CRT Dying, need advice

C

Commander Suzdal

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Messages
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This is my first foray into the Displays forum; as the title says, my trusty 19" CRT is getting ready to wave bye-bye. It now has to "warm up" before it will display the desktop without flickering/rolling at the top. So I've been shopping around, and my eye is immediately caught by the wide disparity in specs at my price range. I've read the sticky on TFT types and several other threads. Here are my remaining issues.

I'm mostly interested in gaming quality. Blurry text would be bad, though.

My budget is as close to $200 as possible.

Something comparable to the size of my CRT or slightly bigger is fine.

I don't think my current GPU can handle 1680x1050 or above.

Now, as I've been shopping, I see there are some models in my general target range that feature 3000:1 contrast ratio and 2ms response time. Do these features represent important value, or are other things more important in real-world use, like panel type?

BestBuy has several LG models that are in the ballpark with the above specs. Are they good? Great? Meh?

Thanks in advance.
 
Honestly? I'd encourage you to save up money and try and get past $200 because I don't think you're going to be real happy with what you can get at that price point. Try to get around $400-$500-ish or so, at least.
 
Q-BZ said:
Honestly? I'd encourage you to save up money and try and get past $200 because I don't think you're going to be real happy with what you can get at that price point. Try to get around $400-$500-ish or so, at least.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be able to justify a new monitor at all if this one wasn't dying, and I can only make a case for the $200-250 range because right now it isn't possible to save much off of that without making huge compromises.

Why do I use words like "justify" and "make a case" and keep the budget so low?

1. I have a wife.

2. She is currently supporting the family. ;)

Besides, show me a monitor outside that price range that is 17-19 inches with a rez between 1280x1024 and 1440x900. I doubt there are many, and I can't afford a $400-500 monitor PLUS a $400-500 video card to take advantage of more.

So, thanks for the thoughts but I have to work with what I have.
 
I would give some serious thought to another CRT, there are still some new ones available at 19" if you don't mind it being 4:3 rather than widescreen:
http://www.pricerunner.com/cl/25/Mo...ice_min=150&saved_products=0&a_614=Tube+(CRT)


The key limitation with your budget in the type of LCD panel you can afford i.e. you will almost certainly only get TN for this money and that means very limited view angles, particularly on the vertical angles. Go & have a look at a few on display somewhere - they all behave in a similar way so it doesn't matter which brands/models.

Observe how the colour & brightness changes from top to bottom. If you don't notice or don't care then TN flat panel may be quite satisfactory for you. If it really bugs you then CRT or possibly 2nd hand VA/IPS panel types are the alternatives.

3000:1 is a meaningless 'dynamic contrast' & the real contrast is probably 1000:1 or less. If you look at models quoting 900:1-1000:1 real contrast or 2000:1-3000:1 dynamic they are all based around very similar panel types & you won't notice much between them. As for response times: 2ms or 5ms - not a whole lot of difference in reality, so I wouldn't worry about that either.

Stick to stores with a good returns policy & buy a known brand - LG are OK, as are Samsung, Acer, BenQ, Viewsonic, iiyama, NEC, HP, AOC, Dell, HannsG, Philips.

Just remember you're not going to get anything sensational at this price point, but if you go for the cheapest unknown brand you may run into unexpected build quality issues
 
perhaps negotiate a slightly larger budget, using the words "work" "productivity"?;)

I am supporting the family at the moment but play HL2 and GTR2 on occasion and they work fine at 1080p and mind you this is on a notebook from over a year ago with an x1600. This is beaten easily by a desktop x1600, so unless you are playing the most demanding games a 20-22" shouldn't be out of the question (the big jump is to 24" which start at 400 I believe)

In summary, I'd say that unless you want to get stuck with a brand like polaroid, sceptre, or kds, or w/e is out there now..best to spend to wait until your budget is more than that, or you may be disappointed with what you can get at that price range)
 
There were some incredible deals on new CRTs on eBay in the past in that price range. You'd have to see what's still there though and of course there is an element of risk involved there...
 
