Crossfire Opinions

[^eMpTy^]

What are your initial impressions of Crossfire (of course everything will change later, but it's fun to see what everyone's thinking)...

 

[tranCendenZ]

the fact that it needs a master card instead of just using two x800 cards is going to make the price skyrocket on crossfire cards since it is going to be a very limited market. also, the external link cable is a messy solution.

Super AA is nice but then again if you are buying this card it is probably to run the latest games, most of which can't run with more than 4xAA/16xAF at 1600x1200 even with dual cards in SLI and still maintain 60fps. Not to mention that anything more than Nvidia's 8xS (2xSSAA + 4xMSAA) probably would not make much difference at 1600x1200, the "super" AA modes would mainly be for older games or games that run at lower resolution I'd think. A nice feature, but probably one that was put in there to make up for the deficiencies of Crossfire (external link, master/slave setup, not as efficient as SLI from early benchmarks).

I am hoping R520 crossfire has an internal link and does not require a special card so there is a chance of getting both cards at a reasonable price.

The best part of crossfire seems to be no game profiles, but then again if certain methods (AFR, scissor, supertiling) only work on certain games as with Nvidia SLI, then you will have to make profiles anyway because manually switching before each game is an even bigger pain.

 

[pandora's box]

only thing im concerned about is the ati motherboard part.

 

[^eMpTy^]

only thing im concerned about is the ati motherboard part.

Personally that's the thing for me too...I would happily switch over to ATi if they came out with the better product...and R520 may be that product...but basing my entire system on an unknown quantity...yeah...I think I'll hang back and let their drivers and chipsets mature a little more...that stuff over at anand about the southbridge doesn't really give me a warm fuzzy feeling...

 

[R1ckCa1n]

only thing im concerned about is the ati motherboard part.

Go check out extremsystems forums and see how ATI's boards perform. You will be pleasantly surprised.

 

[USMC2Hard4U]

ATi Chipsets... Yuck

Not that their bad. But they are unproven....

 

[Brent_Justice]

also, the external link cable is a messy solution.

not as efficient as SLI from early benchmarks

Could you elaborate on those two points a bit further? Thanks

The best part of crossfire seems to be no game profiles, but then again if certain methods (AFR, scissor, supertiling) only work on certain games as with Nvidia SLI, then you will have to make profiles anyway because manually switching before each game is an even bigger pain.

Catalyst AI automatically sets the best rendering mode, no user interaction is required.

 

[BullseyeBob]

I can't pick any of the retarded poll options.

 

[^eMpTy^]

I can't pick any of the retarded poll options.

why not? I mean hell, feel free to just comment...

admittedly I don't make the best polls...

 

[Brent_Justice]

Personally I thought the poll was fair.

 

[tranCendenZ]

Could you elaborate on those two points a bit further? Thanks.

well, from this early benchmark:
http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=article&dId=771

The X850XT Crossfire loses to the 6800U SLI in 3dmark05

But when the x850xt faces off the 6800U in 3dmark05 using only single cards, the X850XT beats it by quite a margin:
http://www.pcmoddingmy.com/content.php?review.220.4

This implies that Crossfire at least at this point isn't performing as well as SLI.

As for the external connector, a small internal bridge is always preferable to an external loopback cable which requires more space and doesn't look as nice.

Catalyst AI automatically sets the best rendering mode, no user interaction is required.

Since Catalyst AI in the past has relied on app detection for its optimizations, its a very real possibility that Catalyst AI has Crossfire "profiles" or detection schemes for current games builtin and hidden from the user. Hence its possible future games may experience the same glitches SLI would without a driver update.

 

[BullseyeBob]

lol

 

[myktek]

reminds me so much of my old Diamond Monster 2 Voodoo 2 ... =) and i still have it, i wonder if i can add it to the Crossfire setup.... LOL

 

[sleepeeg3]

Go check out extremsystems forums and see how ATI's boards perform. You will be pleasantly surprised.

They have boards? Kidding. I'm using the ECS RS480-M, which just came out and is probably the best overclocker with their logo on it that is for sale! Limited by a glorious 1.55vc, 2.7vdimm and 250HTT! Too bad it's the best you can get in 939 mATX form factor for AMD. Suckit.

