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Current SFF user, likely gonna go back...

G

gemini8026

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 12, 2003
Messages
340
I currently own a Soltek 3401.

P4 2.6 o/c'd to 3.2
1 gig ram
All in wonder 9600 pro


It's small, it looks pretty cool, its fairly stable. But I dont like leaving it on. Im worried about Hard Drive heat issues. The front face is chintzy, the little plastic tabs on my USB port tray broke off.

The system gets hot when im doing my audio processing, you certainly notice the fan noise when it boots in.

I could have overclocked more, but heat would kill me, It would shut down after 2 cycles of 3dMark2003 at 3.4.

I bought it to replace a huge Chieftec Matrix Case, I hated moving it and my 21" monitor. But I havent had to move, so I paid a premium just to have "an SFF factor" case.

I think im going to go to a new Super Lanboy case. A high quality Antec PSU, and do things that route.

SFF is cool, and many people really wanna get into it, but truth be told, its fairly over-rated. In the end, you still have a mess of wires in the back, so portability isnt a huge concern.



Any other people out there done the SFF thing and gone back to normal? I think its fairly over-rated, considering it's $$$ to get into.


this post wasnt necessary, I was just kinda bored, curious who all there has gone to the dark side, and came back :p
 
If you woulda bought a shuttle instead of POS Soltek, you probably wouln't be giving it a second thought,
 
Heh - no need for rude comments silly! ;)

I've never heard of "Soltek"....lol

All I've heard of; of SFF barebones are Shuttle and Biostar. Shuttle is better than biostar.

Wish I bought a shuttle, but instead I bought an acrylic case which is a big mistake and a downsyndromized move on my part, since I lug my case back and forth to my dad's house every weekend... :mad:
 
Go read the reviews on the 3401... It's out there, and the Shuttle is by no means heads and tails above.

Acrylic was NEVER in my want list. Fingerprints + scratches + I dont think hardware is pleasant to look at.

I wish those damn Super Lanboys didnt have a window on them.
 
Originally posted by gemini8026
I wish those damn Super Lanboys didnt have a window on them.
Click to expand...

Put a piece of construction paper behind it and write "nO caN sEe!"
 
i love the shuttle i think they are really nice machines

i am on my second one now..
i gave up the full tower and never looked back
 
The shuttle G2 case series are almost all aluminum and of great build quality. Soltek is highly overrated.
 
Originally posted by gemini8026
Any other people out there done the SFF thing and gone back to normal? I think its fairly over-rated, considering it's $$$ to get into.
Click to expand...
I will never go back... I definitely don't see any reason to.

As for your heat issues... I would recommend that you try to have some airflow over the hard drive if it worries you. Also, be warned that Maxtors seem to run hotter than other brands, if that is what you have.

Also, maybe you shouldn't be overclocking your system. Sure, people have overclocked SFF systems, but generally it requires more serious modifications to add extra cooling than full sized cases.

And, as far as a price premium, I don't know what you are talking about. My Shuttle case and motherboard cost $300... not any more than buying a decent full sized case and motherboard.
 
I paid about $240 for my case/psu/mobo.. I've got a Lian-Li, Enermax (350W), and NF7-S. You can certianly spend a lot less on a case/psu/mobo, or more, than I did, too. So yeah.. $300+ is a price premium. Not a huge one.. but it is. They're certainly getting cheaper and increasing their feature set, so this is less of a consideration now.
 
Originally posted by Drawshot
And, as far as a price premium, I don't know what you are talking about. My Shuttle case and motherboard cost $300... not any more than buying a decent full sized case and motherboard.
Click to expand...

decent mobo is $80~120

decent case is $50~$100

300 > 220

plus i would love to see you shove all the stuff in my mini-tower (which is so jammed with stuff) into an SFF...

they are nice, but not for everyone
 
Originally posted by pHatalbOom
All I've heard of; of SFF barebones are Shuttle and Biostar. Shuttle is better than biostar.
Click to expand...

LOL and what are you basing this on other than Shuttle has a larger product line? Find me a review where the Biostar 200n doesn't beat the SN41G2 Theres about 8 I've read and I've never seen it happen. I mean if you like having a case that you can barely move your hand around because everythings so damn cramped then go with shuttle.
 
