Critique My Build

[kiwi32]

Hey Everyone,

I will be putting together a system soon. I will use it to run vmware most of the time but i would also play a few games here and there.

I hope to build a quiet and efficient system so I would really like to have a 45nm chip for the extra power/heat savings. But i wonder if the Q9450 is worth it? It does have a lot more cache... I have gathered parts that I would like under 2 systems; an Ideal and a cost saving.

8800 GT 512mb - http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3538922&Sku=E145-8832
Western Digital 500gb HDD - http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2795126&Sku=TSD-500AAKS
Sony DVD/CD - http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3569869&Sku=S167-4514
Antec 182 case - http://www.jumbocomputers.ca/index.php?do=Product&cmd=pd&pid=000977&cid=812.350.500
Corsair DDR2 - http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2206874&Sku=C13-2022


The 8800GT is reaching the end of its long overdue lifecycle but at $200 it seems a great deal and with no real successor out i dont see why not (putting 2 into 1 and calling it another name doesnt count in my books).

I know this question must be asked far too often but how do I make a wise powersupply and ram choice. I dont know much about either... the ram honestly outright confuses me with all the timings and latencies. As far as power supplies go I have heard great things about seasonic.

 

[engiNURD]

Long lifecycle for the 8800GT? Its like 4 months old! The 8800GTS G80 went a year without an update. The 8800GTX hasn't even been replaced yet, and its been well over a year.

You chose an X38/X48 board in both of your builds, yet you have no intention of going Crossfire. That doesn't make sense to me. The only reason to choose an X38 or X48 board is for Crossfire in full dual 16x. PCI-E2.0 you say? The only difference between PCI-E2.0 and PCI-E1.x is the increased power delivery through the slot and the increased bandwidth. PCI-E2.0 cards are backwards compatible with PCI-E1.x slots. However, current PCI-E2.0 cards do not saturate the bandwidth of PCI-E1.x slots. Therefore, theres no point in spending a huge amount of money for the sole purpose of getting a PCI-E2.0 slot right now. By the time PCI-E2.0 cards are severely limited by the lower bandwidth of the PCI-E1.x slots, it will be time for a new motherboard anyhow (by which time PCI-E3.x will be out; which would put you back into the same predicament).

/*------------- <cut n paste> -------------*/
Formulas for Intel platform @ 1:1 settings: (base FSB speed is SDR, or single data rate)
c × [Base FSB speed] = CPU Clock speed (c = CPU Multiplier)
2 × [Base FSB speed] = RAM speed (DDR: double data rate)
4 × [Base FSB speed] = Effective FSB speed (QDR: quad data rate)

On Intel platforms, running the RAM higher than a 1:1 ratio with the CPU is, for the most part, useless, so don't bother trying to do so. If the BIOS does it for you, just let it. All you need is a 1:1 config, though. Here's some possible clock speeds (as always with OC'ing, your results will vary):

Q6600: 9 × 266 = 2.4Ghz, DDR2-533 << STOCK speeds
Q6600: 9 × 333 = 3.0Ghz, DDR2-667 << Nice OC
Q6600: 9 × 378 = 3.4Ghz, DDR2-756 << Good OC, near max for B3 stepping w/ good air cooling
Q6600: 9 × 400 = 3.6Ghz, DDR2-800 << Great OC, near max for G0 stepping w/ good air cooling

Q9450: 8 × 333 = 2.6Ghz, DDR2-667 << STOCK speeds
Q9450: 8 × 400 = 3.2Ghz, DDR2-800 << Modest OC
Q9450: 8 × 450 = 3.6Ghz, DDR2-900 << Good OC
Q9450: 8 × 500 = 4.0Ghz, DDR2-1000 << Not sure if any board out right now can handle such high FSB overclocking with a quadcore.
/*------------- </cut n paste> -------------*/

You won't notice a difference between CL4 and CL5, unless you're running benchmarks (and even then, the difference is negligible), so don't pay a huge price premium for lower latency.

$140 for 4GB of RAM is way overpriced. Also, if you want 4GB, go for 2x2GB -- less stress on the MCH and less potential problems, especially if OC'ing. 4GB should cost you, at most, $120, and thats for high speed G.Skill DR2-1000. If you get the Q6600, all you need is DDR2-800.

For any single vidcard system, the Corsair (Seasonic built) 520W or 550W would be ideal. If you want more headroom, then the 620W or 650W would be good. If you want SLI/Crossfire, go with a good quality 750W PSU, like the PC P&C 750 QUAD or Corsair TX 750W.

 

[kiwi32]

thanks for the info you've cleared up a few things for me.

I dont have any intention of sli or crossfire and I prefer the intel chipsets over say a 780i. The ram prices are high because I did not account for the rebates.

 

[Markyip1]

Enginurd has you covered on this one. If power efficiency is important, the Q9450 will be of value to you. However, factor that at launch, it will be about $100 more expensive than a Q6600.

