefully this one works. I am going to test it now.
 
Damn...happening a lot lately...now I just need an excuse to buy more memory...
 
got 2 more sticks from newegg this week of twinmos for a friend.
all my ram shipped from their NEW JERSEY factory and all have been BH-5.

and they all run 2,2,2 at 2.6 volts.
they other sticks that couldnt do cas 2 was just user error on my behalf

better hop on them now while they still under 50 bucks
cant believe im 8 for 8 on the bh-5's
 
honkee said:
got 2 more sticks from newegg this week of twinmos for a friend.
all my ram shipped from their NEW JERSEY factory and all have been BH-5.

and they all run 2,2,2 at 2.6 volts.
they other sticks that couldnt do cas 2 was just user error on my behalf

better hop on them now while they still under 50 bucks
cant believe im 8 for 8 on the bh-5's
Click to expand...

Nice :) Unfortunately, I am stuck at about 220 FSB at 2.85 Vdimm. I have even loosened my timings to 2.5-3-3-8; no luck. I hope that the 3.3 Vdimm mod will allow me to reach higher clocks on this memory (why wouldn't it?).
 
that's about right. my "real" bh-5 that is single sided tops out around 220-225mhz with 2.8v
you just need to give it a lot more voltage to really get anywhere. and make sure there's a fan on it when you go over 3v :D
 
BTW Newegg only has 8 left as of this moment :p I also tried something out which I thought was pretty cool. I ordered the maximum at Newegg and found that they only had 12 left and then I went to chiefvalue.com and found out they only had 12 left. I ordered 4 from newegg and then checked Chiefvalue and they only had 8 left at the same time. So it's apparent to me that they share inventories. I figured that's how they did it, but now I'm near 100% positive.
 
cheifvalue = newegg

no idea why, but also notice that they use the same pictures for everything
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
cheifvalue = newegg

no idea why, but also notice that they use the same pictures for everything
Click to expand...
I'm sure it's to evaluate pricing and marketing. Like test a certain price and see if they make more money due to volume or whatever, chiefvalue also has those daily deals which I appreciate. Newegg probably still gets more than 80% of customers between the two so they can try more drastic measures with chiefvalue I suppose. Other companies on pricewatch certainly do it. I think there's a corporate interest in the Rosewill brand also. Either it's owned partially or wholly by the parent company of newegg/chiefvalue or they have some sort of special deal. I don't know exactly what the affiliation is, however.
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
that's about right. my "real" bh-5 that is single sided tops out around 220-225mhz with 2.8v
you just need to give it a lot more voltage to really get anywhere. and make sure there's a fan on it when you go over 3v :D
Click to expand...

Yeah, I will probably want to fan the memory, but I am not exactly sure where to mount the fans. I have a couple 80mm fans lying around, and I think 1 would be sufficient, but the difficulty if finding a mounting place that looks good and is effective.

Is it ok to blow across the sticks as opposed to onto them?

What if I positioned the fan such that it faced down, and blew top down onto the sticks? The only problem with this is one stick is on top of the other, since they are horizontal on the MSI K8N Neo2.

Suggestions?
 
my favorite method is to thread a rubberbands through the screw holes on the fan, and loop it over the latches on the dimms.. that should hold down most fans :D
 
Everyone I've seen with an XP-90 basically holds it on with rubber bands and paper clips...
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
ouch, i would keep it as cool as you can get it.
seems like you either need to clean off some dust, or remount the heatsink. try both! :D
http://arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions_big2.htm

and w/c worked out amazingly for me. went from ~55c full load at max oc settings to 35c load. i had a zalman before :eek:
Click to expand...

w/c = watercooling correct?

how much did it cost you and how hard was it to install/maintain??

are w/c kits also transferable between new mobos/vid cards/cpus ? or do you have to get new attachments?
 
Im underwhelmed by this "new" BH memory. I have tried it in NF4 DFI SLI-DR and it is weak.

Does 250Mhz 8,2,2,2.0 3.3Vdimm, but at 1T setting it errors in memtest 1.55 test#8 regardless of settings. THis leads also to failing StressPrime after a couple hours too.

I have 4 sticks of the "CH" based UTT Twinmos sticks which do 4x512M 250Mhz 8,2,2,2.0 2T 3.3V 100% flawless/stable or any 2x512M of them do 260Mhz 8,2,2,2.0 1T 3.3Vdimm also flawlessly with total stability. Plus the "CH" stuff does 240-250Mhz @ 3.4Vdimm with 1T setting in NForce2 boards!!! The "BH" stuff wont go past 210Mhz 1T in NF2 systems.
 
yeah it wont do 1t on any of my dfi boards.
but will hit higher fsbs.
but then again i thought 1t/2t didnt matter for socket 754

maybe for you 939 people
 
You guys are funny saying that it won't do 1T.

ALL DDR can do 1T. It's just a matter of the memory controller being able to handle it. Blame your shitty CPU's, not the ram.
 
robberbaron said:
You guys are funny saying that it won't do 1T.

ALL DDR can do 1T. It's just a matter of the memory controller being able to handle it. Blame your shitty CPU's, not the ram.
Click to expand...
True.dat
 
Peanut gallery alert.

