DD Verge wc case questions

[EbolaZaire]

I've been doing research for a couple of months now and I think I've finally figured out what to do for my new setup. I've never done water cooling before, only air cooled oc'ing but I've figured out a lot of things and it seems that the verge is the best starting point for a system.

What I'm getting confused about are some of the finer points in component selection and water cooling in general and I was hoping you guys could clarify/steer me in the right direction. The setup I'm looking at is (http://www.dangerden.com/mall/cases/verge.asp)

the basic verge setup with these options, any suggestions on the components?

RBX A64 (will this work with socket 939?)
Maze4 Chipset Block
6800GT water block (not listed but I think I can specify this as an upgrade)
Zerex 4oz additive
DD 12V pump
case mount relay
steel hose clamps
arctic silver 5
Evercool 80cfm fans in front and behind the radiator
Antec TruePower 480W PSU (should I upgrade to the 550W?)


Here's the questions...
1) Do I really need to have a waterblock on the chipset?

2) The video card and the chipset both come with HSF's on them already, how do you remove these and install water blocks? Do you have to remove thermal grease or anything like that?

3) One of the options is to have noise dampening pads installed, I like this idea but will it restrict the air flow in the system?

4) What do they mean under PSU mods, sleeved only and Install services, wire/sleeve all fans? Is this worth the price?

5) It seems that everyone runs their blocks in serial order, cpu to gpu to chipset. Doesn't this heat up the gpu and chipset with the heat from the cpu? Is there a way to run these in parallel, it doesn't seem feasible but the serial fashion seems rather inefficient and wasteful.

6) Will the Zerex additive do anything other than keep the system clean? I've read a few posts about additives and it appears they don't help cool things down any...

7) Arctic silver 5 or Arctic silver ceramique?

Thanks for any help you guys can provide

 

[HiTech-Hate]

1) No

2) Carefully .. hehe jk. There are various ways to remove them, usually a careful firm twisting motion taking your time, sometimes you need to freeze the card to make the adhesive let go .. I might be wrong here someone else will correct me if I am =P

3) Assuming you dont put them in front of the fans (why would you), so long as you put the padding on the sides/top/etc. of the case, where bare metal is, I don't see it being a problem ... is it worth it though, thats another bag of worms altogether.

4) Sleeving covers the ugly wires of a PSU so instead of 2 black, a red and a yellow wire going to every 4 pin molex, its a nice looking sleeved 'cable'. Is it worth it? I'd say so, makes things look a hell of a lot better, and makes it easier to clean up wires (which can clutter the case and lead to air flow restriction problems).

5) You can setup you're loop in parallel. The reason ppl use serial setups is because of flowrate. Setting up a parallel setup splits the flow in two direction. Most new gen CPU blocks require a high flowrate to operate correctly (they use a technology called 'Jet-Impingement' and the RBX especially performs VERY poorly at low flow-rate). PS Head is more important then flowrate, but it doesnt explain the reason not to go parallel (that was for anyone wanting to flame me =P).

6) Not really, afaik. Its main function is to keep growth down.

7) You'll get 1-2C better temps with AS5 but AS Ceramique is NON-Conductive (so you can be less concerned about frying a chip ... which is hard to do with AS5 anyways). I use ceramique (its all they had) and it works fine.

I would highly recomend AGAINST this 'Verge' system, its EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE ($312 BASE PRICE ).

If you go and pick each of the components on the DD website induvidually itll come out to no more then $200 lol. This morning I helped someone pick his components ...

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=794207

I picked everything from the DD site and you'll see it came out to $177 lol. The only diff was that I priced a heatercore, rads are about $40 more maybe so thats still way less then $312. I'd suggest btw that you do get a heatercore over a rad, DD sells them ready to go, they perform as well, if not better then rads, and they are signifigantly cheaper. The only advantage a rad has is its painted (WOOHOOO).

 

[miro]

2: If the card/chipset has pins holding the hs down, just use a pair of needlenose pliers to remove them. But if the hs is glued down, do what HiTech-Hate said.

3: Though it will cut down on noise, it's expensive, heavy, and it insulates heat. If you have good cooling, and a bit of money, it might be worth it, but I personally don't think so.

6: Won't help with cooling initially, but still definitely worth it. If you're running straight distilled water, after a couple months you'll notice corrosion on any metal in the loop, and probably algae or other lifeforms. Besides being ugly, these will definitely hinder cooling performance.

I'd also go with a TDX block, instead of the RBX, Same performance, but one less tube to deal with. I have an RBX, and it does perform very well, but having two output tubes is kinda inconvenient.

Probably more, but I'm late for class.
miro

 

[Lint]

i'll just add a few toughts on some points

#2 use isopryl alchool to clean off the termal grease they use and take your time when pulling the heatsink off , if there isn't any "holding pins" its probably held with termal epoxty which you might not be able to remove without breaking the part in question

#5 ,HiTech-Hate is prety much spot on flow rate is more important and when you add a spliter in the loop your flow rate turns to crap , honestly it realy doesn't mather anyway , from reading about it for the past week, if you where to put a temp probe before your waterblocks and after there would be almost no difference in temperature , its not like it jumps 10C+ after exiting the blocks , more like 0.1C the reason is that the water goes fast enough it doesnt actualy have time to pick up much heat. the rise of temperature is gradual over a longer period of time than 1 "cycle" .

on #6 thats also right the additives actualy hurt performance , pure distilled water is best but without additives you get a lot of corrosion and stuff tends to grow in warm water , the additives are only to keep those under control

anyway this is just from what i have been reading the last few weeks i don't actualy have any first hand experience with it , i ordered my WC parts last week and have yet to receive any of them other than my 6800 Block.

