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Crossfire vs SLI ouch AT article

Banko said:
Regarding the SLi aa vs SuperAA, isn't NVidia SLi aa method superior image quality wise compared to SuperAA? I swear I read that somewhere.
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Oh please heaven help us please don't say anything like that with ATI people around please I beg you! We will drowning in a sea of posts claiming how ATI has better IQ and the same screenshot comparison posted 50 times over and over then the shimmering freaks will show up and post how nv or ati shimmers more in whatever game.

I can't tell a difference personally and god forbid if Nvidia has better IQ we might lose some members due to heartattacks since they push the ATI = IQ thing hehe.
 
.::MAGE::. said:
Oh please heaven help us please don't say anything like that with ATI people around please I beg you! We will drowning in a sea of posts claiming how ATI has better IQ and the same screenshot comparison posted 50 times over and over then the shimmering freaks will show up and post how nv or ati shimmers more in whatever game.

I can't tell a difference personally and god forbid if Nvidia has better IQ we might lose some members due to heartattacks since they push the ATI = IQ thing hehe.
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Heh no as far as I can remember there is more SuperSampling in NV's SLi aa compared to ATi's SuperAA, I think.
 
there is almost zero difference, unless you break out a magnifying glass and check each pixel

people prefer Adaptive AA on ATI, and people prefer TR SSAA on Nvidia cards, both have their weaknesses, and possitives, none hold true advantage to one another
 
G70 architecture doesn't seem to be designed for these levels of antialiasing. 8XAA is a horrid performer on G70 and SLi 16XAA is thusly a poor performer.

We'll play this back-and-forth IQ game to the end of time. When ATi's IQ starts to slip in favor of performance (it will happen, and probably many times), those who pray to the Red God will begin to slip into the "there's no IQ difference" shoes, while kids who pay homage to the Green Giant will start throwing around the same mantra ATi-and-nothing-else advocates are throwing around now (i.e., the G70 shimmers, stutters, flakes, cracks, pops, turns screens red and anti-aliasing is so bad, it might as well not exist) targeted at ATi's latest and greatest.

Two things really need to be put to rest here. Firstly, the IQ debate needs to fall into a well and starve to death - IQ differences are miniscule, minor, barely existent. ATi's IQ is not "leaps and bounds" nor "a great deal" nor even "a bit" better than nVidia's IQ. If you want to take screenshots and use highly sophisticated, NASA-developed image difference finding algorithms in an attempt to compare IQ, be my guest. I'm going to play some games.

Secondly, the GTX 512 issue also needs to be put to rest. If it's not in stock, you can't buy it, you can't have it - you CAN NOT compare it to other products you can really, truly buy. HardOCP didn't publish the X1800 XT results until it started moving into retail channels and this was done for a remarkably obvious reason. This policy should always remain enforced, no matter what the color of the PCB, but I think nVidia either didn't expect an almost complete out-of-stock result with their darling GTX 512 or simply didn't tell anyone.

I apoligize for this long and somewhat off topic rant, but some things really need to be said.
 
phide said:
G70 architecture doesn't seem to be designed for these levels of antialiasing. 8XAA is a horrid performer on G70 and SLi 16XAA is thusly a poor performer.

We'll play this back-and-forth IQ game to the end of time. When ATi's IQ starts to slip in favor of performance (it will happen, and probably many times), those who pray to the Red God will begin to slip into the "there's no IQ difference" shoes, while kids who pay homage to the Green Giant will start throwing around the same mantra ATi-and-nothing-else advocates are throwing around now (i.e., the G70 shimmers, stutters, flakes, cracks, pops, turns screens red and anti-aliasing is so bad, it might as well not exist) targeted at ATi's latest and greatest.

Two things really need to be put to rest here. Firstly, the IQ debate needs to fall into a well and starve to death - IQ differences are miniscule, minor, barely existent. ATi's IQ is not "leaps and bounds" nor "a great deal" nor even "a bit" better than nVidia's IQ. If you want to take screenshots and use highly sophisticated, NASA-developed image difference finding algorithms in an attempt to compare IQ, be my guest. I'm going to play some games.

Secondly, the GTX 512 issue also needs to be put to rest. If it's not in stock, you can't buy it, you can't have it - you CAN NOT compare it to other products you can really, truly buy. HardOCP didn't publish the X1800 XT results until it started moving into retail channels and this was done for a remarkably obvious reason. This policy should always remain enforced, no matter what the color of the PCB, but I think nVidia either didn't expect an almost complete out-of-stock result with their darling GTX 512 or simply didn't tell anyone.