IanM said:
I would give some serious thought to another CRT, there are still some new ones available at 19" if you don't mind it being 4:3 rather than widescreen:
http://www.pricerunner.com/cl/25/Mo...ice_min=150&saved_products=0&a_614=Tube+(CRT)


The key limitation with your budget in the type of LCD panel you can afford i.e. you will almost certainly only get TN for this money and that means very limited view angles, particularly on the vertical angles. Go & have a look at a few on display somewhere - they all behave in a similar way so it doesn't matter which brands/models.

Observe how the colour & brightness changes from top to bottom. If you don't notice or don't care then TN flat panel may be quite satisfactory for you. If it really bugs you then CRT or possibly 2nd hand VA/IPS panel types are the alternatives.

3000:1 is a meaningless 'dynamic contrast' & the real contrast is probably 1000:1 or less. If you look at models quoting 900:1-1000:1 real contrast or 2000:1-3000:1 dynamic they are all based around very similar panel types & you won't notice much between them. As for response times: 2ms or 5ms - not a whole lot of difference in reality, so I wouldn't worry about that either.

Stick to stores with a good returns policy & buy a known brand - LG are OK, as are Samsung, Acer, BenQ, Viewsonic, iiyama, NEC, HP, AOC, Dell, HannsG, Philips.

Just remember you're not going to get anything sensational at this price point, but if you go for the cheapest unknown brand you may run into unexpected build quality issues
Click to expand...

Thanks, Ian, for some great info and advice. I was basing my decision to jump ship from CRT on the limited availablility at NewEgg and the zero availability (at 19" or above) in retail stores. I should have thought to cast my net a little wider, but I thought what I was seeing was representative of the market.

SH1 said:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-IN-BOX-DELL...yZ116350QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Click to expand...

SH1, that was one sweet deal. I had a heart-to-heart with She Who Must Be Obeyed and hit Buy It Now as soon as negotiations were concluded.

As for the rest of you, I checked this thread at 6:00 PM and did the buy about 6:45, then came back here to give my results and saw all the other replies. Wow! Some of those deals might have swayed me if I had seen them.

Thanks to ALL of you who went to the trouble to share your links and/or do shopping/research on my behalf. That community spirit is what keeps me here year after year, and makes me try to do the same whenever I can.

As for why I went CRT:

Multiple resolutions with no "native resolution" gotchas. I can do the best I can with my current GPU (which will vary from game to game) and still have headroom left when I upgrade that (after finding a job).

21" screen for less than I thought I would be spending for 17-19".

The superior viewing angle/brightness/color accuracy of a CRT.

That thing has a Trinitron tube, not a shadow mask--there's a reason why the word Trinitron gets respect!

No widescreen issues with games that don't support it--I estimate it will be another year or two before that issue is completely laid to rest.

And finally, I'm paying $174.99 shipped for a new-in-box monitor from a reputable seller, that probably cost $800-900 a year or two ago. That just gives me a warm fuzzy feeling all over... :D

Thanks again.
 
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vick1000 said:
I did it, and got a great 2005wfp for $217 shipped. The only 20" LCD near $200 that competes with CRT.
Click to expand...

Personal preference I guess.

To me there is to much risk involved buying a monitor online anyways. If it's not to my liking I want to be able to take it back.

Buying from ebay just adds a whole other level of concern with this kind of item.
 
Snotrocket said:
Personal preference I guess.

To me there is to much risk involved buying a monitor online anyways. If it's not to my liking I want to be able to take it back.

Buying from ebay just adds a whole other level of concern with this kind of item.
Click to expand...

With an LCD, my preference would definitely be to buy at a brick and mortar store. (And to return it quickly if there were bad pixels or such...)

Hoping my CRT lasts for a while though. (I prefer a CRT for the computer and my computer budget is more limited these days...)
 
Dude get an LCD no question and no doubt about it.
Choose a decent LCD moniter and brand and buy that puppy up.
I currently have 4 lcd moniters at home and couldn't be more happy.
Only 1 was defective...after like 3years.. =) but manufacture warranty so was good.

The prices now for LCD moniters have gone done a whole lot.
I say get like a 19" or something.
Back when i bought my moniters was like 500-600 bucks CDN.
Now its like under 200 =) Sweet and 19" and above good prices.
 