Crossfire was put out there simply to deny nVidia the bragging rights. Was it a stupid solution? You betcha. Does anybody really use Crossfire or SLI? Not really. I will bet you less than 1/10th of a percent of the people on the forums use SLI right now. Last I looked there was only 1 person on EOCF (15,000+ members) that was on the 3DMark05 top 15 list, with a dual card solution.

I don't think ATi ever really wanted to put out a dual card product, but they thought they had to bring this imaginary performance crown back on their side. They should have just opted out instead of wasting resources on such a pointless exercise. Who cares which company has the fastest 20 cards linked together? That's not improving technology. The government already had ATi & nVidia multi-card systems, long before nVidia resurrected "SLi" from 3Dfx's long dead ashes. The average enthusiast is going to buy one card and that will be the fastest one out there. That is what matters.

 

[Brent_Justice]

well, from this early benchmark:
http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=article&dId=771

The X850XT Crossfire loses to the 6800U SLI in 3dmark05

But when the x850xt faces off the 6800U in 3dmark05 using only single cards, the X850XT beats it by quite a margin:
http://www.pcmoddingmy.com/content.php?review.220.4

This implies that Crossfire at least at this point isn't performing as well as SLI.

Thanks

While the 3DMark results are interesting I personally wouldn't put much faith into them in measuring the efficiency of ATI's CrossFire. I would look to real games to see if SLI or CrossFire comes out on top.

As for the external connector, a small internal bridge is always preferable to an external loopback cable which requires more space and doesn't look as nice.

I guess that's more of a cosmetic thing. Since it is behind your computer at least it's out of sight.

Since Catalyst AI in the past has relied on app detection for its optimizations, its a very real possibility that Catalyst AI has Crossfire "profiles" or detection schemes for current games builtin and hidden from the user. Hence its possible future games may experience the same glitches SLI would without a driver update.

It's very possible there are profiles or app detection going on behind the scenes. However, if a certain game does not have a pre-programmed mode to operate in then it will by default use SuperTiling in D3D and Scissor in OGL, in every single game.

Right now by default with SLI if there is no profile telling the driver to use AFR or SFR in a game the default is no SLI at all.

 

[Deadlierchair]

SLI...Crossfire...both solutions mean roughly doubling the price of your system. Yeah, the performance is awesome, but it will cost you a grand to get the best out there! Then we start thinking about the 512 mb cards that are coming and things certainly don't get cheaper.

I realize that SLI isn't a 'standard' by any means, let's just hope that it doesn't become one. I thought it was crazy to spend $500 on one card and have the best, but now I would have to spend twice that to gain the same title? No thanks...

Just as a note, I know why people would use SLI, please don't lecture me, I'm just saying it's sort of a burden to the enthusiast that doesn't have the means to throw $1000 into his/her video card setup alone. Hopefully they will continue producing evolutionary single card setups at a more reasonable price.

 

[Major_A]

It has been stated before and I'll say it again... Whoever holds the speed crown will sell more of their cards throughout their product line. Joe/Jane casual gamer are going to pick up a brand they have heard is the fastest even if it is a lower end card.

Look at it this way, what wins on Sunday sales on Monday (old racing saying).

 

[Apple740]

the external link cable is a messy solution.

Actually, that dongle helps in reorganizing all the cable mess behind a pc. You can put them all together through the loop. Nice job Ati

 

[fallguy]

You know someone is just trying to find something wrong, when complaining about a cable being "messy" behind the PC. Take a look back there, its already messy.

 

[coolie_d]

"too early to tell, i'm still undecided" to the poll choices..... that would be my vote....

 

[^eMpTy^]

Actually, that dongle helps in reorganizing all the cable mess behind a pc. You can put them all together through the loop. Nice job Ati

rofl

 

[Dr. X]

It's very possible there are profiles or app detection going on behind the scenes. However, if a certain game does not have a pre-programmed mode to operate in then it will by default use SuperTiling in D3D and Scissor in OGL, in every single game.

Right now by default with SLI if there is no profile telling the driver to use AFR or SFR in a game the default is no SLI at all.

