DACs...

P

Pinipig523

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
1,742
Hey,

Do you guys got any good DACs that you'd recommend to me for my system? I just auditioned the PS Audio Digital Link III DAC and it was a fantastic upgrade from stock Squeezebox analog outs!

So I'm pretty sure I want to go with the PS Audio, but I want to know if anyone has experience with some killer DACs.

Stipulations:
1. I need a balanced DAC, meaning not just XLRs for the heck of it.
2. I need something that outputs in Class A.
3. No op amps, if possible, I want discrete topology.

Thanks!
;)
 
I heard about those Pacific Valves and Lavrys....

Thanks Spiff!

Anyone else?

I've been looking at some Levinsons and that level of DACs but for that price, I think I'd rather get a CDP with digital inputs.

Then again, I got to work on my TT vinyl setup... this always gets out of hand. :mad: :(
 
The Stello DA220 I use as my main audio source fits all your requirements, and it built like a tank to boot. You can usually find them for $850-900 on Audiogon. There is a MkII model out now, which costs about $400 more new, but the only major improvement is the addition of a USB input.
 
ID,
I thanks for the Stello DAC tip, I've been eye-ing that too.... seems to be getting good reviews, but I've read somewhere that they take off the shelf parts and a low end DAC chip and put it together... cant confirm it w/o hearing it in my system though.
 
Well if you want a heavy hitter like that, look at a Benchmark DAC-1. Not sure if it is discrete or not, but it sounds and specs damn good. Also, why the dislike for opamps? You'd have a real, real hard time designing a voltage gain stage as precise as a good fast opamp. They are good at small signal stuff, which a DAC is.

Regardless, check out the Benchmark. Also, unlike many allegedly high quality DACs it buffers the input and reclocks it to eliminate jitter.

http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/dac1/
 
Bought the PS Audio Digital DACIII. Looks to be the roughest and toughest of them all.

However, in the next few months, I will buy the rest of the big name DACs, namely the Benchmark DAC1, the Stello, and the CI Audio offerrings... then I'll do a comparo hopefully.

Thanks guys! :)
 
ive got the benchmark, and it sounds fantastic. you most definitely can bypass the volume pot, and it has a pretty decent headphone amp built in. benchmark also has great customer service, i had a problem with the dac when i first received it and i ended up speaking to the guy that designed it (it ended up being a retailer error) try that with the levinson!
 
Hightreason said:
ive got the benchmark, and it sounds fantastic. you most definitely can bypass the volume pot, and it has a pretty decent headphone amp built in. benchmark also has great customer service, i had a problem with the dac when i first received it and i ended up speaking to the guy that designed it (it ended up being a retailer error) try that with the levinson!
Click to expand...

Cool! However, I think I'd be more excited to talk to Mark Levinson himself... but I dont think he mans the phones.

Other big companies though, like BAT electronics and Rogue Audio, you get to talk to the owners through the phone. I tried with Cary Audio, and they never returned my call...

Kinda pissed me off considering the preamp I have is like almost $4,000 and they cant even return my call for a stupid question regarding their stupid $6,000 CD player!!

As you can see, I'm still steamed..... :mad: :mad: :mad: .
 
actually if you're ever in the NY area you can check out Red Rose Audio (levinson's latest venture) where you can demo some systems with Mark Levinson himself (at least you could the last time i went there)
 
Geez.... some of that gear is uber expensive. I'll keep that in mind... thanks Treason! ;)
 
I don't think there should be any problem with the volume pot. Not only do they use a good one, but when you set it to full open there's no attenuation and thus it functions just like a wire.

At any rate, just a stellar DAC. As I said, one of the really worthwhile features is it's buffering/reclocking system. A lot of pricey DACs seem to not have that I guess off of the theory that less is better for audio. That's true to an extent for analogue, but not for digital. For digital, you want it clocked to the most stable source you can get, as near to the output as you can get.

The DAC-1 is basically totally jitter immune, which is a beautiful thing.
 
Sycraft said:
I don't think there should be any problem with the volume pot. Not only do they use a good one, but when you set it to full open there's no attenuation and thus it functions just like a wire.

At any rate, just a stellar DAC. As I said, one of the really worthwhile features is it's buffering/reclocking system. A lot of pricey DACs seem to not have that I guess off of the theory that less is better for audio. That's true to an extent for analogue, but not for digital. For digital, you want it clocked to the most stable source you can get, as near to the output as you can get.

The DAC-1 is basically totally jitter immune, which is a beautiful thing.
Click to expand...

I'll pick it up one of these days... I wonder what kind of analog output stages that thing has.. and whether it has a sufficient powersupply. Guy looks so small, it's hard to imagine what kind of toroid transformer is in there.

I hope you're right about the pot acting like a wire when on full.... I'd hate to be attenuating a signal that I relegate to my already pricey preamp.