If you are so happy with TFTs, then tell us wat it would cost to get a ghosting free, inputlag free 2048*1536 TFT. Apparently, CRT can do it for 100 buck. (+75 delivery in USA)
 
This is the part that gets me excited as I wait for the unholy beast to arrive. I bought it solely based on the specs listed in the official description--1600x1200 at 85Hz, Trinitron tube, .24mm dot pitch. I had no idea until I went digging after buying it that the max res. was actually 2048x1536 :eek:, or that it has two VGA inputs and can switch between them with the push of a button, or that several review sites use/used the same model as their reference monitor for benchmarking games. It just gets better and better.

With the way the market is going, I'm sure this will be my last hurrah before LCD. At least I get to go out with a bang, and hopefully it will last long enough for thin-screen technology to improve and prices for good ones to come down. My guess is that I can get 3-4 years out of it if it hasn't lost some of its life expectancy just by sitting in a box for 2 or 3 years, and assuming that it wasn't dropped off the back of a truck or something. Where will LCD/OLED/Motorola carbon nanotube screens be by then? Probably leaps and bounds beyond where they are now.

Like many here, I work on people's computers at my home to earn extra dough from time to time. I don't have a spare monitor for testing and I've never gotten around to getting a KVM switch, so that dual input feature is going to make troubleshooting a lot simpler. No more hopping up and going around behind my desk to swap the monitor back and forth.
 
Commander Suzdal said:
*snip*
Click to expand...


I'm not going to argue any of your points, but you just bought an 80lb tank. I know because I just went from that CRT to a 22 inch LCD and I haven't looked back. The amount of real estate gained in my computer room and on the desk itself is unreal.

Another thing to think about when getting a CRT that big is the desk needed to support the damn thing. I made a couple U shaped desks with my old setup.
 
I can't imagene a beast on my desk :eek:. Seriously dude, why did you decide to go with CRT?
 
I think the one big advantage LCDs have over CRTs is the option to go really big...

(Assuming an already sturdy desk. And I realize CRTs are not fun to carry, but I'm talking stationary desktop displays...)
 
SH1 said:
I think the one big advantage LCDs have over CRTs is the option to go really big...

(Assuming an already sturdy desk. And I realize CRTs are not fun to carry, but I'm talking stationary desktop displays...)
Click to expand...

And most CRTs are ~5 years old. I don't have anything against CRTs, but let it go.
 
We don't have to, if new old stock ones are still available... :)

And the price/performance ratio of a CRT versus anything else is incredible...

(Not that I'd bin a Samsung 275T though...)
 
Snotrocket said:
I'm not going to argue any of your points, but you just bought an 80lb tank. I know because I just went from that CRT to a 22 inch LCD and I haven't looked back. The amount of real estate gained in my computer room and on the desk itself is unreal.

Another thing to think about when getting a CRT that big is the desk needed to support the damn thing. I made a couple U shaped desks with my old setup.
Click to expand...

Yeah--I was checking my UPS tracking info and the package is 78lbs on the nose. I have some things working in my favor on the ergonomic side though. My office at home is set up in a 12'x12' spare bedroom, and instead of facing a wall, my desk is placed roughly in the middle facing the door, much like in a "real" office. The desk itself is business-furniture style too. The legs, side panels, and drawers are all steel. The top is 1" thick chipboard with formica over it. It helps too that the monitor housing is one of the newer slimline styles that won't use up much more space than the tube itself requires.

If I was using the standard lightweight O'Sullivan type desk, it would probably collapse as soon as I put the thing on it.:)

I just got back from a trip to Office Depot shopping for a planner as a gift. While I was there I took a sidetrip to the monitor aisle--of course! The 19" widescreens were a joke--they looked like toys compared to my current monitor, let alone the new one. The 19" 4x3's were better, but still not great. That surprises me, too. For years now I thought (and told others) that one LCD advantage was that you actually got the listed diagonal size, not the smaller "viewable" size like on a CRT. It seemed like there was somewhat less than expected--My 19" CRT has an 18" viewable size, and the 19" LCD's looked about the same if not smaller. It made me wonder if the bezel of desktop LCDs covers some of the area of the panel much like on a CRT. Of course, without having them side by side my eyes might have been fooled.