 

[Dangman]

I dont have any intention of sli or crossfire and I prefer the intel chipsets over say a 780i. The ram prices are high because I did not account for the rebates.

Never count rebates until they're actually in your hands. Rebates have a high probability of going through but it is not a guaranteed discount. And enginurd is right, $140 is way too much for 4GB of RAM. Especially since you can get them for cheaper:
G.SKILL F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ 2 x 2GB DDR2 800 RAM - $90
G.SKILL F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ 2 x 2GB DDR2 1000 RAM - $100

Also, note that the OEM model of the Q6660, in fact with any Intel CPU, only comes with a 90-day warranty. The retail models comes with a 3-year warranty. Just an FYI.

 

[engiNURD]

The ram prices are high because I did not account for the rebates.

The prices I quoted were WITHOUT rebates. G.Skill DDR2-1000 RAM is only $115, without rebates. Actually, its even cheaper now:

$100 - G.SKILL 4GB(2x2GB) DDR2-1000 F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ

If you only need DDR2-800:

$77 - A-Data 4GB(2x2GB) DDR2-800 ADQVE1B16K

Either of those RAM kits will be good for your build, depending on which CPU you choose.

X38 is just as stable and OC friendly as P35, but has a price premium because its the enthusiast chipset. If you don't need Crossfire, drop down to a P35 board instead. Check out the Asus P5K-E (WiFi), Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3P or DS4, and the crowd favorite, Abit IP35 Pro.

 

[kiwi32]

Well hopefully any possible manufacturing defects will be found within 3 months... I dont see much value in the 3 year warentee. lol *crosses fingers*

Thank for the great advice enginurd! I will look into those boards. the reason I picked the x38/x48 boards was if I ever do want dual GPU down the line it would be two crossfire cards

I live in toronto, canada so newegg is useless to me unfotunately. Anyone know where to get that ram at those prices here above the border?

 

[Markyip1]

It is very, very rare to get a defective processor. Also, note that if you overclock, your processor's warranty is technically void. Lastly, note that some believe retail batches are easier to OC than OEM.

 

[kiwi32]

Lastly, note that some believe retail batches are easier to OC than OEM.

How could that be, are they not identical asides from packaging?

 

[Markyip1]

They are not identical. It's all about the binning process, which is quite complex. I'm not going to go into a full explanation here, but certainly google for information if you're interested. The short of it is that an Intel processor is tested and speed binned before being sold as a particular chip. This means, for example, that you don't have a Q6600 manufacturing process and a separate QX6850 manufacturering process. Instead, you have one manufacturing process where chips that test very well are binned and sold as QX6850s while chips that don't test as well are binned as Q6600s.

Part of this binning process is to assign chips to particular batches within their product line. Now, while batches are based on production date and sale method (oem/retail) rather than direct chip quality, batch information is still often used to predict OC potential, as two chips from the same batch will likely perform similarly. If you're going to OC, there are two reasons to consider buying a retail chip. First is that some believe that chips from retail batches perform better than chips from OEM batches. I can not confirm this by any means, since I've never played with a Core 2 OEM chip. Second is that there is far more community data on how well chips from retail batches will perform than chips from OEM batches. If your serious about OCing and are having trouble, you'll be able to at least predict your success based upon what others have done with chips from the same batch. However, you'll find that the vast majority of OC data on recent Intel Core 2 chips concerns chips from retail batches only.

 

[kiwi32]

After reading up on it I guess they are not the same but only because they may belong to different batches... I honestly think it is a myth that retail is always better than oem. I could not find a single piece of concrete proof. Its all a bunch of speculation from what I could find. Pretty much every descussion had ppl saying go retail for the sole reason of better be safe than sorry. Unless of course u get a worse version in the retail box

I dare someone to prove me wrong

 

[Dangman]

I live in toronto, canada so newegg is useless to me unfotunately. Anyone know where to get that ram at those prices here above the border?

Totally missed those Canadian links at the bottom of your first post.

Anyway, as you have already figured out, you will be paying more for RAM then Americans will. However, a quick search on NCIX.com yielded this pretty decent priced set of 4GB of DDR2 800 RAM:
Mushkin EM PC2-6400 4GB 2X2GB DDR2-800 RAM - $90 CAD

 

[kiwi32]

Thanks for the link Danny!

Anyone know of any good online hardware retailers for canada? here's my list:
tigerdirect.ca
ncix.com

large selection... i know lol

 

[engiNURD]

directcanada.com
canadacomputers.com

Sorry, I missed those same canadian links at the bottom of your OP. In which case, I guess your RAM is appropriately priced, lol. Mah bad.

As far as binning goes, nobody cares to prove you wrong. They'd rather spend the extra $20 on the retail version instead of taking that chance. If you're near a Microcenter, the retail Q6600 is only $200 (sorry, I don't think there are any in Canada).