I apoligize for this long and somewhat off topic rant, but some things really need to be said.
Click to expand...

QFT.
 
.::MAGE::. said:
Doug my carpayment has a tremendous price advantage including insurance over the 512mb GTX hehe I won't disagree it's expensive :).
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That is a classic quote! Really sums up the price of high end cards these days. :D

trimlock said:
there is almost zero difference, unless you break out a magnifying glass and check each pixel

people prefer Adaptive AA on ATI, and people prefer TR SSAA on Nvidia cards, both have their weaknesses, and possitives, none hold true advantage to one another
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I have used both and they both look great. The only advantages I have seen with the ATI solution is 1) There is less of a performance hit. (I was playing HL2 HiDef mod @ 1600 by 1200 everything turned up with 6X AAA and 16X AF. CL_showFPS 1 enabled. My average FPS was over 200FPS. My low was around 40-60FPS. It looks amazing. :cool: That is with X1800 CF and a OC'd dual core A64. The cards were stock clocked.)

2) It is easier to enable in the driver. Just click one check box that is easy to find.

The 2nd is one of my complaints of the NV control panel. Enabling HQ settings can be an easter egg hunt. (SLI AA...do reg hack...edit each profile....etc.) To be unbiased ATI needs a better OC functionality in driver. Try the auto OC on an ATI card... it has never worked right. Also the scale is far to low for X1K. (Almost every XL will max the slider.) The only downside to NV vs ATI on these flaws is that it is easier to get a 3rd party OC tool than a 3rd party IQ tool. Guess both need some work. :rolleyes:


Also one more note. CF seems more CPU limited than SLI. I don't know why but the more CPU you give it the better gains you get Vs the same OC on a SLI system.
 
phide said:
Secondly, the GTX 512 issue also needs to be put to rest. If it's not in stock, you can't buy it, you can't have it - you CAN NOT compare it to other products you can really, truly buy. HardOCP didn't publish the X1800 XT results until it started moving into retail channels and this was done for a remarkably obvious reason. This policy should always remain enforced, no matter what the color of the PCB, but I think nVidia either didn't expect an almost complete out-of-stock result with their darling GTX 512 or simply didn't tell anyone.
Click to expand...

NVIDIA knew.... I talked with XFX before launch. When I asked about availablity they said that they would have "hundreds" at launch. AKA less than a thousand. That is not very many for national sales (If every one went into a SLI system then less than 500 sales) ....but the card is fast. It truely is the X800 XT PE of this round. It exists and for those that get one they rock...but finding them can be next to impossible.
 
AACDIRECT said:
NVIDIA knew.... I talked with XFX before launch. When I asked about availablity they said that they would have "hundreds" at launch. AKA less than a thousand. That is not very many for national sales (If every one went into a SLI system then less than 500 sales) ....but the card is fast. It truely is the X800 XT PE of this round. It exists and for those that get one they rock...but finding them can be next to impossible.
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It can't be the X800XT PE of this round, wait to see the availability of the X1800XT PE (Sapphire is releasing this card) and then decide :D
 
There is basically no visual difference between nvidia and ati. Simple fact is, if you want the fastest setup that you can actually purchase at this time with availability there is only one solution and thats the 7800gtx sli.
 
tornadotsunamilife said:
It can't be the X800XT PE of this round, wait to see the availability of the X1800XT PE (Sapphire is releasing this card) and then decide :D
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The X1800 XT cards are very available. The PE card that Sappihire is going to release is like the OC version of the 256MB GTX. Just at one distributor they had over 900 XT built by ATI XT cards available so I expect that the cards will be no problem to find.

The same distributor has not had a single 512MB 7800 cards. This distributor always has better availablity of NV cards Vs ATI.
 
Shane said:
There is basically no visual difference between nvidia and ati. Simple fact is, if you want the fastest setup that you can actually purchase at this time with availability there is only one solution and thats the 7800gtx sli.
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What? :confused:

Did you not even read [H]'s review of the X1800 cards? Notice the much better AF quality? Its not available for regular consumers now, but X1K cards can do HDR+AA in Farcry with a patch, when NV will not be able to so with current cards.