All of that to say, I think you're right--I probably would have been dissatisfied with less than a 22" 16x9 or 20" 4x3, which would have taken me right out of my price range in a hurry--plus either tax or shipping, which come out about a wash where I live unless an online item happens to include free shipping. Those LCDs looked rather dim and washed out, too, unless maybe they had been turned down by the store to reduce the wear and tear.

On balance, I think I'll be glad I got one more CRT. I want an LCD, I really do--I like the form factor, the weight, the lower power draw, the sharpness. But I didn't fully understand when I started out that the good LCDs still cost 50-100% more than their consumer level brethren, and that the consumer models are pretty much bleah! Like I said above, I really hope that when the Dell dies, there will be thin panels that make me drool at prices I can afford.
 
hmz said:
And most CRTs are ~5 years old. I don't have anything against CRTs, but let it go.
Click to expand...

Newer isn't better just because it's newer. There are several posts above that highlight the advantages of a good CRT over a low-end LCD. Do you disagree with those points or???

A high-quality new-in-box 21" CRT like I bought is something I would have expected to pay $400-500 for, if I could find one at all. Plus killer shipping given the weight. At that price, I would have been crazy to buy the CRT. At $175 shipped, I would have been crazy not to.

The weight doesn't matter to me--I'm only going to move it once and I have heavy-duty furniture. The power draw isn't a problem. Electricity is 8 cents per kilowatt-hour where I live. Let's see--120W*15 hours=1800W=1.8kWh=15 cents a day, worst case. Vs. about 6 cents a day for a 19" LCD. Big difference proportionately, small difference on my monthly bill. Say $2 vs. $5 on a total bill that was $137 this month.
 
LCDs are sharper. I use a lower resolution on my CRT than I might otherwise to close some of that gap...

In terms of CRT positives, black level performance, is the one I most appreciate...
 
Commander Suzdal said:
This is the part that gets me excited as I wait for the unholy beast to arrive. I bought it solely based on the specs listed in the official description--1600x1200 at 85Hz, Trinitron tube, .24mm dot pitch. I had no idea until I went digging after buying it that the max res. was actually 2048x1536 :eek:, or that it has two VGA inputs and can switch between them with the push of a button, or that several review sites use/used the same model as their reference monitor for benchmarking games. It just gets better and better.

With the way the market is going, I'm sure this will be my last hurrah before LCD. At least I get to go out with a bang, and hopefully it will last long enough for thin-screen technology to improve and prices for good ones to come down. My guess is that I can get 3-4 years out of it if it hasn't lost some of its life expectancy just by sitting in a box for 2 or 3 years, and assuming that it wasn't dropped off the back of a truck or something. Where will LCD/OLED/Motorola carbon nanotube screens be by then? Probably leaps and bounds beyond where they are now.

Like many here, I work on people's computers at my home to earn extra dough from time to time. I don't have a spare monitor for testing and I've never gotten around to getting a KVM switch, so that dual input feature is going to make troubleshooting a lot simpler. No more hopping up and going around behind my desk to swap the monitor back and forth.
Click to expand...

No worries about life expectancy reduction, it won't degrade just sitting in a box, and I dropped my P1130 (rather I put it on a couch and the couch dropped it, it bounced off a coffee table onto the floor) and it works and looks fine. It's got one awesome feature that I just found out about after two years - the thing was starting to look dull and crappy, and in the menu there's a "color return" option that's only available if it's been on for like 30-60 minutes. It was never available for me before and I always forgot about it, but after selecting it, the screen flashed a bunch of different colors and for some reason looked WAY better afterwards once I turned the brightness back up.