 

[EbolaZaire]

Thanks for the replies guys, this is definitely helpful for me.

I'm glad to hear that my thoughts about the futility of cooling the chipset were correct, I just couldn't see any benefits from such an action other than making the loop longer (and reducing the overall pressure?). Hi-Tech, could you explain (or point me in the direction of an explanation) of the difference between flow rate and head? What's the deal with the white water block that I keep seeing people recommend?

One of my reasons behind the possible Verge purchase was that I need a new case. I also have never done anything more serious to a case than cutting a hole for a fan so I'm not too confident in my case modding capabilities. But I really don't care about aesthetics and I'd rather have a heatercore than a radiator. I'm intrigued by the piece by piece approach so I went through and priced out individual components and came up with this...

White Water block (55)/ TDX Copper (53) (as an aside, wtf is with the silver TDX for 125?)
DD 12V Pump (75) (Would I need a PCI relay if it's a 12V pump?)
Double Heater Core w/ Shroud (50) (Where would I mount something this big in a case?)
5.25" Reservoir (30) (Why are the green or blue UV ones cheaper than a normal one?)
Tygon Tubing 1/2" ID (How much of this would I need?)
Arctic Thermal Grease
2x Sunon 120mm 90CFM Fans (12 each) (One in front and one behind the radiator I assume is why two are needed? Do I need a shroud for the rear of the radiator too?)

So it's right around 200 bucks for all of that. Is there anything else that would be needed, like clamps or fittings?

It seems like this would be a superior setup, but the chief drawback that I can see is that I've never done any serious case modding before, and I have no idea where I'd fit the double heatercore which is almost a foot tall and half a foot wide.

Could I mount this on the side panel of the case, it seems like that would be a collosal pain in the arse? After I put the price of a case in the equation I'm almost looking at the price of a verge (with similar options on a verge it's $370). Any suggestions about cases that I could mount the double heatercore in? What kind of tools would I need to mount a heatercore anyhow, regardless of single or double?

 

[miro]

The s-tdx is the same as a regular tdx block, except that it's made from a block of solid silver iirc. Better cooling than copper, but understandably very expensive.
You won't need a relay with a 12v pump. That's the best thing about a 12v.
You will need a bunch of hose clamps. One for each connection, plus a couple extra in case you lose one or miscount or something.
As far as mounting the heatercore, just drill some holes in the case, and use zipties or whatever screws will fit it to hold it on. Mine's held on by 4 masonry screws I found in my dad's toolbox.

Flow is how much water the pump can move, in gallons per hour. Head is how high it can move it, in feet. Basically the water pressure. If you have a pump that can move 1000 gph, but only has a foot or 2 of head, it's not going to have the water pressure to get through your rad, blocks, etc.

As far as a case, do what I did. Go to a computer show, get a $19 case, sell the included power supply for $15, and who cares if you screw it up?

miro

 

[HiTech-Hate]

What's the deal with the white water block that I keep seeing people recommend?

Its the best waterblock there is (other then the cascade), that all .... The concept used in the RBX and TDX waterblocks was stolen from cathar. It was his design, and it was the design used in the white water block.

I also have never done anything more serious to a case than cutting a hole for a fan so I'm not too confident in my case modding capabilities.

Well thats good cuz theres not much more that needs to be done then to cut a hole for a fan (why more did you expect to have to do?).

Double Heater Core w/ Shroud (50) (Where would I mount something this big in a case?)

Some people mount them at the front ('standing up' so to speak', it should fit, if not then you'd need to cut a square hole in the front to accomodate this (assuming you have a case with a removeable front panel). you can also mount the heatercore at the top of the case, either inside, or outside of the case.

Tygon Tubing 1/2" ID (How much of this would I need?)

Get 10', more then you'll need but some backup is always helpful just in case. Clearflex is cheaper btw, and still good tubing (tygon has better flex, and is clearer when water flows through it, all depends on your budget).

2x Sunon 120mm 90CFM Fans (12 each) (One in front and one behind the radiator I assume is why two are needed? Do I need a shroud for the rear of the radiator too?)

If you get a dual heatercore you can actually mount 4 fans on it!!! If you only use two then yes one on each side. Yes you need a shroud for the back, the shroud alleviates 'dead air' in the center of the fan (where the motor etc. is), with the shroud air is circulated correctly.

So it's right around 200 bucks for all of that. Is there anything else that would be needed, like clamps or fittings?

About 15 hose clamps (w/out GPU Block), get 20, home depot $0.25 each
If you get White Water Block you'll need a Y-Fitting (it has 3 barbs, one inlet, two outlets, you need the Y-Fitting to reunite the outward flowing water). TDX you wont need Y-Fitting

What kind of tools would I need to mount a heatercore anyhow, regardless of single or double?

Your hands. Your brain.
A screwdriver, maybe a drill, some screws or twistties, very easy.

 

[HiTech-Hate]

and what miro said