DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

Hey dondan I might spread the word about this on reddit and OCN. Do you mind? It's just that I think a lot of people would be interested in this on other sites.
 
Still hoping the GPU could be flipped so the intake fan is facing the other direction and then add a cutout there. The top and bottom fans for the PSU could be replaced with a single fan on the same side as the motherboard to cool the DC-DC converter. This results in less fans (noise is something I don't know. The GPU fan would be a bit quieter in the normal setup because the noise might be slightly more dampened and the two noctuas combined might be quieter. Ideally it's just if you can get less fans, the better it is).

I didn't read through everything if you said something about the GPU orientation so my bad if you've already talked about it. The clearance between the intake fan on short and long cards and the distance from the motherboard or PSU tray is a bit too little to allow adequate airflow IMO.
 
@ rawrr: thank you so much for the thread very cool to read. My english is not the best so it looks much more professional as i could write it. Maybe you can add information of possibility hardware. Coolers with an hight of 42mm and i7 + GTX 780 ready. (GPU with 240-250W).

In the last days i think about other case possibilitys for my brand. I found a solution to build a system like the A4 but with a thin itx board and a special dc-powerboard to use GPUs like GTX 770 on it. This case has the dimensions of 260*180*75 = 3,5L. It is very complex with the powersolution because a thin itx board need 19V not like a classic motherboard. Everybody would think "hey a retail thin itx board has only a pcie 4x port, much to slow for high end cards" but this is worng. A pcie 3.0 4x port has the same transferrate as a pcie 1.0 16x port and is fast enough. A german review said that you lost only 1-2 FPS from 90FPS.

@ Hybridcore: If you flip the gpu you have the problem, that you have to use very long pcie flex cables ( 220mm). This result in the problem, that you can only use only riser cables of 3M (250mm-500mm) to get no pcie signal error. These cables are very expensive 80$. The other problem is, that you have a higher heat on the backside of the gpu as on the coolerside. This heat effect the motherboard.
Your fan solution could be work, but the hdplex an other dc ports have some connectors in this area. So if you put a fan over it you couldn't plug in this cable. (Hdplex 19V power-input, picobox x3-atx-300 = nearly all connectors) an there isn't enough room to put the fan higher. And i think it would be a break for the look of the inside of the case if there is a fan over the powerboard. With my Solution you have a clear area and components (dc-powerboard and gpu) get enough fresh air. The noise-level is very low because the fan could spin very slow. The airflow is very good i will offer some temperature tables. The heat of the gpu is only 4°C higher than using it without a case.
 
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Thin Mini-ITX board usually come with a standard height I/O shield in addition to the shorter one. I don't think it makes sense to go make the case a bit narrower by going with thin mini ITX since the smallest cooler you can fit will be 1U sized units (there are a few smaller 21mm units). That doesn't shave much off of the current width (I tried it with my project and it failed quite miserably. Keep in mind it's about 15mm from the top planar surface of the motherboard to the top of the IHS so actual cooler height is a bit smaller).

I wish there were more Thin Mini-ITX boards with full length x16 slots. I know this case is intended for more powerful, longer GPUs but for those that rely off of the 75W provided by a PCIe x16 slot (x4 and x1 offer less than 75W) need a powered extender cable. For those who want to avoid the need for a PSU (since Thin Mini ITX has one built in) this sucks a lot.

I wouldn't get my hopes up for a thin mini ITX board with a x16 slot anytime soon. The last time one of those showed up was when Gigabyte made a H61 Thin mITX board so unless demand rises that much, I doubt they'll do it again.
 
This is the only cooler the A5 will support :
Intel_HTS1155LP.jpg

The A3 only supports CPUs with an TPD of 65W.
Iam in contact with picobox to develop a new dc board.
 
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Wow, 3.5L? That's fantastic!

Only thing is that it may have to be a bit longer than 260mm, because the GTX 770 is longer than that (i think).

Which thin-itx boards do you think will work?