BTW - unofficially, it does 1600x1200 @ 100hz, once you get used to that you notice flicker even at 85. Just download the drivers available online and edit the inf - everywhere you see 1800 or 1440, change to 2048 or 1536 respectively and install them. This is required to get 2048x1536 and 1920x1440 too.. don't ask why it works

Also it's not that heavy - I can carry it myself relatively easily up 2 or 3 flights of stairs before putting it down for a rest. I'm 18 and haven't built a ton of muscle mass yet to put it in perspective.
 
repoman0 said:
No worries about life expectancy reduction, it won't degrade just sitting in a box, and I dropped my P1130 (rather I put it on a couch and the couch dropped it, it bounced off a coffee table onto the floor) and it works and looks fine. It's got one awesome feature that I just found out about after two years - the thing was starting to look dull and crappy, and in the menu there's a "color return" option that's only available if it's been on for like 30-60 minutes. It was never available for me before and I always forgot about it, but after selecting it, the screen flashed a bunch of different colors and for some reason looked WAY better afterwards once I turned the brightness back up.

BTW - unofficially, it does 1600x1200 @ 100hz, once you get used to that you notice flicker even at 85. Just download the drivers available online and edit the inf - everywhere you see 1800 or 1440, change to 2048 or 1536 respectively and install them. This is required to get 2048x1536 and 1920x1440 too.. don't ask why it works

Also it's not that heavy - I can carry it myself relatively easily up 2 or 3 flights of stairs before putting it down for a rest. I'm 18 and haven't built a ton of muscle mass yet to put it in perspective.
Click to expand...

Excellent info, friend, thanks. Gee willikers, the more I learn about it the better it gets. What's the opposite of buyer's remorse?:D
 
I got my new in box Dell P1130 Trinitron from eBay about 6 months ago. It rocks. It blows away my Gateway 2185W, my laptop TN and my DLP projector. I only paid $165. I also convinced a friend to buy one and he's loving his as well.
 
Scyles said:
I got my new in box Dell P1130 Trinitron from eBay about 6 months ago. It rocks. It blows away my Gateway 2185W, my laptop TN and my DLP projector. I only paid $165. I also convinced a friend to buy one and he's loving his as well.
Click to expand...

Two more days until mine arrives--waiting is so hard!
 
Commander Suzdal said:
This is the part that gets me excited as I wait for the unholy beast to arrive. I bought it solely based on the specs listed in the official description--1600x1200 at 85Hz, Trinitron tube, .24mm dot pitch. I had no idea until I went digging after buying it that the max res. was actually 2048x1536 :eek:, or that it has two VGA inputs and can switch between them with the push of a button, or that several review sites use/used the same model as their reference monitor for benchmarking games. It just gets better and better.

With the way the market is going, I'm sure this will be my last hurrah before LCD. At least I get to go out with a bang, and hopefully it will last long enough for thin-screen technology to improve and prices for good ones to come down. My guess is that I can get 3-4 years out of it if it hasn't lost some of its life expectancy just by sitting in a box for 2 or 3 years, and assuming that it wasn't dropped off the back of a truck or something. Where will LCD/OLED/Motorola carbon nanotube screens be by then? Probably leaps and bounds beyond where they are now.

Like many here, I work on people's computers at my home to earn extra dough from time to time. I don't have a spare monitor for testing and I've never gotten around to getting a KVM switch, so that dual input feature is going to make troubleshooting a lot simpler. No more hopping up and going around behind my desk to swap the monitor back and forth.
Click to expand...

I have some 10 year old CRTs here who are still running. So nice to see the TCO '95 sign on it :p, I think it will still be in great condition after 4 years of use.

But primary is a Samsung 204Ts LCD, what I will replace in the near future, because it sucks (inputlag). I have send the seller of that P1130's an e-mail about shipping costs to Europe.
 
SH1 said:
Color return is an option that adjusts the electronics to compensate for the aging of the tube to restore image quality.
Click to expand...

I was wondering what exactly it did. But yeah it works and it works well.

I only wish it was widescreen.. I've had this for two years, then I switched to a Dell 2407WFP-HC, then back to this because I wanted cash - honestly the 2407 looked better until I used the color return but now this is better in every way except for the 4 inches of size to the side that I lost. And I guess it's not as sharp, but that doesn't really bother me at all. I use 1600x1200 and 7 point font in winamp is still easily readable.

Only thing better would be the Sony FW900 - 22.5 inch viewable trinitron widescreen CRT. But those still go for $350 + used, and at that point I'd just take another 24" LCD.
 
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