I've gone the SFF route for my desktops and I am going to only have a large cube for my server. Otherwise everything will be SFF.
 
Originally posted by FLECOM
plus i would love to see you shove all the stuff in my mini-tower (which is so jammed with stuff) into an SFF...
Click to expand...

well, lets see here.

I can "shove" a DVD/CD writer, an AGP and one PCI card and two HDDs in my little Shuttle.

what else would need to be "shoved" in there?

if I needed something that would hold 32 HDDs, then thats what a server cabinet would be used for. but like someone also said above, I ditched my full tower a while ago and havent looked back since.

I have been more than happy with my small, quiet and pretty fast (P4 @ 3.3Ghz) SFF system.
 
My desktop has 2 optical drives (DVD and CDRW) floppy and zip drives, both of which are not *necessary* but they're a pretty nice convenience when I need to get some files to a lab computer for class, and 2 hard drives. I'll admit I wouldn't miss PCI slots (much) as I'm only using one, and thats for an extra ata controller. There *are* some people out there that actually use the expansion room in a full ATX case/mobo, though. :)

Personally I'd love to have a SFF PC for a more portable gaming solution, but I wouldn't want it as my only PC - and I can't really justify another PC *just* for gaming when I'm perfectly capable of carrying my mid-tower around.

"They are nice, but not for everyone" is a PERFECT description.
 
Originally posted by FLECOM
decent mobo is $80~120

decent case is $50~$100

300 > 220

plus i would love to see you shove all the stuff in my mini-tower (which is so jammed with stuff) into an SFF...

they are nice, but not for everyone
Click to expand...
Well, the SN45G that I bought for $300, is now $230...

Also, I think our opinions differ slightly on what decent motherboards and cases are:

For example...

When I think of a decent motherboard, it still usually costs at least $100:
Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe $115
Abit AN7 $104

And as for decent cases, they are usually around $150-$200 (after you buy a seperate power supply):
Coolermaster cases $120-$158 (without power supply)
Lian Li cases $90-$140 (without power supply)

Prices have dropped slightly for the SFF and the full sized parts, so my initial statement was a bit off. But, prices are still comparable, and it is actually slightly cheaper to go the SFF route now.

You are probably right about not being able to shove all the things you have installed in your regular sized case into a SFF. But, do you really need all that stuff?
 
your definition of a "decent" case is high end for most people. One like me. I do not like to spend a lot on a case, especially when there are plenty of cheap ones that are awesome cases, even if they have their own little quirks.

I am perfectly fine with my "cheap" Chieftec that you can easily find for around 40-60 bucks, then a nice powersupply xx>50 or less, not everyone has to buy antec purepower, there are many great alternatives.
 
Originally posted by _Sin_
your definition of a "decent" case is high end for most people.
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Yeah... I realized that after I posted. But I think that most of the SFF equipment can also be classified as 'high end'.
 
Although I haven't looked at your model specifically, I thought Soltek used Shuttle motherboards and were the high end of barebones. I might be wrong, but I thought Soltek was on the same level, if not better than Shuttle so calling it a POS is jumping to conclusions.
 
Trust me, Soltek is not known for their high end components. Ever look at the high end mobo' reviews the past few years. See any soltek in any of them? No? Well, theres a reason why.
 
Originally posted by Drawshot

And as for decent cases, they are usually around $150-$200 (after you buy a seperate power supply):
Coolermaster cases $120-$158 (without power supply)
Lian Li cases $90-$140 (without power supply)

Prices have dropped slightly for the SFF and the full sized parts, so my initial statement was a bit off. But, prices are still comparable, and it is actually slightly cheaper to go the SFF route now.

You are probably right about not being able to shove all the things you have installed in your regular sized case into a SFF. But, do you really need all that stuff?
Click to expand...

(oops - like like this has been covered.. crap :))

I'd call something like an Antec w/ 350W PSU for ~$70 a *decent* case.. I'd certainly classify Lian-Li and Coolermaster as high-end, although Lian-Li seems to have gotten quite a bit cheaper lately. Anything more expensive than that falls in the "insane" category :p I agree entirely with your choices of motherboards as 'decent.' Its all just semantics about a preference tho.. So it doesn't really matter :) Personally I'd have a hard time without at least two hard drives, zip and a DVD/CDRW drive - so SFF for my main pc is out. I'd certainly recommend a SFF PC for someone like my girlfriend or my mom, who certainly don't need any PCI slots or more than one hard drive.
 
