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Custom computer speaker setup recommendation

E

eddie500

Gawd
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
1,009
I have always thought that computer speakers were specially designed for computers and you should only use computer speakers. Well I have owned the Z-680 5.1 for a very long time.

I was thinking about doing a custom computer speaker setup. I was thinking about a 5.1 setup. I would like to purchase 6 speakers + external Amp + External Subwoofer. Maybe my budget is say $1000 to $2000 max.

Here are some questions if anyone can answer to help me understand this better.

1) Does anybody know how a custom setup will sound compared to my Z-680's?

2) Is there any drawbacks to purchasing non-computer speakers? shielding?

3) IS there currently a best bang for your buck custom computer speakers, amp, or external subwoofer? LIke do many people usually choose certain speakers for computer setups?

4) Why is it that most people will spend big on TV / home theater speakers but will only buy cheap 5.1 computer speaker sets?

5) Can someone recommend a decent setup for custom computer speakers?

6) SHould I consider going larger or smaller for computer speakers?

7) Are their any issues with having larger speakers close to you, as you would probably have them next to where you sit.

8) Am I crazy and alone in that I prefer having external speakers than using head phones for gaming?

9) anything else relevant please give some input.
 
I think that's a good way to go, if you are willing to spend the money, and that budget means you are willing to spend the money. I say do it, it is what I do.

1) Lightyears ahead. Computer speakers are fine, but they are built for cost. A proper home theater setup will sound tons better.

2) Only cost, and size. HT speakers tend to be larger, and of course more expensive. Shielding matters only with relation to CRT monitors, LCDs don't care.

3) There's a lot of options, depends on what you want. There isn't a One True System(tm) to buy for best value.

4) Because people don't care about sound. I dunno why that is but it is. Most people I know have $1000 TVs and use the internal speakers. I'm strange, I have a $1000 TV with $2500 of sound equipment connected to it (and my TV has the cheaper of my two surround systems).

5) Sure after the numeric questions I'll recommend some stuff.

6) I like large speakers because they tend to sound better. When you cram everything in a tiny box, it usually means a single driver and not so good sound. I like classic bookshelf and tower speakers.

7) You don't want to have them right next to you as the tweeter and woofer won't have time to blend, but they can be pretty close. A couple feet is fine for bookshelf type speakers. Also you can always just put them further back. You can see an old picture of my setup here. Notice the speakers are a few feet behind my desk. For tower speakers that is necessary, not so much for bookshelfs though they work well that way.

8) No. Headphones don't give nearly as good a soundstage. Also their bass is always lacking, even if at the correct levels since you can't feel it like you can with a sub. Plenty of us like real speaker setups. I suspect many more would, they just don't want to pay for them.

9) Just note you'll need to do Dolby Digital Live, DTS Interactive, or HDMI form your computer to your receiver to get surround sound. Some soundcards support DDL/DSTI, some don't for most Creative soundcards, you can buy it as an addon for about $5. HDMI takes a new soundcard and can be a bit tricky in some ways, but works. I can help you with that, it is how I do things.


So as for recommendations. I recommend a Denon receiver at the heart of the system. This is because I like their design, and because I think their Audyessy room calibration software is so worth it. An AVR-1611 or AVR-591 would be the entry level that would get you that. They have better models, but the only issue is that you don't want to spend too much on the receiver, since the speakers are bigger problems sound wise.

Do note with Denon you can get a better price than the list price. They force people to list it at that but you can call. I bought mine through 6th Ave Electronics and got a pretty good amount off when I called and asked.

As for speakers, well as my picture indicates, I'm an SVS fanboy. I'd say get yourself some SBS-02 speakers and perhaps their SB-12 NSD subwoofer. Do note that SVS's subs start at a higher pricepoint than many, so you might have to look elsewhere, but they are extremely good for the money, I love mine.

So say a 5.0 SBS system for $700 (4 SBS bookshelf speakers, 1 SCS center speaker), SB-12 NSD sub for $550, and AVR-1611 for $400 (or less hopefully). $1600 and you've got some really nice sound.

Another good thing about a HT component system is you can upgrade components as you see fit. Maybe some time down the road you say "Man these front speakers need to be better for music. I want to cross them over at a lower frequency, and I want better imaging." So you drop $1200 and get some MTS-01s (what are in my picture). Great, those go in and nothing else changes. Maybe you say "I really want the higher end Audyessy MultEQ XT or XT32, and I'd like more amp power." So you buy a Denon AVR-4311CI, again just swap out your old one.

You can replace items as you see fit, the rest will keep working.

With your stated budget range, it shouldn't be a problem. You can also go cheaper, if needed. You can find other subs that cost less than the SVS (JBL and HSU have good ones for less), you could find lesser speakers, and heck you don't need a Denon receiver, they are just my very favorite.
 
dioxholster said:
i would love to do a custom setup but i dont know how. Computer speakers nowadays are weak.
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It isn't hard, just expensive. You need to be willing to spend about $1200 or so in my opinion and more like $2000 is better. If you are, then it is just a matter of buying some components. They are easy to hook together.