Thanks though.... nice talking with someone who's got experience with the DAC1. ;)
 
Here's a pic of the inside of the DAC1 I owned from 04 through 06:



I've got more if you want to see close-ups of any specific areas. The important chips are: ASRC - AD1896 , DAC - AD1853 , analog opamps (4 per channel) NE5532 , headphone buffers - BUF634.

I think the DAC1 is a very good package, considering the build quality and price you can get it for used. It does make some sacrifices (i.e. cheap potentiometer, IC's instead of discrete class-A output, 50-ohm input BNC instead of proper 75-ohm, etc.) but the sound quality traded off is nothing too major. I do think there are better sounding pieces out there, but their prices, even used tend to be a bit higher, and the sound quality gains are at least somewhat subtle. Here is a review I wrote including the DAC1 last year: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=161032
 
I wouldn't worry about the size too much. Bigger isn't always better. DACs deal with low voltages and very low currents. Thus there's just not a need to make them massive. Consider that the actual chip that does the work, the DAC itself, is in a package smaller than your thumbnail.

As for the pot, you'll find that most pots, even real cheap ones, do nothing at full gain. The question of quality comes at attenuation settings, specifically how well the channels track each other. If you aren't planning on attenuating the signal it's not really a big deal.

Are there better DACs out there? Perhaps, but then when it comes to high end gear you'll never find any double blind reviews which is really the only way to make sure that there isn't any bias or misperception going on. What I do know is that it sounds superb (on quite good hardware) and the measurements back it up.

Now I should note that I don't own one. I don't make the kind of money where I can get a system that a $1000 DAC is worth it (when your speakers are only $1500, there's no reason to spend nearly that much on a DAC, they are always the biggest problem). My experience comes from playing with it in a recording studio. However their gear is superb and the source material better than normal (all 24-bit, non-limited, etc). Also gives you the benefit of being able to hear the result, and then going in to the next room and hearing it live :D.
 
Thanks ID and Sy.

I understand that it doesnt use Class A discrete output stages and that though it's balanced, the digital input goes through a single DAC chip. My understanding is that the powersupply is probably one of the more important contributions to the sonic character... the DAC chip itself is a cheap part of the amalgam of parts, sometimes even the best BB or AKM chips are less than the price for a burger.

I do believe that although the cheap pot may act like a wire when on full, there's still that decrease in overall transparency... I will read up on this and other's takes on this aspect of the DAC1.

I was originally considering using DAC units of hi-end cd players, like those on the Cary 306SACD which consists of balanced power supplies (including toroids) and 8 BB DACs in 4 pair combinations through each of the 2 channels. I was just about ready to plop the cash, but I got word about this PS Audio DAC with a great Class A output stage and a huge powersupply that is supposed to sound just killer. I tried one and the difference was so night and day that I just bought one last week and awaiting delivery.

I have read several reviews of certain DACs and the change in sound is usually regarded as something rather small. However, after listening to the PS Audio DACIII, the difference is so clear and easy to pick out, that I am confident I would be able to tell the difference between the Stock Squeezebox3 analog outputs vs the PSA DACIII's analog outputs even with a gun to my head.

I guess the only way for me to really know how the DAC1 by Benchmark performs is to have it in my system....
 
Oh, btw, if you do get to pick up a VDA-2 + VAC-1 unit from CIAudio, please give us (or at least me) a summary of your findings. :D

I've been thinking of upgrading to that DAC but for a Canadian, it's either inconvenient (have a friend carry it over) or expensive (duties). It doesn't have too many reviews and could use more opinions.
 
Cyrilix said:
Oh, btw, if you do get to pick up a VDA-2 + VAC-1 unit from CIAudio, please give us (or at least me) a summary of your findings. :D

I've been thinking of upgrading to that DAC but for a Canadian, it's either inconvenient (have a friend carry it over) or expensive (duties). It doesn't have too many reviews and could use more opinions.
Click to expand...

We have a few members on the Martin Logan forum that have the CI Audio VDA2 with power supply combo. It's supposed to be a pretty good unit, but from what I hear, it's not exactly a balanced unit.

I will try to see if I can get a hold of that unit.... I'll make sure to send my impressions to you once I do.

;)
 
Hightreason said:
ive got the benchmark, and it sounds fantastic. you most definitely can bypass the volume pot, and it has a pretty decent headphone amp built in. benchmark also has great customer service, i had a problem with the dac when i first received it and i ended up speaking to the guy that designed it (it ended up being a retailer error) try that with the levinson!
Click to expand...

The DAC1 has a mode of operation which completely bypasses the volume attenuation pot on the front of the unit. This mode (called 'Calibrated') can be evoked via a switch on the rear panel of the unit.

Thanks,
Elias
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top