CRT vs LCD

[JPRacer]

I'm going to replace my old monitor soon and was planning to get a LCD one but after reading some posts it seem that there's a lot of problems with this technology.

My main use will be 360 gaming and CAD/CAM. I was planning to get a Dell or Benq 24" but now I'm not so sure and think of getting a 19" CRT.

How's the 24" Dell and Benq LCD look compare to a CRT (like a Viewsonic G90fb)?

 

[MrGuvernment]

what problems have you heard?

the 2 main ones that apply to consumer level LCD's are

Blacks arent as black as they are on CRT's - but sometimes some calibration can fix this
FPS - is limited by the LCD's / DVI cable, often 60Mhz, and if you dont lock the Vsync, you can get tearing in images.

 

[GreenMonkey]

Blacks arent as black as they are on CRT's - but sometimes some calibration can fix this

No, it can't. It can help minimize it, but not fix it entirely. Blacks (contrast ratio, black level detail, etc) are a big weakness on an LCD. I'm sure you'll see a lot of CRTers post comments on this in the thread.

IMO LCD black detail is simply not up to par. I'm moderately OK with DLP, and I think Plasmas are very good, but I can't deal with the poor black detail of LCDs.

 

[twoeyes]

I have a 2007FPW and a GDM-FW900 and I'd say yes you do miss a lot of the picture when you're say in dark areas in games.

 

[joemama]

The problem these days is the very small selection of crt monitors..most that I've seen have been the cheaper/low end models and in that case you would be better off with a good lcd. Personally I could never go back to crt....with proper calibration the black level issue can be minimized and to me text always looks sharper and easier to read on an lcd.

 

[claudione314]

It should also be remarked that not many people would be able to notice that LCDs have poorer black levels unless they saw one side by side with a CRT. I had never suffered from this issue until I saw a Bravia LCD HDTV (and those are damn good) side-by-side with a Trinitron. Totally different story.

But I only use LCDs, nonetheless, and I don't care. It's just not noticeable in everyday use and/or unless you're a videophile, and CRTs are just way too big for me.

 

[Scyles]

I'd say yes you do miss a lot of the picture when you're say in dark areas in games.

I think this is the biggest issue. It can be a real pain to play dark games on an LCD.

There's actually quite a huge list of disadvantages LCD has compared to CRT. Things like input lag eliminate LCD for competitive gamers. Fixed aspect ratio is always a pain for gamers. Then there's possibility of dead pixels and poor backlight uniformity.

IPS is the only LCD technology that I'd consider getting. TN just has horrible colors to my trained eyes, and S-PVA has terrible color shifting. Gamers and graphics professionals would be better off with a CRT, but most people don't know what quality is until you do a side-by-side comparison.

 

[Volucris]

For myself, it's not a debate of color and performance, but a debate of the size and portability of the monitor. I frequently travel to LAN parties and I find LCD's much easier to transport. Also an LCD takes up much less space on my tiny desk.

Right now I have a Viewsonic VX924. It's a TN panel and shows. I really want to find a widescreen S-IPS panel because I am a photographer and I find it hard to edit photos on a TN panel.

I anyone has a solid recommendation for an S-IPS widescreen lcd, please tell me.

 

[JPRacer]

Ok so, since I don't have a problem with space and weight I should stick with CRT then, right? Problem is they are hard to find now. Anyone can comment on the Viewsonic G90fb?

 

[mathesar]

I have a FW900 CRT and a 1600:1 NEC 20WMGX2 LCD (calibrated) sitting side by side, The black levels on the LCD are extremely weak compared to the CRT (mainly when watching movies or gaming at night) but otherwise the image quality on the LCD is top notch.

 

[the gamer]

Ok so, since I don't have a problem with space and weight I should stick with CRT then, right? Problem is they are hard to find now. Anyone can comment on the Viewsonic G90fb?

There's one on Ebay Here

I myself still use Crt's (Have a Dual-Setup) but I am planning on making it a Triple/Quad setup in the next couple of months, I do 3d Modeling, Texturing, Video Editing, and Website editing so thats why I use this setup and because you can get some good CRT's off Ebay now for dirt cheap, while LCD cost heaps more.

It just depends on how much work space you want to save .

Someday when I get a job I will more or less go LCD, but till then I am staying with the CRT's .

 

[JPRacer]

Are the black levels on a LCD that bad? Can you see the difference by itself or only when running a CRT and LCD side-by-side? And generally, how's the input lag affecting gameplay when playing a fast action game like Gears of War? Is it really noticable?

Between a Viewsonic G90fb CRT, a Dell 2407 and BenQ FP241 what would be better for Xbox 360 gamming and CAD/CAM apps considering that weight/space is not a problem and I don't care plugging/unplugging the cable between xbox and pc?

Also, reliability is a very important factor for me. Is LCD a reliable technology?

 

[artmonkey]

Also, reliability is a very important factor for me. Is LCD a reliable technology?

I have had had about 8 now, plus I work in a big company where there are hundreds. From my experiece I would say that LCD is slightly more reliable than CRT.

 

[Optic]

Over the past week i just bought and sold my first LCD monitor, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824112006. Newegg had a killer deal on it and it had good reviews, so i figured what the hell. After turning down the brightness and trying to calibrate it. I played a few games like splinter cell and painkiller, darker games, and was really disappointed with the blacks and colors in general. Everything looked so washed out. I messed around with brightness/contrast/color settings forever and just couldn't get it to look good.

