DDR Dual Chanel Or No?

N

NotSoSimple

[H]F Junkie
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May 17, 2003
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Is it worth it to go dual channel? I know for AMDs its like only a 3% Benchmarking-Noticeable difference.

Im planning an upgrade, and will be OCing, so is Dual Channel worth it?
 
YES!!!

The P4 is pretty bandwith-hungry, which is why RDRAM was used initially. Overclocking or no, you're depriving your P4 box if you don't go dual-channel.
 
Ok so Dual Channel!

512 or 1GB. Does it make a difference? I really want/need this upgrade, but if I decide 1GB then I will have to wait longer. Is 1GB becoming Standard or will I be fine with only 512mb?
 
512 would be fine, unless you're into memory-hungry apps, then I say 1 gig or whatever you can afford. There is some debate about how to go about 1 gig, as in , 4 x 256 or 2 x 512. IF you have 4 slots, and can't afford 1 gig now, I'd go 2 x 256 for now, and fill the rest when you can. I don't think having all the slots filled makes a HUGE difference, but you'll find many opinions on this.
 
according to intel's white paper documentation, the optimum configuration is all banks filled with equi dimms. this will have the memory controller runing in dynamic paging, dual channel (which is the mode of operation with two equi dimms) . now i have not experience this at all to test the validity of it. it is just a note.

but what i can say is that: one, even on athlon i would always run dual channel-there is a difference on both architectures. two, always have at least a gig of memory, specially with prices as they are. others will not concur with this but i can say from the many years of memory configurations of not only mine but other users that there is a big difference between 512megs and 1gig. the old rule was the more the better. there is truth to it. 512, i and others have found to be little, specially, with most games that are out and will be coming out e.g. doom.


http://support.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/252525.htm

http://support.intel.com/design/chipsets/applnots/252730.htm
 
I gotta laugh. Is it worth it to the every day user? Nope. Have to disagree.

I had a server at work that had 512MB of dual channel. I took the dual channel ram (no i didn't steal it) and replaced it with one stick, hence single channel. Did anyone notice? Nope and neither did i.
 
your observation is based on a different situation. your example is through networking. so of course, through your limited example of what small memory demands there was on your/the server would lead you to your disagreement (other subsystems have more of an affect on the network than memory). now try your observation in a real enterprise workload environment e.g. an insurance company (anthem). you will see your argument is false and mine is true. demand creates the need for more memory. the more you have, specially now, can give a better work environment. so for a user that will have the possibility of expanding his usage of his pc, i would say go for it. considering the cost value of the extra dimm it would be a good future investment.

the thing to remember what dual channel is on both architectures is different, but they achieve the same. also the difference between workload, interrupts, and accessing pages of memory have an impact of the system. once you understand these you will understand the gain of dual channel and why in some cases it will not seem beneficial. lost circuits goes into some explanation of this subject and i think that reading it will help you some.

is it worth it to an everyday user? you can not approach the argument this way. total cost of ownership is the argument that you are trying to achieve. which encompasses what i am saying in the first paragraph.

as i said others will not concur, but you have to always ask who has more experience and understanding of the subject? i laugh at your limited view.
 
For P4s, the dual-channel is necessary. 1GB is also the way to go - the difference between 512MB and a full gig is actually quite noticeable.
 
Originally posted by Mad_Pyro
For P4s, the dual-channel is necessary. 1GB is also the way to go - the difference between 512MB and a full gig is actually quite noticeable.
Click to expand...

I'll put in a huge vote for dual channel and a positive for 1GB too.

even the average joe can notice the difference between 512MB and 1GB of ram.....but not necessarily between single and dual channel, it all depends on what you're doing. I can see how dual channel might not benefit EVERYTHING, but when Windows boots faster from the extra ram.....I'd say that's a nice start.

Also, anyone who is heavily into games nowadays shouldn't look at anything less then 1GB. There are many games out there (the Farcry demo for example) that really do benefit from the extra ram. when I only had 512MB in Far Cry, there were quite a few skips and pauses when stuff in the distance was loading. Now, with 1GB.....it's silky smooth from the second I start the mission.

So you see, you don't have to be into super hardcore apps and things to take advantage of the extra ram and nowadays dual channel is just a standard that should ALWAYS be followed. :cool:
 
I'm going to throw in another vote for the gig of ram. I had a system with a 2 ghz willy. 1GB of Value PC2100, and a 9700 pro, and it ran BF1942 better than the newer system in my sig (all due to the additional 512MB of RAM)
 
i am also gonna put in another vote for 1 gig. Games will suck alot of memory nowadays. plus xp requires at least 256mb. you don't want half of your 512 ram to be used up by xp
 
Originally posted by batotman
I gotta laugh. Is it worth it to the every day user? Nope. Have to disagree.