There isn't anything special or custom really, it is just home theater gear.
 
Thanks for the info Sycraft: I may consider these. Actually with the sheilding I am a bit OCD about that. Bascially I worry for my hard drive. Probably it would never do anything but it is the thought of it. I just googled this link.

http://www.birotechnology.com/articles/shielded.html

If you want to incorporate high quality audio into a computer system, or if you want to put high quality audio anywhere close to a computer, then you most emphatically need a "negligible stray field" system. Even if you locate the speakers well away from your computer, it will only be a matter of time before someone finds that floppy with your most highly prized data on it, and seeing a convenient place to put it, lands it right atop the speaker. At 3 a.m., after a long night of computing, that person may even be you.

However, Those SBS 02 speakers are magnetically shielded anyway, just look at the specs so that will not be a problem. I would have to check on the sheilding for the sub, as I couldn't find anything about shielding for the sub on their webpage.

These maybe do look like what I am looking for. They can also be paired with that receiver, as the watt handling is up to 80 watts.

SInce I am really new to speakers, are the quality of these well worth the money? Are these known to be some of the best quality speakers in this price range? Do audiophiles usually recommend these?

Are these speakers good for computer gaming. The reason I ask is, I do not know if computer gaming speakers need any special quality to them compared to movie speakers. LIke maybe accuracy or bass tightness or something.

How much better would tower speakers sound over the book-shelf speakers? Like wold those MTS speakers really blow away the SBS book-shelf speakers.

If you could also help me out here. Do I need a receiver/amp like the denon? Doesn't the sound card do all the processing? Is there a certain creative sound card that I can just get a dedicated external amp, and the sound card will connect directly to the external amp. I always found those Receiver/AMP combination things cheap, and I personally like to have amp/receiver separate.
 
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eddie500 said:
Thanks for the info Sycraft: I may consider these. Actually with the sheilding I am a bit OCD about that. Bascially I worry for my hard drive. Probably it would never do anything but it is the thought of it. I just googled this link.
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Don't listen to those idiots. They are just trying to hock their products. You do not need any magnetic shielding for speakers because of harddrives. That massive sub you see in my pic isn't shielded and I've had it for years with no adverse effects. There are three reasons for this:

1) Magnets obey the inverse cube law, meaning magnetic field drops with the cube of distance away from them. This leads to a sharp drop in field strength at a short distance. You can find this yourself by taking a magnet and flipping it so it is the opposite of another magnet and then feeling around. You'll find that the repulsion is withing a very small area, past that there is nothing.

2) Harddrives are already magnetically shielded. They have powerful magnets in them, but you'll notice they don't stick to things. They are shielded because of their powerful magnets. Not so much form worry about stray fields, but so they don't adhere to your case.

3) The magnetic power needed to write to a harddrive is immense. Like I said, they have amazingly powerful magnets in them (we tear them apart at work all the time). These magnets sit mere inches form the platters, connected to the heads to be used to make the drive work. You couldn't induce that kind of magnetic field with a speaker, probably even setting the drive on the magnet itself.

So don't worry. It is not needed. At all.

These maybe do look like what I am looking for. They can also be paired with that receiver, as the watt handling is up to 80 watts.
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Watt handling isn't a big deal. You just need to make sure your speakers and amps are powerful enough to handle enough to make you happy. You can have a bigger amp than speakers, or bigger speakers than amp. You just need to not overdrive things. You can actually do as much or more damage to speakers overdriving an amp that is too small then putting too much power in them with a large amp.

Just don't abuse the volume dial and you are good. Personally I have a 70 watt amp feeding speakers rated to 250 watts because that's all I need and I like the amp.

SInce I am really new to speakers, are the quality of these well worth the money? Are these known to be some of the best quality speakers in this price range?
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I think so. SVS continually impresses me with their products. The MTS-01s I got are about $1100 and the sound better than most $4000 speakers I've heard.

The reason I recommend SVS is because when it was my money, they were who I chose and I've been real happy. If I wasn't, I'd have sent them back (they take returns with like 45 days).

Do audiophiles usually recommend these?
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Audiophiles can go piss up a rope. They recommend stupid shit for stupid reasons. They listen with their wallets, not their ears. They probably wouldn't recommend them because they aren't pricey enough. However regardless, audiophiles don't know what they are talking about.

Are these speakers good for computer gaming. The reason I ask is, I do not know if computer gaming speakers need any special quality to them compared to movie speakers.
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Sure they'll work great. Games are, if anything, less demanding than movies. Movies have extremely dynamic sound and heavy bass. They'll do real nice for games. Games need nothing at all special. The only thing they need for small speakers is to redirect the bass to the sub, which your receiver will handle for you.

How much better would tower speakers sound over the book-shelf speakers? Like wold those MTS speakers really blow away the SBS book-shelf speakers.
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Well that's kinda two different issues. The MTS-01s would blow away the SBS speakers for sure, as you'd expect since they are far more expensive. They use much higher end components and have a positively stunning sound stage. Things like a $220 tweeter. The tweeter alone in each MTS speaker costs almost as much a pair of SBS speakers.