Why do you say that the 7800 GTX SLI is the fastest that you can buy? You can buy X1800 Master cards, right now. And Crossfire them. And they are faster than 2xGTX 256MB's, and you cant buy 2x512MB's right now. Not to mention, that SLI is far from the fastest in higher AA modes as I have pointed out, no matter which cards are in SLI.
 
Doesn't Serious Sam 2 do HDR FP16 + AA now? I know there was a bug 2 months ago, but if you read the latest SS2 patch he listed HDR for x1xxx as fixed.
 
can someone please tell me why people keep saying taht the X1800 CF stuff is hard to find. I have gotten sick and tired of this so I decided to look.

As of right now (12-21-05), and the last week for a fact they have been in stores. Here is a Crossfire setup from a store all of you have heard of:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102655
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102629
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813136165

Total cost: $1,260.48 shipped

Here is what it is for a 7800 GTX setup

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813136158
2x=
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814130248

Total Cost: $1,096.48 shipped

Here is what it is for a 7800 GTX 512 setup

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813136158
2x=
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143044
which are not in stock

Total Cost: $1663 not shipped
Zipzoomfly, newegg, and mwave did not have the 7800 GTX512 in stock. I cant find them, if you can let me konw but in my opinion the 7800 GTX 512 is no more then vaporware.

The ATI setup is more then availble now. it is only $200 more then a 7800 GTX 256 setup including motherboard.

The 7800 GTX 512 is not availbile anywhere and costs $400 more then the ATI crossfire setup.

I am waiting for my 7800 GTX 512 stepup from evga, if i ever get it I may sell it to some of you nvidia fans so that you can have the fastest card on the market and then I'll go buy me a X1800XT with a crossfire mobo for the same cost of the one videa card.
 
i forget, does SS2 do FP16 HDR?

and yes, the quality of AF on ATI cards is leaps and bounds better, i can definetly tell on my 1800XL from my 6800GT, which from what i read really doesn't have any different filtering methods from the 7800
 
The problem is they are talking about cost of the cards being better with ATi but they miss the fact anyone wanting it probably already has an nvidia SLI board and not the crossfire motherboard...factor in a hidden cost there.
 
tornadotsunamilife said:
It can't be the X800XT PE of this round, wait to see the availability of the X1800XT PE (Sapphire is releasing this card) and then decide :D
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You know in actuality every x1800xt card is EASILY capable of running at that speeds with ati's own supported overdrive?
 
BBA said:
The problem is they are talking about cost of the cards being better with ATi but they miss the fact anyone wanting it probably already has an nvidia SLI board and not the crossfire motherboard...factor in a hidden cost there.
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yeap (like me with a future sli rig ready)

If ati would now just make crossfire work on any dual pcie motherboard......
 
Brent_Justice said:
in an amount of time I cannot disclose come back to this post
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I already told them R580 kicks butt with it's 48 pipes Brent. You're late.
 
spaceman said:
uh oh. flame on...seriously though I would think ATI should just give up on this gen and pour it on for the refresh. mobos and cards. I hope they get their mojo back.
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I had a dream last night that there were warehouses filling up with R580 cards- and they were all the same- that is to say there were no master or slave cards...just cards..they were all created equal. I awoke with a tear in my eye.
 
Here is a nice comparison it even throws in X1800XL's as well and the XL just can't hold any weight. Crossfire may perhaps only be viable for XT owners unlike with SLI you can use whatever card you want almost which is a plus. ATI should have copied NV here the NV system is nice you can use cheapo cards together and a more recent change any vendor as well and bios. ATI hopefully will copy NV in the future with crossfire.

I am looking at FEAR here and if this is any indication of future games on XT crossfire I hope they certainly refine it ALOT. This review just feels more [H] ish to me which is why I am pointing it out.

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=191&type=expert

Beyond3D had a nice comparison between the ATI cards only and threw in a last gen card too which was nice.
 
.::MAGE::. said:
I am looking at FEAR here and if this is any indication of future games on XT crossfire I hope they certainly refine it ALOT. This review just feels more [H] ish to me which is why I am pointing it out.
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Cat 5.13 supposedly fixes the FEAR problem with crossfire.

This is afterall the first crossfire benches with the x1800xt. I'd say they are pretty good.
 
Netrat33 said:
Cat 5.13 supposedly fixes the FEAR problem with crossfire.

This is afterall the first crossfire benches with the x1800xt. I'd say they are pretty good.
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They aren't craptastic no but if it isn't resolved in one or two driver releases performance isn't going to get better.

This is usually the case with anything.
 
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