DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

Boil said:
If you are not using a discrete GPU, then you could get by with a HDPlex PSU as well. Now you are in Mac mini-sized enclosure territory…!
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Edit: If you don't want a discrete GPU, you could go with a Skylake mini-STX or NUC system and go even smaller, and mount it on the back of your display for good measure.
 
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Boil said:
Seeing as how a backside mounted M.2 SSD is designed to go in the standard space that is behind all properly mounted motherboards, I would have to say yes…

Now, ample airflow back there is another issue that will have to be discerned as units are actually shipping and being built up…

Keep in mind, there is no cutout/opening under the motherboard like a lot of chassis have. There is also a (usually) quite hot GPU right on the other side of the motherboard mounting area, and the GPU riser cable cuts off some of the upward flow of air in the middle of the motherboard/gpu 'sandwich' as well…
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This is really important to me (and I believe for many others) as many high end boards have the M.2 socket on the backside. From the comments above I'm getting the feeling that I might need to look somewhere else. I really would like to know if such motherboards were tested or if there is a high end motherboard with a PCIe M.2 on the frontside.
 
inkflow,

I'm not worrying about frying a M.2 mounted on the backside of the motherboard.

1) you can run the PCIe riser cable on either side of the non-conductive film separating the motherboard area from the GPU area. I'm planning to put the riser cable (which is shielded) on the GPU side.
2) this film should provide some modest airflow separation between the mobo and GPU areas. Radiant heat shouldn't be a big deal, as plastic is a poor conductor of heat. Also natural convection should carry away some of this heat through the top vent.
3) if you don't mount a 2.5in SSD/HDD (I'm planning to go just the M.2), you can use a thin/small fan mounted on the bottom to ventilate this area if you really want to supplement natural convection.
4) This case is tiny. The entire volume is 7.25L = 1/4 cubic foot. A single 40cfm fan should turn over the entire volume of air in the case (assuming it's all air) 160 times in 1 minute. Now fill the case with mobo, GPU, PSU. How much of that volume is air?
 
40cfm??? I am right scared. What kind of fan are you talking of? Tops you can use a 70mm fan but perhaps only a 60mm in place of a 2.5" and those are like 15CFM unless you are planning on using some server grade howler.
 
I honestly think your CPU and GPU fans will provide more than enough intake. They'll act like case fans in this case. If you have a GPU with 3 fans that alone will be enough to turn around the air in the case very quickly.
 
I will be getting the PS600 for sure.

Also, I've checked this and it seems like it'll work, but I also wanted to check with you guys -- will the A4-SFX fit an Intel 750 series SSD either of the 2 slots below the PSU? I know it won't fit in the front...
 
chx said:
40cfm??? I am right scared. What kind of fan are you talking of? Tops you can use a 70mm fan but perhaps only a 60mm in place of a 2.5" and those are like 15CFM unless you are planning on using some server grade howler.
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The Cryorig C7 comes with a ~40cfm fan. I would imagine the fans on non-blower GPUs are similarly rated. Yes, I know the CPU and GPU fans aren't positioned for cooling the backside of the mobo, but cut me a little slack. The 40cfm number was meant to be indicative that such a fan would be way overkill for the gross volume of the entire case.
 
QuantumBraced said:
I will be getting the PS600 for sure.

Also, I've checked this and it seems like it'll work, but I also wanted to check with you guys -- will the A4-SFX fit an Intel 750 series SSD either of the 2 slots below the PSU? I know it won't fit in the front...
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Not sure about the bracket, but you can always go without the bracket and just affix the SSD to the case directly.
 
@DonDan
So another post on [H]ard was showing off a new riser cable from HDPlex: HDPlex PCIe Riser Cable
I realize it is quite late in the process, but it looks like this cable might be an excellent alternative to the 3M cable currently planned.
I have asked HDPlex if they can confirm the cable is EM shielded and whether it can come in shorter/longer lengths than the 15cm listed lengh.
Still, this is an interesting option if the case will be available without the 3M riser after the crowdfunding period.
 
I talked already with Larry from Hdplex some weeks ago about this cable. He could made it with an MOQ of 500 for me. But because 3M made a good offer and has a MOQ of 300 I take them. I never plan to sell the case without a included riser.
 
ElAntonius said:
Not sure about the bracket, but you can always go without the bracket and just affix the SSD to the case directly.
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If the 750er has normal 2,5" mountpoints on the bottom side this is possible.
 
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jtd871 said:
inkflow,

I'm not worrying about frying a M.2 mounted on the backside of the motherboard.
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I already tested a msata SSD with no problems on the backside of my old Asrock Z77E ITX. My temp was 52°C while System under full load (Furmark + Pime). But mabye a Samsung 950 pro could be a problem. So copy many files while the system is under full load could made the SSD (950 pro) throttle.
 
dondan said:
I talked already with Larry from Hdplex some weeks ago about this cable. He could made it with an MOQ of 500 for me. But because 3M made a good offer and has a MOQ of 300 I take them. I never plan to sell the case without a included riser.
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Fair enough! Sorry to bring it back up, guess I missed your post on it. Glad to hear 3M was able to make their cable competitively priced!
 
dondan said:
I already tested a msata SSD with no problems on the backside of my old Asrock Z77E ITX. My temp was 52°C while System under full load (Furmark + Pime). But mabye a Samsung 950 pro could be a problem. So copy many files while the system is under full load could made the SSD (950 pro) throttle.
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I think the 950 Pro will throttle if you copy file for 1-2 minutes, regardless. Solution is usually to put a heatsink on it. Some put a thermal pad on it, that is also placed against the motherboard plate, to lead heat away. If the riser is not in the way, it could be an option also here. However, I guess the motherboard plate could be a bit warmer than usual in this case.
 