I can't say enough good things about them. However, an M-series setup blows your budget rather badly hence I didn't recommend it. You'd have to look more like $4000-5000 to get that kind of setup.

Now in general with tower speakers what they offer is deeper bass, and perhaps a bit better midrange. When you have a sub, it isn't a huge deal since you just send low frequencies to the sub. However tower speakers let you lower the crossover which improves the sub's performance and gives a bit better imaging (to a point).

Big deal? Not really. I just like towers and I could afford them so I got them. I'd have no reservations about using their MBS bookshelves as my mains if I needed to.

If you could also help me out here. Do I need a receiver/amp like the denon?
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Well, it is a bit complex. So do you NEED a receiver? No. What you need is 5 channels of amplification. However getting 5 channels of amplification with stand alone amps will cost you more than a receiver. Reason is amps are seen as high end or pro units and thus there aren't any good cheap ones I'm aware of. While you don't need a super duper amp or anything, amp quality is kinda overrated, you don't want a piece of crap either.

Cheapest good 5-channel amp I know of is the UPA-5 which runs you $600. Great amp, but it is $600 just for an amp. You are looking at a receiver around half-ish of that.

Doesn't the sound card do all the processing?
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No. I mean it can do the essentials, but it can't do some other nice things. Here are the reasons I own a receiver (a Denon 3080CI if you are wondering). I used to have just power amps connected to a soundcard got a receiver, and I'd never go back:

1) Room equalization. This is one I just can't get enough of. Audyssey MultEQ, which properly calibrated, is just dynamite. Your room messes with your sound, rather badly. All rooms do unless they are specifically built for acoustics. While treating the room is the "right" option that will give the best sound, that is expensive and involved putting up all kinds of acoustic dampening materials. Few people are willing to do that in home. So MultEQ is the next best thing. It measures the response around your seat and then builds a FIR filter to correct it. Works amazingly well. I love it.

2) Auto calibration. Part of MultEQ is also a levels/distance check. The receiver will sync the levels of your speakers, accurate to 0.5dB, and the distance/delay, accurate to 0.1ft. X-Fis can do that, though not as accurate on distance, but it is all manual. I like setting out a mic and hitting go and having things work right.

3) No ground loops. A massive problem when dealing with the analogue outs of a computer to amps is ground loops. You get a hum or buzz from your speakers under certain conditions, sometimes all the time, sometimes when the computer is loaded, it varies. Pain in the ass, and hard to get rid of. A receiver eliminates that, as the computer is decoupled from the sound equipment.

4) A volume knob. It is real nice to have precise, easy, adjustment of master volume.

5) Per-channel crossovers. The X-Fis cross all speakers at one point. That is not ideal, in particular in my setup where there are towers (with lower response) and bookshelves. Denon (and many other) receivers can cross over each channel group where it needs to be.

I always found those Receiver/AMP combination things cheap, and I personally like to have amp/receiver separate.
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Well you can do that, it just costs more. Denon's CI line of receivers have outputs for other amps. I personally use a Rotel RB-1050 amp for my front speakers, and use the 3080's amps for all others.

Do note you can get rather good amps in receivers, particularly if you spend money. Personally I'd buy a better receiver, rather than external amps, until you have a pretty good one.

Also there's no point in going crazy on amps if you are getting reasonably priced speakers. The speakers are ALWAYS the biggest problem for sound. No sense in getting $250 speaker pairs and running them with a $1000 amp. Get better speakers first, then look at better amps if you are willing to spend the cash.

As I said, when it was my money, I got SVS speakers and a Denon receiver, and I'm real happy. Granted mine are higher end, but then so were my demands. I was upgrading from a pretty high end system to begin with.

In particular MultEQ (or MultEQ XT in my case, the higher end version) just blows me away. It makes a massive difference in the quality of sound. I am 100% sold on it.

Do note that Denon isn't your only option, there are plenty of other receiver makers, and even others who use Audyssey. I just really like Denon's offerings and they are the only one I know that does MultEQ on cheaper products. The others you have oto go for their premium gear.
 
This is great info for anybody else looking to make the switch. Sycraft has done an excellent job explaining.

One thing I'd like to add:
It doesn't have to cost $1500 to get a good setup. I bought a used Onkyo TX-SR601 receiver for $120, a rebadged HSU sub ($180) from Parts-express.com and a bookshelf speaker kit where i soldered the crossovers myself ($130/pair).
The setup sounds phenomenal. You can spend <$500 and have a really nice sounding system for your computer.
Here's my thread:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1397901

Also, the BIC V1220 or F12 would be excellent choices for a computer subwoofer at <$200.
 
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i agree totally, i have a VERY old kenwood amp that i bought for $20 and a pair of JBL 2600 bookshelf speakers that i got for $70 and i think it sounds fantastic (for the money) at the moment i am happy with my setup. I would recommend that you take your time in purchasing but if you see something that's a fantastic deal jump on it. Once you have a setup you could go back and maybe buy better speakers or buy a new amp/receiver but whatever you do. Don't buy a "PC stereo" setup go with a receiver/amp and speakers
 
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