I'm glad you like my thread. I wrote about the cooler height, but I will add that it is 'i7 + GTX 780 ready'.
 
dondan said:
In the last days i think about other case possibilitys for my brand. I found a solution to build a system like the A4 but with a thin itx board and a special dc-powerboard to use GPUs like GTX 770 on it. This case has the dimensions of 260*180*75 = 3,5L. It is very complex with the powersolution because a thin itx board need 19V not like a classic motherboard. Everybody would think "hey a retail thin itx board has only a pcie 4x port, much to slow for high end cards" but this is worng. A pcie 3.0 4x port has the same transferrate as a pcie 1.0 16x port and is fast enough. A german review said that you lost only 1-2 FPS from 90FPS.
Click to expand...

I'm looking forward to your case design with a Thin Mini-ITX board + a VGA card combo, as I'm a big fan of Thin Mini-ITX boards and experimenting with a compactifying a case that accomodates both a Thin Mini-ITX and a VGA card by taking advantage of the Thin Mini-ITX's component layout. Unfortunately I suck at cutting/drilling metal stuff and all I have done is making a custom alminum mounting plate with which to turn a low profile VGA cooler into a CPU cooler, and so far no case modding to fit a VGA card in where it's not expected to fit in.
 
HybridCore said:
I wouldn't get my hopes up for a thin mini ITX board with a x16 slot anytime soon. The last time one of those showed up was when Gigabyte made a H61 Thin mITX board so unless demand rises that much, I doubt they'll do it again.
Click to expand...

Hi HybridCore, you posted a similar comment in your "bento" case project @OCN, but I've been wondering which specific Thin Mini-ITX board you are talking about that Gigabyte made that has a PCIe x16 slot. I can only recall PCIe2.0 x4, PCIe3.0 x4, PCI, or none by any well known manufacturer (I admit I don't check the full catalog of Jetway, Wibtek, Mitac, Commel, Gigabyte B2B, etc)
 
Google is your frind:

Gigabyte MSH61QI:

gigabyte_msh61qi_01.jpg


But you couldn't buy this board because it is only available in one Gigabyte AIO system (
GB-AEGT).
 
@dondan thanks for the info! Gigabyte B2B lists MSH61DI but not MSH61QI so I guess you're right they don't supply this board separately. (Not that any of the server/embedded boards listed at Gigabyte B2B is readily available to ordinary customers like us.)

This board is certainly interesting, both MSH61QI and MSH61DI have their RAM slots in a different section of the boards from most other Thin Mini-ITX boards, and the PCIe x16 slot location on MSH61QI is at the very top rather than the bottom. I guess it makes sense tho, as the HTS1155LP mounted in the orientation intel suggests will interfere with full PCIe x16 lane card even using a flex riser. I guess this slot location would actually be ideal for HybridCore's preference for the orientation of a VGA card on the flipside of the motherboard when a flex riser shouldn't be too long.

One thing I have been wondering since I suck at understanding electronics... techpowerup and others have done bandwidth comparison tests for different versions and different number of lanes of PCI Express slots and I understand that using a high end VGA card on a shorter lane slot such as v2.0 x8 or v3.0 x4 isn't much deprived of data bandwidth for gaming, but in terms of power needed by the card, does the shortage of internal power supply through PCIe lanes relative to x16 lanes get compensated by the external power input via the 6pin/8pin connectors from ATX PSU or AC-DC board, or that's not how the circuit works?
 
@veryrarium

IIRC if you get and adapter for x4 to x16 there is also another connector like a molex which you plug your psu into, supplying the needed power.
 
Just a quick question; will we be able to fit any motherboard that uses a daughterboard (Asus Z87I-Deluxe, Maximus Impact, etc)?
 
dondan said:
In the last days i think about other case possibilitys for my brand. I found a solution to build a system like the A4 but with a thin itx board and a special dc-powerboard to use GPUs like GTX 770 on it. This case has the dimensions of 260*180*75 = 3,5L. It is very complex with the powersolution because a thin itx board need 19V not like a classic motherboard. Everybody would think "hey a retail thin itx board has only a pcie 4x port, much to slow for high end cards" but this is worng. A pcie 3.0 4x port has the same transferrate as a pcie 1.0 16x port and is fast enough. A german review said that you lost only 1-2 FPS from 90FPS.
Click to expand...