I had a server at work that had 512MB of dual channel. I took the dual channel ram (no i didn't steal it) and replaced it with one stick, hence single channel. Did anyone notice? Nope and neither did i.
Click to expand...


LOL cause they aint LEET like dat. Busted a swictharoo eh?



Originally posted by NotSoSimple
Is it worth it to go dual channel? I know for AMDs its like only a 3% Benchmarking-Noticeable difference.

Im planning an upgrade, and will be OCing, so is Dual Channel worth it?
Click to expand...


Also keep in mind that when you populate all the dimms slots you are more than likely limited in your overclock. So if you plan on overclocking and want 1GB ram 2x512 would suit you best.
 
Another vote for the dual channel route. If you can afford it, get 1 gig of ram.
 
What kinda though? I dont want to spend more than like $230! Preferrably higher speed RAM too (PC3700 or higher) so it will overclock easier.

I just dont understand what to look for in Cas Latencys or voltage and what not. Time to learn! Mushkin, Corsair XMS, or OCZ? I dont want to go Kingston..Have had buddys that had bad experiences.
 
honestly, i am running a d875pbz with crucial first edition 3-4-4-8 pc3200. i am not far off from a lot of scores. you do not always have to get low latency ram (it CAN be good). depending, on core logic some [low latency ram] might actually decrease scores. nforce2 is a good example others found that 2-2-2-11 created the best scores. controllers need pages of memory at different timings. it can be fun to experiment, but in general the difference never really equals a tremendous performance increase considering the cost. low latency is usually used for overclocking. it used to be just for that extra 5 percent increase with cas 2 back in the day.
 
Originally posted by shaihulud
your observation is based on a different situation. your example is through networking. so of course, through your limited example of what small memory demands there was on your/the server would lead you to your disagreement (other subsystems have more of an affect on the network than memory). now try your observation in a real enterprise workload environment e.g. an insurance company (anthem). you will see your argument is false and mine is true. demand creates the need for more memory. the more you have, specially now, can give a better work environment. so for a user that will have the possibility of expanding his usage of his pc, i would say go for it. considering the cost value of the extra dimm it would be a good future investment.

the thing to remember what dual channel is on both architectures is different, but they achieve the same. also the difference between workload, interrupts, and accessing pages of memory have an impact of the system. once you understand these you will understand the gain of dual channel and why in some cases it will not seem beneficial. lost circuits goes into some explanation of this subject and i think that reading it will help you some.

is it worth it to an everyday user? you can not approach the argument this way. total cost of ownership is the argument that you are trying to achieve. which encompasses what i am saying in the first paragraph.

as i said others will not concur, but you have to always ask who has more experience and understanding of the subject? i laugh at your limited view.
Click to expand...

We also use the server as a workstation and its used quite a bit. No shit in an enterprise situation you're going to need more, captain obvious.

Worth it to an everyday user? Who the hell said this guy wasn't an every day user?

You american capitalistic pigs I spit in your eye.....pffft.....:D

My advice is get the dual channel if you got the cash, but if you don't its not going to hinder performance even noticeably, unless you're an enterprise level insurance company.....lord where do these jackasses crawl out of?
 
it is easy logic, meaning that if your argument held any truth to it that i would be false considering both situations. but you are incorrect in both situations making my argument true. which so far many have concur with.

I gotta laugh. Is it worth it to the every day user? Nope. Have to disagree.
Click to expand...
you were the one that asked that not me


We also use the server as a workstation and its used quite a bit. No shit in an enterprise situation you're going to need more, captain obvious.
Click to expand...
you contradict yourself. enterprise does mean also business. not just serious business. (my previous example is misleading not deliberate though)

enterprise
1 : a project or undertaking that is especially difficult, complicated, or risky
2 : readiness to engage in daring action : INITIATIVE
3 a : a unit of economic organization or activity; especially : a business organization b : a systematic purposeful activity <agriculture is the main economic enterprise among these people> (the pr use it in a robust manner.)

the cash difference for a gig and dual channel is about 90-100. that is not that much money considering tco.
 
Originally posted by NotSoSimple
What kinda though? I dont want to spend more than like $230! Preferrably higher speed RAM too (PC3700 or higher) so it will overclock easier.

I just dont understand what to look for in Cas Latencys or voltage and what not. Time to learn! Mushkin, Corsair XMS, or OCZ? I dont want to go Kingston..Have had buddys that had bad experiences.
Click to expand...