I have a SFF for my main "bitch box". If I do need a massive filestorage, then I will get a full tower. But for me, having something tiny ass and still pull the punches around the larger towers its a no brainer, expecially with me travelling.
 
I absolutely love my Shuttle, and don't foresee going back to a full, or even a mid-tower as my main box any time soon.

I have a 9700 Pro AIW and a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz, so I have a really sweet LAN/entertainment box. The SN45G is a great machine, and I was able to run my Barton 2500+ at 200x12 with no effort at all. To top it all off I have the Shuttle bag, which is a godsend when traveling to LAN parties.

I have everything I need in the bag except for my keyboard and monitor. One trip carrying my Shuttle in one hand and my monitor in the other while every one else is using a cart to drag their machines in to the party is aweosme :)
 
Originally posted by ra-odin
Its all just semantics about a preference tho.. So it doesn't really matter :) Personally I'd have a hard time without at least two hard drives, zip and a DVD/CDRW drive - so SFF for my main pc is out. I'd certainly recommend a SFF PC for someone like my girlfriend or my mom, who certainly don't need any PCI slots or more than one hard drive.
Click to expand...
Yeah... i agree most of this is about semantics. And the fact that I've just had too many bad experiences with cheap hardware, I guess. But this also boils down to figuring out that there is a lot of extra stuff in full sized cases that you don't need.

Two hard drives... well... it is possible to fit two in my system, but heat is an issue. I do have two hard drives (see sig), but I keep one in an external firewire case.

Zip drive... you could fit it in my system without any problem. Or, you could get an external zip drive. But really, with the ability to burn CDRWs and DVD+-RWs... do you really need a zip drive? The zip drive has gone the way of the floppy I am afraid.

As for PCI cards... I don't know what to do with the one slot I have. Everything I need is already onboard... LAN, Firewire, USB2, and sound (it even has optical in/out). I guess I could put in a modem if I need to. Many people do put in dedicated sound cards, but the onboard sound is fine for me.

While the placement of the AGP slot does not have room for any of the video cards that have massive heatsinks that take up an extra slot, my 9600pro works quite nicely.
 
Originally posted by Drawshot
You are probably right about not being able to shove all the things you have installed in your regular sized case into a SFF. But, do you really need all that stuff?
Click to expand...

yes very much so, since my machine is not just for play, but for playing a lot! :D

i will tell you what, just give me one with onboard U160 scsi, and i will buy one ;)
 
Originally posted by FLECOM
yes very much so, since my machine is not just for play, but for playing a lot! :D

i will tell you what, just give me one with onboard U160 scsi, and i will buy one ;)
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Well... That is what the one pci slot is for!

:D

Don't get me wrong... I do know of a couple downsides to the SFF system I have, but no one else has even come close to mentioning them. So, lemme cut right to them...

1. As I mentioned in my previous post... the location of the AGP slot is against the edge of the motherboard and thus is right against the case. Graphics cards that take up two slots, or have massive coolers will not fit. (well, unless you are handy with a dremel.)

2. The placement of the AGP and PCI slot in the system require that any cards installed in them be removed to access any other parts of the system.

meh... :rolleyes: and I can live with both of those issues.
 
actually most U160 controllers are 64bit pci, so by running it @ 32bit, you are holding it back to 132MB/s :p

i actually like the ones that have the AGP on the outside... then you can put a PCI card without choking the fan on teh AGP card

and you can put a nicely placed suck-hole to give the vid card fresh air
 
Originally posted by FLECOM
actually most U160 controllers are 64bit pci, so by running it @ 32bit, you are holding it back to 132MB/s :p

i actually like the ones that have the AGP on the outside... then you can put a PCI card without choking the fan on teh AGP card

and you can put a nicely placed suck-hole to give the vid card fresh air
Click to expand...
Ah... I forgot about that. I guess that limits you to server class boards then. No SFF for you!