Meantime, back in reality. My "shitty" CPU does 260Mhz x10 1T 8,2,2,2.0 @ 3.4Vdimm 2x512M 100% stable, stressprime, 26m54s SuperPI32M.... and it does this with any one of 4 sets of Twinmos TMII or SP UTT-CH sticks I have. It also does 250Mhz 2T with 4x512M 8,2,2,2.0 @ 3.3Vdimm. But you're right its a lousy memory controller.

OR

The new BH5 based ram all sucks ass. Hmm, wonder which is the truth.

The new BH ram.... brand new ValueVX OCZ ram does 250Mhz no problem 2x512M @ 3.3Vdimm, but does NOT pass test#8 memtest 1.55.1 with 1T set, only 2T passes. No amount of fiddling with timings, voltages, etc will get it to pass test#8 (hundreds of errors) at 1T.

Funny how the CH based ram... the REAL "VX" doesnt have any issues like that, though it does require high voltage...3.3V+ to shine. Hmmm DFI NF4 SLI-DR has voltage to spare, so THAT isnt an issue.

Other thing about new BH, it dont work for shit in NF7-S or other NF2 boards.... just like OLD BH5 512M sticks.... same 1T no good issue.

But you're right, like all the know it alls here, must be the CPU.
 
Actually it is the CPU. All memory can run at 1T or 2T. There is SOMETHING about SOME TIMING in the BH that your memory controller cant handle. Not every memory controller is fully compatible with every type of memory.

I just cannot stress it enough: The command rate is a limitation of the MEMORY CONTROLLER, NOT THE MEMORY.


Don't believe me? Then why can an A64 memory controller only be able to run 4 double sided dimms at 2T but cant post at 1T, regardless of the memory used? Is it because the ram all of a sudden begins to suck? No, it's because the command rate is a memory controller limitation! I suggest reading more about it though before you just go spouting off your disappointment in memory that really wasnt stellar to begin with.
 
robberbaron said:
I just cannot stress it enough: The command rate is a limitation of the MEMORY CONTROLLER, NOT THE MEMORY.
Click to expand...
there are times when the ram chips can't take the stress of the lower latency 1T, thus getting a better overclock with 2T, but yes, i will second this
 
Simple diagnostic work, and logic dictates.

If the memory controller can....with OTHER BETTER ram.... handle much higher Mhz with the SAME super tight timings, then this new BH ram simply is not up to snuff. The memory controller is fine.

A brand new SanDiego 3700+, having no problem running 2x512M of CH based UTT at 260Mhz dual channel 1T 8,2,2,2.0 260x11 @ 1.52Vcore 3.3Vdimm, would tend to PROVE the memory controller is in fact EXCELLENT. Same controller does 250Mhz 2T with FOUR 512M sticks of the same ram, 250x11 without breaking a sweat.

If the UTT CH ram handles 260Mhz error free 1T, and the new UTT BH cant pass test#8 in memtest 1.55.1 at even 200Mhz, then the BH is simply not cutting it. The $350 A64 is not the issue here, it has proven itself more than capable as has the UTT CH ram.... 8 Gigs of it. Hell even my 6 Gigs of OLD BH5 passes test#8 with the SAME timings, but peaks at 225Mhz 1T 2x512M and 225Mhz 2T 4x512M.

Backing _ME_ up is a large number of people at XtremeSystems and DFISTREET having the same issues with the new BH in NF2, NF3 and NF4 systems. But I guess we are all crazy and YOU are right.

And my NF2 memory controller must also be defective, since the UTT CH does 250Mhz 1T 8,2,2,2.0 @ 3.45Vdimm 2x512M while the new BH wont go past 210Mhz 1T (3.0-3.6Vdimm) without errors in all tests. Yep thats it, my memory controllers are all defective, the ram is god.

Meantime, regardless of these braindeads assertions, HEADS UP to anyone thinking of picking up any NEW BH based sticks...Twinmos SP or OCZ ValueVX, etc....as it may be a disappointment. End of story.
 
People are so excitable when faced with the possibility that they might *gasp* be wrong about something. You'd think they'd be happy to have a new possibility to look in to, instead of insisting they must be absolutely right.

That and it's just funny watching someone with a n00bie sticker try to bitch out two of the more active names on the memory forum both telling him the same thing.
 
noobie sticker, thats funny as hell.

Dude, Ive been a electronics engineer for 20 years and design shit more complex than these motherboards all the time.

Just because I finally bothered to register and speak here doesnt mean I havent been reading [H] for many years. Its usually so full of BS'rs yapping I refrain from bothering.

Just felt like mentioning/warning fellow users about the new-BH sticks not being the greatest thing since sliced bread.

But go ahead and buy away, knock yourself out, enjoy.
 
just because hes a noobie to hardforums, you cant go and assume that he doesnt know anything about memory.
and to be honst with you, if he registered just to post in this thread, then obviously he has some valid input on the topic.

i had some older bh-5 and i thought those were crap, im having better luck with the new bh-5's
 
Who said that 2T is no good? ;) Heres with 4x512 and 2T...
fx55bn16k4mw.jpg
 
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