If you are going to overclock I would suggest some Geil PC4200 Ultra Platinum. This ram is costly but I have seen some unreal results with this ram (loose timings 3-4-4-8) @1:1 memory ratio (if your proc can handle super high fsb) as Tedinde pointed out to me. Only problem is that it doesn’t fit your stated budget @ $296 for 2x512MB - http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...144-519&catalog=147&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=0

Things to take into consideration:

1. If your processor maxes out around 250-270 then you don’t need the Geil (or the fastest ram out there) unless you want that extra couple points in memory bandwidth @ 1:1. I would save the money and get something slower with tighter timings (2-2-2-5) and you won’t really notice a difference unless you’re a benchmark freak :rolleyes:

2. You would be fine @ 5:4 with tight timings opposed to 1:1 with loose timings. Again this would be best if your CPU does not scale that high.

Answer: I guess it all comes down to your particular hardware limitations, mainly your CPU, your mobos max FSB (Some mobos crap out at certain MHZ) and your goal. You could always look at it as an investment if you go with the faster stuff but seeing as DDR-II will be coming out relatively soon that would nullify that unless the ultra high latency dimms that are due @ launch will hinder performance. Guess we have to wait to find out.

I recently went through so many types of ram to find my hardware’s limitation and such. I went through Corsair (Like 5 types of it), Samsung, Kingston Hyper X ( 2 types of it), Buffalo, and others ranging from bh-5 to the most recent revisions of ram, speeds starting @ PC3000 to PC4000. I didn’t have the vdimm mod for my mobo so I couldn’t find the absolute peak of the ram I tested but I could get a fairly decent assessment. Some people here are such extremist that they test that x10 fold, I'm not pointing any fingers. I don't blame them as it’s always a crapshoot to find a GEM so to speak.

After all that troubleshooting and recommendations from people here in the forum I have finally made up my mind:

2x256 Geil PC4200 http://www.pricewatch.com/. I know it’s not 1G but it will do as I'm only looking to max my CPU @ 1:1 and save some cash in the process.

If you are a serious overclocker (like most of us in here) choose wisely as RAM could determine your max OC.

If I was incorrect with the info I provided go ahead and school me =) as I usually don’t know what I’m talking about. Wish me luck with this Geil I’m about to order!!!
 
I have the system in my sig and I did some testing yesterday to see if the extra $100 I spent on the other stick (last Spring) was worth it. The performance difference on this nforce2 was 2% on average. I don't think I have ever seen a review comparing single and dual channel on a 865/875 chipset but I'd want to know because I plan on buying an 875 soon.
 
If you ask me........Anyone who doesn't buy a Gig of ram is a fricken moron. Unless of course you spent the night sleeping under a bridge and don't actually own a computer.....that's the only possible way I could consider NOT buying a Gig of ram. :D
 
Originally posted by cornelious0_0
If you ask me........Anyone who doesn't buy a Gig of ram is a fricken moron. Unless of course you spent the night sleeping under a bridge and don't actually own a computer.....that's the only possible way I could consider NOT buying a Gig of ram. :D
Click to expand...

Show me PROOF of this supposed GIG is sooooo great.
 
Unless you play games or do a lot of work with big graphics, you do not need more then 512MB. Years ago when people insisted you needed a gig and I always smirked because I had 384 and guess what, it worked just fine, games and everything. Anyway, the necessity of huge amounts of RAM is still overrated. Up until a year ago I used 384MB (I used that much for 2 years) and everything ran just great. If the RAM is present, the computer will make efficient use of it but if it isn't the computer will compress files in memory and what not. 1GB is rarely necessary.
 
Haha ok so now I am torn. I have both sides going.

Would it better to have 512 of PC3700/4000? Or 1GB of Pc3200?
 
Originally posted by NotSoSimple
Haha ok so now I am torn. I have both sides going.

Would it better to have 512 of PC3700/4000? Or 1GB of Pc3200?
Click to expand...

Even a gig of PC3200 would be nice 'cus PC3200 is a lot more flexible in terms of the ability to crank the FSB and actually make use of both the 5:4 or the 3:2 dividors.......you don't have to go all out with high speed ram and kill your timings in teh process. PC3200/3500 woudl be fine.
 
the proof is in usage. so it will be relative to the end user. i would obviously pick a gig of 3200.
 
I just got an extra 512 to get a gig and I can load programs quicker and it used to take 3 1/2 minutes to burn my cd's and I watched the memory go all the way up to 484 put the gig in and it burned my cd in 2:07. thats a whole minute so go for the gig man
 
the proof is in usage. so it will be relative to the end user. i would obviously pick a gig of 3200.
Click to expand...

Of course it's all in the usage.....but you can't tell me that EVERYONE doesn't enjoy having their computer boot up faster and programs loading faster.;)

With all these crazy speeds of ram out there (PC4000+) PC3200 is getting cheaper and cheaper.....so it makes sense, as does the 1GB half of this. More people will get more out of 1GB then others.....but EVERYONE will gain SOMETHING.
 