Now i found a very easy solution to use the hdplex together with an thin itx Board. The hdplex board give the power for the gpu and the thinitx board for the rest. The difficulty in this is to power both boards on at the same time.
Voila we can power a GTX 780ti with a 65W Quadcore in an 3,5L case. And we need not an flexible riser. I will buy myself a thin itx board and give my idea a try. By the way this solution will also work in the A4 but only with flex riser. Or i make a second back shield to support both solution: GPU under the board or over the Board.
If this construction work we only can go smaller with custom motherboards with soldered gpu's. My dream big MXM-Card support for itx.
 
Let's not get sidetracked from the first project here! :D lol

But what you are saying is very interesting. The only thing is that this may require two power bricks (one for the thin itx board and one for the hdplex)

So what I suggest is that you make a custom DC jack Y-splitter (they look like this)

ACC-2Y.jpeg


that caps the wattage on one line to ~70W for the thin itx board and the other line probably will not need wattage capping since it is going to the hdplex.

This way you only need one brick!
 
No with this solution it will not work because the hdplex will only start if the PS-ON Pin on the 24pin connector is groundet. But a thin itx board has not a 24pin connector and if you connecting the pson pin normaly to gnd the hdplex will be on the whole time.

And you need only the jack on the thin itx board. this jack has the same size like the dell one and you get the 19V to the hdplex from the internal 2pin port of the thin itx board. Both dc boards (internal and hdplex) can pull as much as they need (they run in parallel mode if this is the right english word for it) but not more than 420W together.
 
Ok. Could you maybe draw a diagram or something of the wiring for the power? That would be really helpful! :D
 
By the way, which motherboard are you going to test with? I suggest the Asus Q87t! :D
 
Would be cool, but i will try it with the Gigabyte H77TN or B75TN because i have only a 2500k. Maybe i must invest in min. 3760k to have pcie 3.0, because the 2500k only support pcie 2.0
 
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dondan said:
Would be cool, but i will try it with the Gigabyte H77TN or B75TN because i have a 2500k. Maybe i must invest in min. 3760k to have pcie 3.0, because the 2500k only support pcie 2.0
Click to expand...

0 difference between pcie 3.0 and 2.0 no matter what video card youre using
 
Would you say it is a safe bet to buy the HDPLEX 250W Hi-Fi and Dell adapter now? No planned changes in those parts?
 
Very safe, the hdplex and the picobox x3-atx-300 are the final psu's for the normal A4.
 
What's the best source of 19V adapters you've found? The Dell adapters listed on Ebay (UK) are pretty pricey. Any alternatives? I'm looking in the 200-230W output range (not clear if the adapter wattage is max in or max out), will get higher if it's affordable.

I can't find any adapters with efficiency graphs/figures either.
 
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Thanks dondan, that's ace!

And just to check, do any of these adapters have a buzz/make any sound? I've never had a laptop power adapter that does, but after the last couple of dodgy desktop PSUs... I'm always wary :)
 
Dondan you should make a website for this case. Like the M1 and the Lone Industries cases :D

Maybe get someone really skilled to do it; a professional looking website can go a long way...
 
Today i got the new laser parts. You can see the new front side with a better cutout to support itx boards with higger and lower arrange socket position. Next week i will bent the parts.
20140821_174340dlj0p.jpg
 
A first preview of my website. (The Picture isn't final.)

>> What do you think about the design and brand-name CFORGE? <<

sidexsjvk.jpg


Furthermore i work the last days a lot on the A4 CAD-Files to make this case a bit easier to build (less parts) and improvements for the dc-powerboard mounting.
 
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