So what? You can make a profile for any game you want. I don't really see the advantage of having it hands-off. I mean, it's not like grandma is going to be sitting there with her SLi setup not being able to figure out how to make a profile.

 

[Skrying]

So what? You can make a profile for any game you want. I don't really see the advantage of having it hands-off. I mean, it's not like grandma is going to be sitting there with her SLi setup not being able to figure out how to make a profile.

But rich boy who likes his HL2/Doom 3 at the max settings has no clue what to do.

 

[Brent_Justice]

So what? You can make a profile for any game you want. I don't really see the advantage of having it hands-off. I mean, it's not like grandma is going to be sitting there with her SLi setup not being able to figure out how to make a profile.

With the ATI setup you don't even have to think about it. Just enable it and go, theoretically.

With NV's SLI if there is no profile then you have to enable either AFR or SFR. But how do you know except through trial-and-error which mode is best for the game you are playing? What if one mode actually slows it down? What it causes glitches? You are aware that there are actually flags NV can set that attach to each mode that run the modes differently which they have to in a lot of games. Read through the nvapps file and you will see a lot of games set with modes that are not straight SFR or AFR. This means more work for the gamer to figure out what works best, if they even know how to.

With ATI's CrossFire supposedly there will be no effort on the user at all, simply enable it and game.

 

[USMC2Hard4U]

With the ATI setup you don't even have to think about it. Just enable it and go, theoretically.

With NV's SLI if there is no profile then you have to enable either AFR or SFR. But how do you know except through trial-and-error which mode is best for the game you are playing? What if one mode actually slows it down? What it causes glitches? You are aware that there are actually flags NV can set that attach to each mode that run the modes differently which they have to in a lot of games. Read through the nvapps file and you will see a lot of games set with modes that are not straight SFR or AFR. This means more work for the gamer to figure out what works best, if they even know how to.

With ATI's CrossFire supposedly there will be no effort on the user at all, simply enable it and game.

Why cant you just leave "crossfire" enabled all the time? Why do you have to check the box to turn it on.... Just leave it on...

 

[Brent_Justice]

Why cant you just leave "crossfire" enabled all the time? Why do you have to check the box to turn it on.... Just leave it on...

You can leave it enabled all the time. You install your crossfire hardware and the drivers, then enable it, and you don't even have to reboot. You can game from then on without any interaction on your part.

I feel like i'm repeating myself, heh.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

You can leave it enabled all the time. You install your crossfire hardware and the drivers, then enable it, and you don't even have to reboot. You can game from then on without any interaction on your part.

I feel like i'm repeating myself, heh.

And across multiple threads. Some people will not beleive anything other than what they are programmed to understand.

 

[PRIME1]

You can leave it enabled all the time. You install your crossfire hardware and the drivers, then enable it, and you don't even have to reboot. You can game from then on without any interaction on your part.

I feel like i'm repeating myself, heh.

If they let you disable it, that means there is the possibility that "crossfire" mode may actually make some games slower or more crash prone. Why else would you want to disable it?

 

[Dr. X]

And across multiple threads. Some people will not beleive anything other than what they are programmed to understand.

And what are you believing other than what some marketing department is programming you to understand? Do you have a crossfire setup?

 

[Brent_Justice]

If they let you disable it, that means there is the possibility that "crossfire" mode may actually make some games slower or more crash prone. Why else would you want to disable it?

you all are making this too complicated for yourselves

here is a picture of what the menu looks like in CCC http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2432&p=9

btw, you can disable and enable SLI in the drivers for NV SLI as well, but you have to reboot

 

[pandora's box]

why do i sense certain people are trying to find a flaw in crossfires design? quite frankly its perfect compared to SLi.

 

[Hate_Bot]

If they let you disable it, that means there is the possibility that "crossfire" mode may actually make some games slower or more crash prone. Why else would you want to disable it?

Maybe, just to let people desable it? Say one card breaks for whatever reason.