Great, I'm gonna have to call my mom and tell her that her 256MB isn't enough for her word processing and internet surfing and she should upgrade IMMEDIATELY.....:rolleyes:
 
how could you have done that to your MOTHER? she should have 2 gigs, if you have any love for her.
 
Great, I'm gonna have to call my mom and tell her that her 256MB isn't enough for her word processing and internet surfing and she should upgrade IMMEDIATELY.....
Click to expand...

Don't be an ass, you know what I mean. I never said that EVERYONE should run out and double or triple their ram just 'cus there are noticeable differences.....I just said that it wouldn't be a complete waste to do so. You know damn well that she most likely doesn't HAVE to upgrade, and I never made that assumption.

I'm sticking by my previous statement(s) on this one.....make all the sarcastic jokes you want.
 
Originally posted by cornelious0_0
If you ask me........Anyone who doesn't buy a Gig of ram is a fricken moron. Unless of course you spent the night sleeping under a bridge and don't actually own a computer.....that's the only possible way I could consider NOT buying a Gig of ram. :D
Click to expand...

Actually I wasn't speaking directly at you but now i will.

ANYONE WHO DOESN'T BUY A GIG OF RAM IS A FREAKING MORON.

A comment on that statement isn't even necessary....lol...:rolleyes: :D
 
Originally posted by batotman
Actually I wasn't speaking directly at you but now i will.

ANYONE WHO DOESN'T BUY A GIG OF RAM IS A FREAKING MORON.

A comment on that statement isn't even necessary....lol...:rolleyes: :D
Click to expand...

I was joking.....sheesh.....can't anyone around here take a joke??? Lighten up dude, why would I actually make a statement like that and then even attempt to stand up behind it???
 
ANYWAY!

PC3200 Mushkin is what Im going to get. Thanks guys for all the comments and the suggestions.
 
Originally posted by cornelious0_0
I was joking.....sheesh.....can't anyone around here take a joke??? Lighten up dude, why would I actually make a statement like that and then even attempt to stand up behind it???
Click to expand...

Hard telling, there's a few people in here that make ridiculous statements like that and then defend it until everyone in the forum gets on them and they shut up. :D

I have 1GB, I actually use it. Most people (ie mom, wife, everyday users) don't even need more than 256MB. Gamers, video editing, OCP freaks, you know the rest, the more memory the merrier!
 
I just ordered another dual pack, 2x256 of Mushkin lvl1 pc 3200 to go with the first pair.
I have good stability, good overclocking and no problems with the Mushkin 3200.
With a gig of ram in it I'll be a happy gamer!
My other machines have 512/ 384 with XP and 256mb's in a win/2kpro box. Oh yeah, lets not forget the 96mb ram in the Win/95 box.
I don't know if I really need a gig in the new P4 box but it's getting it anyway.:)
 
Originally posted by batotman
Hard telling, there's a few people in here that make ridiculous statements like that and then defend it until everyone in the forum gets on them and they shut up. :D

I have 1GB, I actually use it. Most people (ie mom, wife, everyday users) don't even need more than 256MB. Gamers, video editing, OCP freaks, you know the rest, the more memory the merrier!
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Now that I think of it.....for the very little bit that I DO play computer games.....I could easier get away with 512MB but o well.....it's just to hard to give things like that up.....whether you need them or not. ;)
 
I know what you mean, faster, more power!!!!

I don't play computer games, I hate keyboard and mouse and the others I've played just aren't that fun. Ah well.

Off Topic, I've watched this Chappelle show (ep 204) like 20 times, I'M RICK JAMES BIATCH....lol. Watching it now...lol.:D Darkness brothers.
 
Originally posted by batotman
I know what you mean, faster, more power!!!!

I don't play computer games, I hate keyboard and mouse and the others I've played just aren't that fun. Ah well.
Click to expand...

Heh, I don't think I could ever sink that far "into the darkness" but I have been drifting away from games lately and finding myself using this overpowered PS2 for things beyond what I originally intended.

As I said before, I'll probly keep upgrading.....whether I need it or not. :D

Hmm, this thing needs more power *grunts like Tim Allen*
 
well I got the 2 other sticks of mushkin to go with the first 2.
Now I have 4x256 of pc3200 level 1
First observations:

PAT is disabled when all 4 slots are occupied. I knew this would happen, it still sucks though.

I can't use Turbo in the GAT settings anymore without 4-5 attempts to get into
windows[xp].Not worth it so everthing is on auto.
I still get the same overclock so far, 230 fsb, 1:1.

memory timings; 2.5,6,3,2
Window and anything to do with it loads fast,works fast.
Games fine, Prime95= no errors.
temps are fine
right now I'm thinking benches/overclocking, sheer speed=use 2 slots like I had, 2x256mbs.
For the long haul 1 gig is good.
Anybody?
 
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