And, yeah... There are some pretty cool SFF mods out there for the video card. Some people cut out a hole big enough to fit a massive heat sink on their card, and have the entire heat sink just hanging out the side. As for me... I'm no good with a dremel, so I'll just stick with the stuff that fits.
 
For some reason I seriously wanna sell my current P4 setup and buy a SB75G2. I have absolutely not fucking idea why, but I just really do for some reason. I have a really nice setup, so I dunno why the hell I would downgrade to a SFF, but im so sick of moving a 60 pound case even downstairs for a LAN party.

But whats holding me back is im really worried about shuttles future with next gen hardware in three areas....


1. Power
The current 250watt isn't gonna cut it for powering prescotts and next gen video cards. Your only going to be able to transform so much AC to DC is a small space reliably and keep it cool. I sincerely hope shuttle is planning external PSU's, as thats the only way its gonna happen.

2. Heat.
Once again, prescott has laid a major barrier for SFF's. The current ICE system in shuttles is in no way shape or form capable of handling prescotts heat output. Back to the drawing board for a much beefier system.

3. Room
Lets face it, your gonna wanna upgrade sometime. As cute as the SFF is, it really limits your ability to upgrade. You know this from the start when you buy one, but at the same time, more airflow is definently a good thing with todays hardware.
 
1) actually the PSU powers radeon9800XTs, Audiguy 2 pros, 2 harddrives AND one optical drive easily. It runs hot, but people have done it with no ill effects.

2) I dont care who you are, prescott is a piece of crap. I dont want an oven in my house, thats why im buying my A64. Better performance, 64bit ready and runs cooler than the backside of my hand.

3) I have mine running with only ONE 80mm exaust. The ICE is incredibly powerful for my barton 2500. I have my 9600pro overclocked WITH a tv tuner card, and a seagate harddrive. My PSU doesnt get hot at all, my idle temps are 38C, under heavy load it only gets to 46C. I dont know why everyone bitches about the temps... must be those P4s causing everyone hell. Sure as hell isnt my AMD turning up the heat like everyone still yells :p
 
1... Despite what some people may say, the power supplies are big enough for everything you can fit in the case.

2... Bah... prescott... whatever.... I'm sure Shuttle will engineer something to cool it properly. Anyway, I agree with MW... I'd rather get an A64 anyway.

3... Upgrades... well, I think this relates to my rant about people having more stuff in their systems than they really need. When you need to upgrade... replace that part... and remove the old one! What is the problem here?
 
Originally posted by Drawshot
Yeah... i agree most of this is about semantics. And the fact that I've just had too many bad experiences with cheap hardware, I guess. But this also boils down to figuring out that there is a lot of extra stuff in full sized cases that you don't need.

Two hard drives... well... it is possible to fit two in my system, but heat is an issue. I do have two hard drives (see sig), but I keep one in an external firewire case.

Zip drive... you could fit it in my system without any problem. Or, you could get an external zip drive. But really, with the ability to burn CDRWs and DVD+-RWs... do you really need a zip drive? The zip drive has gone the way of the floppy I am afraid.

As for PCI cards... I don't know what to do with the one slot I have. Everything I need is already onboard... LAN, Firewire, USB2, and sound (it even has optical in/out). I guess I could put in a modem if I need to. Many people do put in dedicated sound cards, but the onboard sound is fine for me.

While the placement of the AGP slot does not have room for any of the video cards that have massive heatsinks that take up an extra slot, my 9600pro works quite nicely.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, yes I do need my zip drive. I'm in college and thats what the lab computers have - so thats what I use :) CD-RW would work one direction - but the lab computers don't have CD-RW drives, so I wouldn't be able to get files home again.

I suppose I could use a bunch of external drives, but thats more expensive, and starts eating into that space savings. :) I'm using all but 2 of the drive bays in my mid-tower already, though.. So it certainly works better for me :)
 
The [H] mainpage had a review in the last week or so of one of the newest Shuttles, that has an external power supply.
 
This is my Second Shuttle...

But I still have both, a reg Gamebox, and a Redhat server that is a normal Desktop/PC Case.

As for the Shuttle, I will keep it forever... I love it. As for the heat, I have never really had a problem. I bought a SLOT cooler that was all the rage years ago and put it in the empty PCI slot and the temps run just fine. The extra exhaust fan really clears out any extra heat.
 
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