I mean, wow, you fan boys are rediculous. "hmm.. they let us disable a feature, so that MUST mean that in alot of games it sucks" But since its ATI, OBVIOUSLY Crossfire is so flawed, that youd see a decrease in game performance with TWO ATI Cards


FYI, in your SLI drivers, theres also a button, it switches between "SLI and Non SLI Mode". since its there, the devs obviously put it there, because in alot of games, 2 cards worsen performance!

 

[Dr. X]

why do i sense certain people are trying to find a flaw in crossfires design? quite frankly its perfect compared to SLi.

I would say in some regards it is an improvement, and in some the opposite. But both nvidia's and ati's solutions are far from perfect.

For example, the lack of profiles is a definite plus, though I'm skeptical how it will work with future game releases that come out after a driver revision. This could be a problem just as nvidia's profiles are.

Also, the supertiling mode is a plus. More options are always better.

On the other hand, I definitely don't like the idea of the "master" card which personally I feel is inferior to using two regular cards. Or the external cabling which is definitely an inferior design.

 

[{NG}Fidel]

On the other hand, I definitely don't like the idea of the "master" card which personally I feel is inferior to using two regular cards. Or the external cabling which is definitely an inferior design

Could you elaborate on those two points please.
Personaly I dont see why its inderior. I see it more so as just diffrent.

 

[{NG}Fidel]

So what? You can make a profile for any game you want. I don't really see the advantage of having it hands-off. I mean, it's not like grandma is going to be sitting there with her SLi setup not being able to figure out how to make a profile.

Dont be so blind !!!!!!stic Dr.X.
I think its rather obvious how having the two cards just work is better than you having to do the work.

 

[Gorankar]

If they let you disable it, that means there is the possibility that "crossfire" mode may actually make some games slower or more crash prone. Why else would you want to disable it?

perhaps, so you can go back to multimonitor when your not gaming..

 

[Skrying]

perhaps, so you can go back to multimonitor when your not gaming..

Dual monitors works with Crossfire, it doesnt with SLI.

 

[PRIME1]

I mean, wow, you fan boys are rediculous. "hmm.. they let us disable a feature, so that MUST mean that in alot of games it sucks" But since its ATI, OBVIOUSLY Crossfire is so flawed, that youd see a decrease in game performance with TWO ATI Cards

Now, calm down. When it's released next year maybe we will find out

Since none of us have a production system in our hands, anything we say is pure speculation.

I have a feeling the next few days of computex are going to set the NVIDIA vs ATI threads on fire. (G70, R520, SLI2, etc.)

 

[Skrying]

I would say in some regards it is an improvement, and in some the opposite. But both nvidia's and ati's solutions are far from perfect.

For example, the lack of profiles is a definite plus, though I'm skeptical how it will work with future game releases that come out after a driver revision. This could be a problem just as nvidia's profiles are.

Also, the supertiling mode is a plus. More options are always better.

On the other hand, I definitely don't like the idea of the "master" card which personally I feel is inferior to using two regular cards. Or the external cabling which is definitely an inferior design.

The Catalyst picks based on rendering type (D3D/OpenGL).

Also, what makes the master card so bad? If you have a card right now you can simply buy the master. If you want to pick up two just buy one regular one master. Oh noes!! Look, its just as simple as SLI, but I dont want to hear it!

Also, the external cable is really an IMO. I would rather have that than not be able to use dual monitor. And plus its not bad at all IMO, you never see it, plug it in and wham, and its not its 5 feet long people. Its only like 3 inches at most....

Some of you just cant be happy unless its stamped with a certain brand name on it.

So far I've only seen a few point out a flaw in Crossfire that cant be dismissed or is up to someones personal opinon.

 

[PRIME1]

Also, what makes the master card so bad? If you have a card right now you can simply buy the master. If you want to pick up two just buy one regular one master. Oh noes!! Look, its just as simple as SLI, but I dont want to hear it!

Also, the external cable is really an IMO. I would rather have that than not be able to use dual monitor. And plus its not bad at all IMO, you never see it, plug it in and wham, and its not its 5 feet long people. Its only like 3 inches at most....

Most people are pointing out that because of a limited need for the "master" card it will be more expensive than a standard card. Instead of just using 2 regular priced cards.

And IMO the "dongle" sucks. But then I am always dealing with cable nightmares.