So I'm now back on my old trusty NEC 17in crt. Thank goodness . Maybe i just bought the wrong LCD, but after my first purchase, I'm hesitant to buy a second.

Has anyone used one of these monitors?

 

[mathesar]

EDIT: double post

 

[claudione314]

Over the past week i just bought and sold my first LCD monitor, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824112006. Newegg had a killer deal on it and it had good reviews, so i figured what the hell.

The 20.1" Sceptre is a very good LCD. Although you can find better black levels on others, such as Samsung and BenQ, it won't get toooooo much better. If this really bothers you then you might want to switch back to CRT, or go plasma.

 

[mathesar]

Are the black levels on a LCD that bad? Can you see the difference by itself or only when running a CRT and LCD side-by-side?

It depends on the room lighting, if you're used to playing games or watching movies at night (or in a dark room) the LCDs weaker black levels will be very obvious without having a CRT present, it causes a 'washed out' effect in most movies and darker games such as Condemned / Fear, the deepest black appears as more of a medium / dark gray. Blame this on the technology ...the back lighting on LCDs is the main culprit.

I only have compare pics of my previous CRT & LCD but this gives you an idea:

Sony G520P CRT:

Dell 2001FP LCD (Monitor brightness set on 0,Contrast adjustment unavailable over DVI):

Glady like 20WMGX2 has noticabey deeper blacks than the 2001FP but still lacking compared to a CRT, Ill have to take new pics.

 

[UltimaBoB]

I'd STILL get a 22" aperture grill refurb for a few hundred and ride it for 12-18 months then look at the 24" to 30" LCD market then.

 

[Scyles]

Here's the latest info from CES regarding contrast ratios of LCD's:

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-ent...een-size-its-contrast-that-matters-227801.php

You can see from the side-by-side comparisons the effect that improved contrast offers over your traditional LCD. Apparently, a few manufacturers have been experimenting with new backlight technologies to achieve these contrast ratios. Unfortunately, these are still the dynamically adjusting backlights that we've seen on models such as NEC 20WMGX2 and the LG TN panels that boast 2000:1 contrast ratio. Users have mentioned that these dynamic backlights are less than ideal because you can notice the backlight jumping between bright and dim, which is annoying.

Mathesar, have you experimented with the Advanced DVM feature of your NEC? I'd like to know what your conclusion is on these dynamic backlights.

 

[Ender1183]

I'd STILL get a 22" aperture grill refurb for a few hundred and ride it for 12-18 months then look at the 24" to 30" LCD market then.

Man this is what i was thinking of doing but have been waiting for a 24" lcd...

I am considering getting a sony FW900 24" crt for 350 or the hp one for 275, should i get one? I have been waiting to see if any better lcds are going to come out in the next 6 months before i go with an other CRT for a few years. Is there anything on the horizon that will have less motion blur and good blacks?

 

[dualblade]

because of the emissive nature of lcd backlights, i don't think, in their current form, they will ever have perfect uniformity or good black levels. when led backlighting becomes more mainstream then perhaps lcd can shine. even if the black levels and uniformity were good, i've never seen an lcd that doesn't have light bleed in the corners or edge of the display. i edit photos, and it's really frustrating to see what you've printed isn't like what's on the screen. i've edited pictures on an lcd meant to have silhouettes, but showed light and detail in silhouetted areas on the print.

 

[JPRacer]

Thank you mathesar for posting these 2 pictures. This give me a good idea now and I really think I can live with that no problem. I already boost the brightness of my CRT a little high and the blacks are not really black.

Anyone can give me a tip or two between a 24" Dell and BenQ?


Thank you.

 

[mathesar]

Here's the latest info from CES regarding contrast ratios of LCD's:

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-ent...een-size-its-contrast-that-matters-227801.php

You can see from the side-by-side comparisons the effect that improved contrast offers over your traditional LCD. Apparently, a few manufacturers have been experimenting with new backlight technologies to achieve these contrast ratios. Unfortunately, these are still the dynamically adjusting backlights that we've seen on models such as NEC 20WMGX2 and the LG TN panels that boast 2000:1 contrast ratio. Users have mentioned that these dynamic backlights are less than ideal because you can notice the backlight jumping between bright and dim, which is annoying.

This is a great image from the link you posted ,the TV on the left is *exactly* the same symptoms Im seeing on the NEC during darker scenes, my CRT looks like the image on the right even in a dark room.

Mathesar, have you experimented with the Advanced DVM feature of your NEC? I'd like to know what your conclusion is on these dynamic backlights.

Unfortunately this feature doesn't work very well the picture goes from bright to dim when it shouldn't be doing so (sometimes it gets confused and flickers back and forth), fortunately if you use the Standard DV setting it wont attempt to adjust the screen so you can manually enable or disable Advanced DV , For example when browsing the web ill enable Advanced DV which cuts the contrast in half, this reduces eye strain as the default brightness on this LCD is overkill IMO. When watching movies having Advanced DV enabled improves the black levels as well (slightly) Also using Standard mode has the least amount of banding in fact when comparing test patterns on my CRT the LCD is pretty much 99.5% banding free ,All of the other modes exhibit pretty obvious banding.