CarbonVirus said:
Fair enough! Sorry to bring it back up, guess I missed your post on it. Glad to hear 3M was able to make their cable competitively priced!
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Competitively priced, but how about have it sleeved in black? However, I guess I will face the same argument as for the protective film - "you are not gonna look inside the case anyway". ;)
 
Mackan said:
Competitively priced, but how about have it sleeved in black? However, I guess I will face the same argument as for the protective film - "you are not gonna look inside the case anyway". ;)
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I mean, if you really want to I'm sure there'd be a way to sew and slide on a cloth sleeve. :)
 
@dondan:

Is the PSU in contact with the side panel or is there a gap in between? Wondering if direct contact causes vibration-based noise issues.
 
QuantumBraced said:
I will be getting the PS600 for sure.

Also, I've checked this and it seems like it'll work, but I also wanted to check with you guys -- will the A4-SFX fit an Intel 750 series SSD either of the 2 slots below the PSU? I know it won't fit in the front...
Click to expand...

dondan said:
If the 750er has normal 2,5" mountpoints on the bottom side this is possible.
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You mean the SF600, yeah…?

As for the SSD/HDD question, I quote (cut & paste) from the Dan-Case website…

Hard Disk Drives
Note: With SFX-L you are limited to one drive in the drive bay

2x 2,5" HDD/SSD in drive bay
Bottom drive: max. height 15mm
Top drive: max. height 15mm

1 x 2.5" HDD/SSD in front-area
Max. height 9mm

The Intel 750-series 2.5" SSD is 15mm thick, and it does have the standard areas for securing with screws on the bottom/backside of the drive. Keep in mind, that is also the side with the 'ribbing' for the heat sink. The 750 also has standard connection points on the sides, I think those would be best used with the drive cage. This gets the device up off of the chassis floor, but allow airflow & room to connect the actual data/power…
 
Hi Dondan,
A question about the CPU cooler height restriction–– is 48mm really the max, or is there a couple millimeter wiggle room? I'm thinking about modifying the Noctua L9x65 to fit by trimming the aluminum fins. I think the minimum I could achieve with a 14mm fan would be 49-50mm in height.

Thanks!
 
StaticSounds said:
I doubt you will see much performance gain - by using a fan that is in contact with the sidepanel you will effectively reduce the area the fan can pull air from.

I read a brochure from a ventilation firm stating that a decrease in pipe size (applies to the scenario above imho) could have an exponential effect on the performance. Like if you decrease pipesize by a third you could have up to 66% performance loss.
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I may be able to trim it down to 48mm, so this still might be possible.

Yes, there might not be performance gains against other LGA 115x coolers like the NH-L9i or LP53, but I am planning on using this with X99 narrow ILM where the only cooler that fits is the T318. I've been unpleased with the performance of this cooler and am thinking that the four heat pipes in the L9x65 may provide better performance. The advantage is that Noctua has a Narrow ILM adapter.
 
I knew this is an old issue but remind me again why the second USB port and the headphone/mic jacks were removed from the front of the case? Was it just for aesthetics?
 
It was both asthetics and the avoidance of tooling fees for a custom frontpanel IO solution that would have been necessary for aesthetical purposes.
 
The second USB was only for aesthetics (one hole was enough)... Difficult to understand to me, but was the final decision...
 
The USB cable is typically always too long and stiff to route in ITX cases... Would have been happy to see it totally gone.
 
The problem with those is signal integrity could be severely compromised. USB 3.0 has some rather heavy duty requirements for shielded twisted pair or shielded twinaxial cable, and that's very much not that.
 
Hey dondan!

Been following the development of the case for quite some time (as a filthy lurker) and I'm very hyped. This is the exact case I was looking for when I first started building rigs. Kudos. I just have one question that I haven't been able to find the answer to yet: will the case accommodate a 390X?

Keep up the great work, mate!
 
Not sure whether every 390X will fit, but the "MSI Radeon R9 390X Gaming 8G" should, since it's the same size as their GTX 970, which fits in the A4 for sure, as tested by dondan :)
 
Hmm... The missus and I have the XFX variants, and it is quite similar. Ought to be just fine then. :) Thanks!
 
Aircoookie said:
Not sure whether every 390X will fit, but the "MSI Radeon R9 390X Gaming 8G" should, since it's the same size as their GTX 970, which fits in the A4 for sure, as tested by dondan :)
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Not even close, check the side profile

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The MSI GTX 970 product dimensions are 26.9 x 14.1 x 3.5 cm. The XFX R9 390X product dimensions are 29.5 x 14.3 x 4.2 cm. It's rather close, but that's what worries me: is it still small enough to fit?
 
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